Do attendees of N.O. love the Mass like TLMers love the TLM?

[maggieodae]

I grew up with the NO, when I was born the TLM was long gone. I went to my first TLM on quinquagesima sunday and again last sunday.

For the congregation, because of the focus on participation in the new mass itself, there’s very little time where you’re not “scripted” to do something. Also, there’s a lot of “customization” ability that the priest has with the mass; many choices available for this, that is optional, the other can be done a few different ways, etc.

The old mass is almost the opposite on both accounts: the congregation has a lot of time in between actions or responses, due to the mass itself not focussing on participation. And the priest’s actions and words are strictly “rubricized”: there is no customizability, so yuo get the same thing every time.

Sorry…But I lived the TLM. The time during and between was spent day dreaming by most, if not going out to the vestibule for a cigarette break. …Sheese! Dream on dreamer.

Growing up with the new mass, because everything is so heavily scripted, there is no time for personalization between you and God. People say that the “audience” participation is the personalization of the mass with the people, but I don’t really think so. All of the actions, responses, prayers, etc. become automatic and robotic, and your mind would be off somewhere else.

In other words…there is no difference. You either focus on God or yourself.

I don’t know how many times the lector would read from scripture, “The Lord be with you…” and up to half of the congregation would all of a sudden say, “and also with you…” There’s very little in between where we can meditate on the mass itself.

Wish I had a nickle for the times in the TLM all the little old ladies were too busy saying the rosary, to notice to respond to anything. OH! And lest you think their rosary was all that devote… They would say one HM and then you got to hear them say…The same, the same the same…for their next 9 Hail Mary’s, instead of the actual prayer.

In the TLM this is the opposite. I found that whatever few responses we have, it’s not robotic and automatic. And there’s plenty of time where you can meditate on the mass itself, the particular liturgy isn’t formed to “keep us busy” or “engaged” from beginning to end. I found the time to say one of the prayers before communion, something I couldn’t do before.

It sounds odd, but the mass that requires more participation lets my mind wander whereas the mass with the least for me to do I stay focussed.

Good for you…

This is all just my personal opinion and preferences. Both masses are valid. Same as others like different kinds of ice cream, I like the TLM. I’m a vanilla kinda guy

I’m just old and tired of the silliness. If you like the TLM (and I do too) Good for you. But if your basing the Mass on your own wants and desires…then, as with all of us, you need to focus more on Christ than yourself…

 

[Unitas]

if your basing the Mass on your own wants and desires…then, as with all of us, you need to focus more on Christ than yourself…

Both the new mass and the TLM are valid masses. So yes, it does come down to preference. I like the fact that I can focus more on prayer (not myself) and not so much on droning out the next response on cue. I don’t think that is a bad “want” to have.

I merely provided my opinions and I apologize if my subjective perceptions are somehow wrong.

But thank you for your kind response.

 

[sing]

I am an oldster. I was around the frist time when the Latin Mass was it, period. A lot of people who are relatively young see the Latin Mass through the lens of “oldways are better”. But the Old Latin Mass was not a wonderful thing, “participating” by saying your rosary, while the Mass was independent of the congegation and the Priest and altar boys had “their Mass”.

I prefer English where I can understand everyword.

I would like it if the English Mass was more reverent in the English used, more like the Douai-Rheims or KJV English.

But still a Mass is a Mass, they are all the sacrifice of Our Lord.

I grew up going to a Latin Mass, so even though I’m young(19), I think I know what you mean. And I agree.

 

[LilyM]

Sorry…But I lived the TLM. The time during and between was spent day dreaming by most, if not going out to the vestibule for a cigarette break. …Sheese! Dream on dreamer.
In other words…there is no difference. You either focus on God or yourself.
Wish I had a nickle for the times in the TLM all the little old ladies were too busy saying the rosary, to notice to respond to anything. OH! And lest you think their rosary was all that devote… They would say one HM and then you got to hear them say…The same, the same the same…for their next 9 Hail Mary’s, instead of the actual prayer.

