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Timi_Celcer
Guest
They have sould but they don’t have chance to know God, devout his life to Him,… so how can get they get to heaven? Or are they doomed to eternal seperation from God?
Do babies who die at birth and children who are extremely young when they die go to heaven?
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dshix
Guest
Good question. Old question, too.
Children who die in utero, at childbirth, or at another extremely young age before they could receive baptism do not go to Hell, but they can’t receive the Beatific Vision, either, because of Original Sin. This question, that is, the question of what happens to people such as these, has been one of intense discussion over the history of the Church.
The general understanding is that these people go to a “limbo of natural happiness,” in which they are neither damned nor do they enjoy the Beatific Vision. They are happy, but not as happy as those who have the ability to see God.
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Della
Guest
If they are baptized, they certainly would enjoy the Beatific Vision since they would be free from all stain of sin.
As for unbaptized children who die under the age of reason we submit them to the mercy of God, since it has not been revealed to the Church what becomes of them. We certainly don’t hold that they are automatically damned. Nor does knowing God have anything to do with it. God is a fair judge. He doesn’t demand of us what we could not know/could not have done for ourselves.
As for unbaptized children who die under the age of reason we submit them to the mercy of God, since it has not been revealed to the Church what becomes of them. We certainly don’t hold that they are automatically damned. Nor does knowing God have anything to do with it. God is a fair judge. He doesn’t demand of us what we could not know/could not have done for ourselves.
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Timi_Celcer
Guest
But isn’t that unfair? They die so they cannot enjoy beatific vision and the ones who die but are baptized dont experience the same obstacles in life like the rest of us, and maybe they would turn God down in their adult life if they wouldn’t die but instead they reach heaven.
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Della
Guest
Would it be truly fair to judge them by what might have happened instead of what actually happened? God knows when each of us will die. It doesn’t matter if we had a 100+ years on this earth or whether we had 2 minutes, what matters is how God sees us at the completion of our lives. As I wrote before, God is just and fair. All who will be saved will be quite happy with whatever heavenly experience they will have. I know I will be–God willing.
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Colorad007
Guest
I thought that Pope Emeritus Benedict, as pope, basically taught that limbo was not official Church teaching.Good question. Old question, too.
Children who die in utero, at childbirth, or at another extremely young age before they could receive baptism do not go to Hell, but they can’t receive the Beatific Vision, either, because of Original Sin. This question, that is, the question of what happens to people such as these, has been one of intense discussion over the history of the Church.
The general understanding is that these people go to a “limbo of natural happiness,” in which they are neither damned nor do they enjoy the Beatific Vision. They are happy, but not as happy as those who have the ability to see God.
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runningdude
Guest
It is an open question, for which there is no known answer. The catechism encourages us to have hope, and to trust that our God is give the children justice.
My hope is that a little child can do nothing but want to be with God, so would be cleansed by “baptism of desire” should he or she die prematurely.
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Mumbles140
Guest
Not Church teaching in the same way (I believe) that private revelations are not “Church teaching” - however, most theologians argue that limbo is the only logical conclusion based on our understanding of Heaven, Hell, and God’s Mercy, which is certainly a flawed understanding as we are only humans, but it is all we have until God shows us otherwise.
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Orogeny
Guest
As a father of 3 children who were lost to miscarriages, I trust completely in the mercy of the Lord. If they are in limbo (as described above), I am happy with that. If God, in His mercy, decided to bring them to heaven, I am happy with that. I trust completely in His mercy.
Regarding fairness, **everything **that God does is fair. It may not seem so to us, but we are human and fallible. God is love, the creator of all things. His actions are 100% fair.
Peace
Tim
Regarding fairness, **everything **that God does is fair. It may not seem so to us, but we are human and fallible. God is love, the creator of all things. His actions are 100% fair.
Peace
Tim
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dshix
Guest
You are confused on two points: one, I’m not speaking of “limbo” in the same sense as what most people consider limbo, but rather as a place of natural happiness (the “new” earth after the apocalypse) and two, it is not a defined doctrine (yet), but that doesn’t mean it isn’t part of Church teaching.
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ffg
Guest
Faith and Reason friends.
Similar to the above, but with 1 of my own (miscarriage), using that thing called reason, concluding that God is logical.
I have a prayer warrior up there in Heaven.
I don’t find it to be that complicated, Jesus on earth desired the children to go to him.
Mark 10:13-16
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And people were bringing children to him that he might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child* will not enter it.” Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.
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Sure it would be great to have revelation of the matter, but comfort in the promotion of reason can conclude that if God has Mercy, these humans are the most obvious receivers of that gift.
Similar to the above, but with 1 of my own (miscarriage), using that thing called reason, concluding that God is logical.
I have a prayer warrior up there in Heaven.
I don’t find it to be that complicated, Jesus on earth desired the children to go to him.
Mark 10:13-16
"
And people were bringing children to him that he might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child* will not enter it.” Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.
