Do babies who are stillborn or are miscarried go to heaven or purgatory?

[space_ghost]

hedge your bets… get those babies baptized ASAP, why take a chance you don’t have to… that being said for those born healthy
and alive., for those born dead, i bet my bottom dollar their in heaven, but i have never seen anything in print or heard anything in word that says they go to the hell of the damned… as long as i can remember, at least since 1955 and that’s pre Vatican II, the chruch magesterium in my area have always taught that we are not sure of their final residence, but given the love of Christ for the little children, and the innocence and inability to make the choice for themselves… bottom line… their in heaven…

 

[TAS2000]

Benedictus, I agree that this is a difficult issue. So how do you reconcile the concept of a merciful God, with the fact that it is literally impossible to baptise an infant in womb, yet we must be baptised to enter heaven? And how does that fit with the idea that we can do nothing (including baptise) to merit heaven? You seem a very logical and knowledgeable person, and I enjoy a good logical discussion of differing views. Please do not think I am being argumentative. I would like to consider this a calm, reasonable discussion.

 

[cove]

TNT–Since you directed me to this thread I will add my response that I posted at the Baptism thread to this discussion.<<

TNT, thank you but I am happy with the quote from the CCC which states that–

1261–…“Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,”[63] allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.”

1281…“those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, are saved even if they have not been baptized”.

For me this is “doctrinal truth”. It is in the CCC. The Church states that we are allowed to “hope” for this. It is plain and straight forward.

This is what the Catechism of our Church teaches. If I am to be a good Catholic then I should believe what the Catechism teaches. Not what a poster at an internet discussion board has decided is doctrinal and what is not. You say “in this case No”. How do you have the authority to say what is doctrinal and what is not in the CCC?

 

[StJeanneDArc]

Um…how does baptism by desire fit into this?

 

[cove]

StJeanneDArc:

Um…how does baptism by desire fit into this?

When my mom was being wheeled into the delievery room to give birth to her 1st child, she knew something was wrong and before she was put under she asked that her baby be baptized. A nurse who was there performed the simple baptism as my mom had requested because there was no one there to do it. When my mom told her priest he told her that because she willed it it was so.

I am sure that there are some here that will argue that this is not true (that my brother was baptized). But, who here would tell my mom who has always believed for the last 56 years that her son has been her little angel in heaven?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

TNT:

Objectively, what difference would it ever make for you to contend? Would that make it so? If not, it’s a useless contention.
To quote the Catechism VAT II:

Baltimore Catechism VAT I:
So, if the catechism is the teaching of the Church, and 2 catechisms teach opposing views, one a hope (wish) and the other a certitude, is the Catechism a “sure guide to the Catholic Faith” as JPII insists?
Looks like a sure misguide on this one.
Did the Church miss the bible verses: “God who desires that all men should be saved” & “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” 100 years ago? Did they not go to heaven 100 years ago, then start going to (maybe) heaven 20 years ago?
What will it be 50 years from now? Maybe they will discover another verse so they go straight to heaven without a doubt?
Does this Church need more than “2000” years to make up it’s mind what to teach?
Sheeesh !

The Catechisms do not oppose one another. And the Church is following the Scriptures when it says; Unless am man be born again of water and the Spirit he can not enter the kingdom. Jn 3:5

One says what the Scriptures say, the other says we can only hope that there might be another way to be “Born Again” meaning receive the Grace of Baptism.

 

[MaggieOH]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this in recent days. Certainly God’s mercy extends to aborted, miscarried and stillborn babies. HOWEVER, wouldn’t it be equally certain that there would need to be some sort of free will choice of heaven? We know that God will force no one into heaven, so there must be some sort of choice, even for that fertilized cell that passes right through the womb unnoticed by a contracepting person, right? Wouldn’t they, too, choose their eternal state?

Isn’t this the gravity of the sin of abortion: That a creation of the Father is not allowed to make that free will choice while flesh and blood?
[/quote]

I would disagree with this understanding of free will and would contend that free will has nothing to do with the Mercy of God being applied to the souls of those babies who are aborted, miscarried or stillborn.

Free choice applies to our rejection or acceptance of God. Babies are pure as far as personal sin is concerned. The only thing that is attached is the stain of Original Sin. We rely upon the Mercy of God, that He will take pity on those babies who have been aborted, miscarried and stillborn so that they will enjoy the Beatific Vision.

MaggieOH

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

StJeanneDArc:

Um…how does baptism by desire fit into this?

It dosn’t.

This is my opinion.

God is Just as well a merciful. He has provided a way BAPTISM for Original sin to be washed away and entry into the beatific vision possible. If a childs parents fail to use this means, it’s not God’s fault. If a child is prevented from receiving Baptism because of abortion, it’s not God’s fault. If a child is lost because of biology, miscarriage, it’s still not God’s fault. I can see where God however might intervene where nature, because of a biological defect, not any type of choice on the parents part, may supply the Grace of Baptism outside of the Sacrament.

 

[Laurel]

I know that the babies that I have miscarried are in heaven. I know that God wants all the little children to be with him. Yes, we as parents must baptize our children as soon as possible after birth, but as for the ones who do not make it that far, they will be with God immediately. How can anyone who knows that God is a loving God and not a vengeful God believe otherwise. I don’t care about quotes from humans. God never said that the unborn, unbaptized don’t go to heaven. He said blessed are the little children for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. I also believe that even the children who are born to parents who are too ignorant to have their children baptized go to heaven. I believe that holds true until the child is capable of declaring his or her own faith and has the ability to act on those beliefs. Perhaps they will do this by asking for the assistance of an adult family member or someone in the church. Also, we as adults have enough to worry about in regard to our own state of grace. Jesus knows that children are innocent and he would never turn them away. Even children who have sinned and were not baptized, God knows who is responsible for their actions, and if he decides it is the child, I am sure he will sit down with them and they will have a long talk right before he brings them into heaven. This is the God I pray too and I will never see him in any other way.

 

[juliegh23]

Thank you all for your answers. Laurel, thank you for that last verse, it is a comfort. I had a misscarriage before the birth of our daughter, and wanted to know.

 

[Laurel]

juliegh23,

I am sorry for your loss. I am glad that you were able to find some peace of mind here. Keep praying, God will keep you and yours safe in his care.