Good for you…
I’m just old and tired of the silliness. If you like the TLM (and I do too) Good for you. But if your basing the Mass on your own wants and desires…then, as with all of us, you need to focus more on Christ than yourself…

Amen! Preach it maggie.

My parents and all of their friends, who include numerous priests and nuns, were well into adulthood by the time the TLM changed to the NO. I’ve talked to them about it and heard from them all about it reasonably extensively. I’ve even lived through some of the changes in my own lifetime - I remember patens and communion on the tongue as a youngster, and a slow decline in the quality of music too.

I don’t know a single one of 'em, however, who preferred it to the NO. Which makes me think, as you do, maggie, that what you get out of any given Mass is precisely what you put into it. PROVIDED that you don’t walk into it with your head full of the patently ridiculous idea that anything matters except you and Christ on the altar. Not the distractions provided by your fellow parishioners, not even the priest, provided he is performing the Mass validly.

 

[SnorterLuster]

Amen! Preach it maggie.

My parents and all of their friends, who include numerous priests and nuns, were well into adulthood by the time the TLM changed to the NO. I’ve talked to them about it and heard from them all about it reasonably extensively.

------snip-------------

I don’t know a single one of 'em, however, who preferred it to the NO.

Lily, everytime you use this story, I can’t help but think of the story going around after Nixon beat McGovern. This quote is from a Google cache.

This arrogant mind-set is reminiscent of theater critic Pauline Kael’s reaction to Richard Nixon’s landslide presidential victory over George McGovern in 1972" “How can that be?” she supposedly said. “No one I know voted for Nixon.”

Anyway, I find your assertion that nobody you knew want to go back to the TLM humorous, not arrogant.

 

[rtconstant]

I love anywhere where Our Lord is made present.

 

[kell0618]

Plain and simple for me: I love and adore Christ and He is my solitary focus of Mass attendance. I love to attend Mass; period.

[side vent]And personally, I grow a bit tired of so many people assuming all NO Masses/churches are created equally. Generalizations are a dangerous thing about any subject.

My NO parish is over 150 years old and the tabernacle is front and center and kneelers abound. The old oak pews squeak from exhaustion every time you sit. Latin or English, Christ is still present in the Most Holy Eucharist.

:twocents:

Kelly

 

[InLight247]

I can’t believe that people would push the envelope and not go to mass on sunday if it is not their normal peference. Mass is not about us. The beauty of the mass is the sacrifice. You should go ever sunday no matter what. Your Lord died for you…the least you can do is so him some respect by seeing him once a week (well more if you can!)

I have personal enjoyed the NO mass, The latin mass and the anglican use mass, (never been to TLM mass)…I see the beauty of the mass wherever i go. They are all beautiful because they have Jesus at the center of the mass. The beauty is that i am forgiven for my impefection by the death of the umblemished Lamb.

You are so right. Mass is not about us, it is about Christ.
The format, the music, and other details should not be the emphasis. I also am shocked that people even could have the idea of not going to Mass if it is not TLM.

 

[thechrismyster]

Many TLM will only attend or drive for hundreds miles to worship the Lord at a TLM Mass. I drive 45minutes one way to the TLM and I bet I must pass a ½ dozen NO parishes on the way there. Traditionalist will even push to the envelope Church Laws in not attending a NO mass is a TLM is not avail…

Do No attendees feel the same way about their Mass?

What would happen if it radically changed or as replaced?

Are we Catholic adults or are we 15 year olds talking about which high school is the best?

The traditional Catholicism forum board has a cadence that goes something like this…

“My football team is better than yours!!”

OH YEAH?"

“YEAH!”

“NUH UH! WE’RE THE BEST”

“NO! WE ARE”

I come in here not to fight, but for the comedic transparent caricature I see in almost every thread.

 

[Uxor]

I grew up with the NO, when I was born the TLM was long gone. I went to my first TLM on quinquagesima sunday and again last sunday.