"
Sure it would be great to have revelation of the matter, but comfort in the promotion of reason can conclude that if God has Mercy, these humans are the most obvious receivers of that gift.
J
JRKH
Guest
Caveat The following is personal opinion only and is offered for the purposes of discussion…
Adam sinned and created an obstacle between God and Man. The concept of “original sin” stems from this act and consequence.
Jesus came to restore man to God’s friendship. If every man after Adam is born as a natural “enemy” to God (by our propensity to sin) - then it should follow that All born after Jesus would be born as a natural friend to God (through the restitution of Christ).
This is not to say that the consequences of original sin do not remain - i.e. our propensity to personal sin. Rather it is to say that the “little children” so dear to Christ, and especially newborns and those who have not attained the age of reason, when they come before the Lord for judgement - - What will or Lord say to such little ones?
I cannot think that our Lord could bear to send such ones away from Himself - not after suffering so on the cross for their sake.
Just some thoughts…
Peace
James
Adam sinned and created an obstacle between God and Man. The concept of “original sin” stems from this act and consequence.
Jesus came to restore man to God’s friendship. If every man after Adam is born as a natural “enemy” to God (by our propensity to sin) - then it should follow that All born after Jesus would be born as a natural friend to God (through the restitution of Christ).
This is not to say that the consequences of original sin do not remain - i.e. our propensity to personal sin. Rather it is to say that the “little children” so dear to Christ, and especially newborns and those who have not attained the age of reason, when they come before the Lord for judgement - - What will or Lord say to such little ones?
I cannot think that our Lord could bear to send such ones away from Himself - not after suffering so on the cross for their sake.
Just some thoughts…
Peace
James
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TRH1292
Guest
May God Bless you for your Faith. Very inspiring statement to read.
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manualman
Guest
FAIR would be if God sent each and every human being off to hell for eternity. We deserve it. Heaven is a gift of mercy for those who chose to accept the gift. We’re unaware of how those who never developed the ability to choose could receive this gift. Some in the past concluded that it thus couldn’t be made. IMO, wiser recent holy men backed off that position and recognized that some things we just don’t know and can’t pronounce about. We do know God is loving and merciful. But don’t presume to tell HIM what is fair and what isn’t. You’ll be wrong. Puny humans usually are.
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KittyKat33
Guest
Good answer!
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Richard_White
Guest
The teaching of limbo is not an official Church dogma, it was only a generally held belief. However, Saint Augustine wrote that unbaptized infants go to the lightest possible form of Hell, where there is little physical suffering, and, since they never knew God, also very little suffering in separation from Him. However, we do not know for sure, because it has never been revealed to us. Nevertheless, I tend to agree with Augustine on this one. I know many people don’t want to hear that, but it may just be the truth, because original sin causes physical and spiritual death if not washed away.
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powerofk
Guest
That’s generally always been a question. IIRC, Bl. JPII actually pretty much killed the Limbo idea. On the other hand, because of this question, Limbo had been a popular understanding in the church for centuries (at least since the Middle Ages, if not before).
The idea of Limbo arose because St. Augustine of Hippo taught that unbaptized babies (in fact, all the unbaptised, whether their fault or not) went to Hell. Limbo was imagined as a way to allow the unbaptised (for no fault of their own) to not be punished for things that were not their fault. However, Dante still imagined Limbo as the first circle of Hell. In it, he placed unbaptised babies, the “virtuous pagans”, and the Muslim army captain Saladin, who was known for sparing Christians (King Richard I the Lionhearted of England actually lamented the fact that he and Saladin could be friends if they weren’t on opposite sides of the Crusades).
Really, though, it’s up to God what happens to unbaptised babies (or to anyone who, through no fault of his or her own, is not baptised). Could He declare them baptised by desire? Possibly. But really, we just don’t know. Whatever the decision of God is, though, we must know that it is both just and merciful.
The idea of Limbo arose because St. Augustine of Hippo taught that unbaptized babies (in fact, all the unbaptised, whether their fault or not) went to Hell. Limbo was imagined as a way to allow the unbaptised (for no fault of their own) to not be punished for things that were not their fault. However, Dante still imagined Limbo as the first circle of Hell. In it, he placed unbaptised babies, the “virtuous pagans”, and the Muslim army captain Saladin, who was known for sparing Christians (King Richard I the Lionhearted of England actually lamented the fact that he and Saladin could be friends if they weren’t on opposite sides of the Crusades).
Really, though, it’s up to God what happens to unbaptised babies (or to anyone who, through no fault of his or her own, is not baptised). Could He declare them baptised by desire? Possibly. But really, we just don’t know. Whatever the decision of God is, though, we must know that it is both just and merciful.
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dshix
Guest
On a side note, one school of thought teaches that those who die with Original sin but without mortal sin would share in the “new earth” which will be created by God after the General Judgement and the burning of the earth with fire. Here, they would enjoy natural happiness and still be able to interact with those who do enjoy the Beatific Vision.
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