For the congregation, because of the focus on participation in the new mass itself, there’s very little time where you’re not “scripted” to do something. Also, there’s a lot of “customization” ability that the priest has with the mass; many choices available for this, that is optional, the other can be done a few different ways, etc.

The old mass is almost the opposite on both accounts: the congregation has a lot of time in between actions or responses, due to the mass itself not focussing on participation. And the priest’s actions and words are strictly “rubricized”: there is no customizability, so yuo get the same thing every time.

Growing up with the new mass, because everything is so heavily scripted, there is no time for personalization between you and God. People say that the “audience” participation is the personalization of the mass with the people, but I don’t really think so. All of the actions, responses, prayers, etc. become automatic and robotic, and your mind would be off somewhere else.

I don’t know how many times the lector would read from scripture, “The Lord be with you…” and up to half of the congregation would all of a sudden say, “and also with you…” There’s very little in between where we can meditate on the mass itself.

In the TLM this is the opposite. I found that whatever few responses we have, it’s not robotic and automatic. And there’s plenty of time where you can meditate on the mass itself, the particular liturgy isn’t formed to “keep us busy” or “engaged” from beginning to end. I found the time to say one of the prayers before communion, something I couldn’t do before.

It sounds odd, but the mass that requires more participation lets my mind wander whereas the mass with the least for me to do I stay focussed.

This is all just my personal opinion and preferences. Both masses are valid. Same as others like different kinds of ice cream, I like the TLM. I’m a vanilla kinda guy

I agree…There is too much activity with the NO Mass and never time for quiet reflection or silent prayer. And Holy Communion requires proper interior disposition.

 

[maggieodae]

I agree…There is too much activity with the NO Mass and never time for quiet reflection or silent prayer. And Holy Communion requires proper interior disposition.

Again …that is a generalization. My parish is a VERY orthodox NO parish. There is no chatting or goofy things going on. We have plenty of time for reflection, which is done is beautifully and silently.

Our school children know Latin, Spanish and Italian. So do many of our parishioners. So let’s not be painting with such a broad brush. You obviously have not attended all the NO Masses in the world.

 

[Uxor]

You are so right. Mass is not about us, it is about Christ.
The format, the music, and other details should not be the emphasis. I also am shocked that people even could have the idea of not going to Mass if it is not TLM.

I went 30 years attending NO Masses to the point, it almost drove me to leaving the Church permanently, I couldn’t take it anymore. The last Mass I attended a girl carried the Eurcharist back with her. I feel blessed to have found a Church that offers the Tridentine Mass. It is wonderful! The sanctifying grace I receive is so abundant, discernment to clearly see myself, protection, the joy and peace and happiness I feel all through the week. The people at the Parish, all one big family. We pray together and eat together. We have a blast. We don’t attack the NO Mass or other parishes. I enjoy being able to go to Confession, everyday if I want, being able to talk to my Priest anytime, not about money, it is about my soul. The Priest cares about my sanctification and holiness. Our Priests work hard 24/7 for us even go out and eat with us. They do confessions everyday, 2 Masses, teach classes they constantly work hard and are always available. I called a Priest yesterday because I’m a committed Adorer at my old parish, I’ve yet to hear from him. LOL I’m glad I didnt’ need last rites.

 

[awalt]

Mass is Mass to me and I shall continue to follow Rome.

Boy do I agree with this.

Actually an emotion has come over me for awhile now, that there is so much passion, sometimes tension and persecution in these conversations about the Masses.

The Mass is the basis for us to receive a sacrament from Christ, that will embolden and strengthen us through grace to live His life. If we had half the conversations on this forum on how to help people less fortunate and show love for others, that we do talking about what is frankly a nit-pick on one Mass style vs. another, the world would be a better place.

We should all read the Sermon on the Mount and look for discussion points about the Mass - there aren’t any. If you remember the Bible story about Jesus and the woman at the well, Jesus spoke of the Water of Life, she was focused on the bucket. I think we too focus on the bucket too much and not the Water of Life.

Any Mass will do, as long as you receive the Eucharist! Let’s find more ways to help the starving, oppressed, and persecuted. My heart breaks for them, and they sure don’t care about which Mass we attend.

 

[Brenda_V]

(cut) I feel blessed to have found a Church that offers the Tridentine Mass. It is wonderful! The sanctifying grace I receive is so abundant, discernment to clearly see myself, protection, the joy and peace and happiness I feel all through the week. The people at the Parish, all one big family. We pray together and eat together. We have a blast. We don’t attack the NO Mass or other parishes. I enjoy being able to go to Confession, everyday if I want, being able to talk to my Priest anytime, not about money, it is about my soul. The Priest cares about my sanctification and holiness. Our Priests work hard 24/7 for us even go out and eat with us. They do confessions everyday, 2 Masses, teach classes they constantly work hard and are always available. I called a Priest yesterday because I’m a committed Adorer at my old parish, I’ve yet to hear from him. LOL I’m glad I didnt’ need last rites.

Have to say this sounds just like my NO Parish which was started only 30 years ago! Our Tabernacle is front and center, we have beautiful stained glass windows and are slowly adding Statues - we will not go into debt in order to have them so, being a young parish, time is what is needed to get them.

I was listening to our Vocations Director the other day on Catholic Radio on our local Archbishop’s Hour, he pointed out how we have something like 10 Seminarians and the possiblility of 10 more coming up. Of those current 10, 4 or 5 are from my Parish alone. Something else he said was that we are one of the only Diocese (Archdiocese) having to open new Parishes as opposed to closing them - this is every where in the Archdiocese, not just one of the fastest growing cities in the State. Interesting don’t you think? All of those new Parishes are NO too.

To answer the OP’s question, no, I don’t find that I have an attachment to the NO like it seems those who prefer the TLM have. I will attend whichever is most readily available to fulfill my Sunday obligation, as long as it is Roman Catholic (TLM indult or NO).

Brenda V.

 

[Uxor]

Again …that is a generalization. My parish is a VERY orthodox NO parish. There is no chatting or goofy things going on. We have plenty of time for reflection, which is done is beautifully and silently.

Our school children know Latin, Spanish and Italian. So do many of our parishioners. So let’s not be painting with such a broad brush. You obviously have not attended all the NO Masses in the world.

I wasn’t referring to chatting and goofy things though that happens too or saying you parish is not orthodox. I was referring to the NO Mass itself, there is **no time **for interior retreat. At the beginning of the Mass, the faithful sing the entrance hymn, the first words out of the Priest’s mouth is spoken to the people and demand a response. (The first words in the Tridentine Mass are directed to God). Then the Priest and the people recite the Kyrie, the Gloria, the opening prayer is read, people say Amen, next follows the readings with the people singing a responsorial Pslam, all sing the Alleluia then listen to the reading of the Gospel and homily. The Credo is next recited or sung followed by intercessions which requires a response and then the entirey of the Eurcharist Prayer is recited for everyone to hear and to respond. Before, during and after Communion, hymns are sung. After Communion, the people respond to the post-communion pray that is said out loud and then the last prayer of blessing. The only time you can retreat in prayer is after Communion if time is afforded by the Priest and the choir.

 

[Uxor]

Have to say this sounds just like my NO Parish which was started only 30 years ago! Our Tabernacle is front and center, we have beautiful stained glass windows and are slowly adding Statues - we will not go into debt in order to have them so, being a young parish, time is what is needed to get them.

I was listening to our Vocations Director the other day on Catholic Radio on our local Archbishop’s Hour, he pointed out how we have something like 10 Seminarians and the possiblility of 10 more coming up. Of those current 10, 4 or 5 are from my Parish alone. Something else he said was that we are one of the only Diocese (Archdiocese) having to open new Parishes as opposed to closing them - this is every where in the Archdiocese, not just one of the fastest growing cities in the State. Interesting don’t you think? All of those new Parishes are NO too.

To answer the OP’s question, no, I don’t find that I have an attachment to the NO like it seems those who prefer the TLM have. I will attend whichever is most readily available to fulfill my Sunday obligation, as long as it is Roman Catholic (TLM indult or NO).

Brenda V.

That is wonderful what is happening your diocease. What Archdiocease is that if you don’t mind?

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

I know how you feel. The TLM never made me feel that way, nor the NO, but I know what you mean from my experience with the Liturgy of St John.

I have also had the same feeling with a Bible in my hands.

I have had the extraordinary experience of weeping in prayer on several occasions, I know that others have too. It is called the gift of tears.

The both of us need to be careful not to make an idol of the liturgy. It is God we love, not the liturgy.

Michael

Amen, and God is truly present in the NO liturgy or the TLM liturgy.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

The things that went crazy after NO was communion in the hand (not that it’s just wrong), removal of the altar rails and such. Will relics be removed from our altars next? The NO, as it is now, if done reverently is great (I prefer it to the TLM). But these other changes that come not from the change in the Mass, but a change in the attitude need to.

 

[maryalene]

I wasn’t referring to chatting and goofy things though that happens too or saying you parish is not orthodox. I was referring to the NO Mass itself, there is **no time **for interior retreat. At the beginning of the Mass, the faithful sing the entrance hymn, the first words out of the Priest’s mouth is spoken to the people and demand a response. (The first words in the Tridentine Mass are directed to God). Then the Priest and the people recite the Kyrie, the Gloria, the opening prayer is read, people say Amen, next follows the readings with the people singing a responsorial Pslam, all sing the Alleluia then listen to the reading of the Gospel and homily. The Credo is next recited or sung followed by intercessions which requires a response and then the entirey of the Eurcharist Prayer is recited for everyone to hear and to respond. Before, during and after Communion, hymns are sung. After Communion, the people respond to the post-communion pray that is said out loud and then the last prayer of blessing. The only time you can retreat in prayer is after Communion if time is afforded by the Priest and the choir.

I think the GIRM actually calls for periods of silence to be included within the current rite. I know our priest has been working to include periods of silence after each reading and the homily as well as after communion. However, I do agree that it would be nice to have longer periods for personal reflection and preparation.

As for the OP, I am reading the question as saying that if I were surrounded by TLM parishes, would I drive an hour to attend a church with the current rite. Am I understanding the question correctly? I do love the Mass at my parish - it is very reverent and uplifting. However, I don’t think I would drive excessively far for a similar Mass. To me, that would be akin to church shopping, and that strikes me as a bit Protestant - i.e. trying to find a church that meets my needs and “feels right.” I think I would stick with whatever the local church is and work internally to encourage changes if I felt that the Mass was irreverant. If the situation was beyond remedy, I might drive to the next church over, but I think I would try to stay in my general area.

 

[Hesychios]

I am an oldster. I was around the frist time when the Latin Mass was it, period. A lot of people who are relatively young see the Latin Mass through the lens of “oldways are better”. But the Old Latin Mass was not a wonderful thing, “participating” by saying your rosary, while the Mass was independent of the congegation and the Priest and altar boys had “their Mass”.

I prefer English where I can understand everyword.

I would like it if the English Mass was more reverent in the English used, more like the Douai-Rheims or KJV English.

But still a Mass is a Mass, they are all the sacrifice of Our Lord.

I agree with this. I too remember the old Mass.

The average Mass was not so wonderful. The modern renditions, on the limited scale as we have today are much better done. And the average attendance today is a self-selected group of better informed and motivated laity.

When all the Masses were according to the older practice, things were not so rosy. One cannot take the average TLM as done today and project that into every Mass in every place and expect the same results. And some ‘traditionalists’ are still advocating some of the worst practices of the 1950’s, like rosary during Mass. It’s amazing how many insist on that practice, as if it should be acceptable.

Michael