Do Baptists believe Jesus drank wine or grape juice?

[kainosktisis]

From the Commentary beneath Luke 22 (NABRE-USCCB):

(*) [22:1–23:56a] The passion narrative. Luke is still dependent upon Mark for the composition of the passion narrative but has incorporated much of his own special tradition into the narrative. Among the distinctive sections in Luke are: (1) the tradition of the institution of the Eucharist (Lk 22:15–20);

(*) [22:15] This Passover: Luke clearly identifies this last supper of Jesus with the apostles as a Passover meal that commemorated the deliverance of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. Jesus reinterprets the significance of the Passover by setting it in the context of the kingdom of God (Lk 22:16). The “deliverance” associated with the Passover finds its new meaning in the blood that will be shed (Lk 22:20).

(*) [22:17] Because of a textual problem in Lk 22:19–20 some commentators interpret this cup as the eucharistic cup.

From the Commentary on Mark 14:25:

(*) [14:22–24] The actions and words of Jesus express within the framework of the Passover meal and the transition to a new covenant the sacrifice of himself through the offering of his body and blood in anticipation of his passion and death. His blood of the covenant both alludes to the ancient rite of Ex 24:4–8 and indicates the new community that the sacrifice of Jesus will bring into being (Mt 26:26–28; Lk 22:19–20; 1 Cor 11:23–25).

From the Commentary on Matthew 26:

(*) [26:29] Although his death will interrupt the table fellowship he has had with the disciples, Jesus confidently predicts his vindication by God and a new table fellowship with them at the banquet of the kingdom.

 

[JonNC]

Have had Manischewitz. But Mogen David came first.

Miller High Life was the first beer.

Piels Real Draft.

 

[dochawk]

There’s a difficulty there. In the narratives of the Last Supper in the Gospels, Jesus doesn’t use the word “wine.” He always calls it “the fruit of the vine.”

And within a couple of weeks of harvest, the juiced fruit of the vine would be wine, unless it was boiled or some yeasticide (?) added to it.

Fermentation starts in days, not weeks. Once it starts, the yeast grow at a geometric rate. I forget the doubling time, but it’s under an hour once they’re active.

The yeast naturally gathers on the skin of the grape, as noted by @Sarcelle. To this day, that is the type of yeast used to make wine, although almost all modern producers culture it to get a much quicker start (last I heard, there was only one boutique vintner in Napa Valley that waited for natural fermentation, making him always last to market for a given year–and his port was amazing).

Weak wine would come from low sugar grapes, not design. The yeast will keep going until they run out of sugar or the alcohol itself knocks them out, somewhere around 12%.

Wine has enough alcohol and acidity to largely prevent it from infection when stored, whereas beer does not. I’m skeptical of the notion of a stored wine below beer strength . ,. .

I got freshly pressed grape juice once back in Pennslyvania. It was bubbling by the next day . . .

My grandparents had a couple of acres of vineyard when I was growing up. A producer would pay them each year and harvest the grapes.

Two weeks later, she went and gathered the late-ripening grapes, juiced them, and canned them.

That zinfandel juice was amazing . . . and it etched the insides of her mason jars!

Some Baptists have a problem with drinking and dancing.

And so when the young couple was being counseled by the minister, the wife timidly asked about sex.

“It is a wonderful gift from God,” was the reply.

Even on Sunday?

“A holy celebration of the Lord’s day.”

In the living room?

“Yes, and the kitchen, the shower, and the bathtub! It is a celebration?”

Sitting in his lap?

“Of course!”

Standing?

He turned red with fury. “NEVER! It could lead to dancing!”

 

[GKMotley]

Teenage? You were a very slow starter.

 

[Sarcelle]

How do you prevent a Baptist from when in an outing?

Invite two of them.

 

[Wannano]

How do you prevent a Baptist from when in an outing?

Invite two of them.

This must be an empathetic joke?

 

[HopkinsReb]

How did everyone miss this from last year:
Bottle Of Welch's Grape Juice Discovered Near Site Of Last Supper | The Babylon Bee

The 2,000-year-old, discarded bottle of 100% grape juice appears to have been used in lieu of wine at the traditional Jewish meal. The find finally lends biblical and historical support for the practice of using grape juice instead of wine at Communion, as many denominations have done for years. While many had assumed the Rabbi and His followers drank regular wine during the festivities, this theory is now all but disproved by this exciting find.

The Babylon Bee is one of the funniest sites on the internet.

 

[7_Sorrows]

@Sarcelle I think a word is missing from your post.

 

[Sarcelle]

Yeah

Just fixed it.

 

[Wannano]

Oops my bad.

How do you prevent a Baptist from drinking all of your beer when on an outing?

Answer: Invite two of them.

I had noticed that your description of yourself says you are empathetic which means you are willing to put yourself in the other persons shoes in an effort to understand them. If the joke is so elementary that it means that naturally if two are invited they will both drink and so that keeps one from drinking it all, your joke is very lame. If it means what I am sure it means, and that it is pointing out the hypocrisy that one Baptist will not drink any in the company of another Baptist but would drink it all if alone, then this joke is out of place unless told by a Baptist. It is my opinion that a truly empathetic Christian would not love that polemical kind of humor at the expense of another. I have heard similar kinds of jokes about Catholics but feel it inappropriate for me to tell them here.

By the way, I am not a Baptist.

 

[blackforest]

Yes!

A little known fact is that the Puritans themselves emigrated to the colonies with barrels of hard cider on their ships! Cotton Mather and other leaders preached against drunkenness, but the idea that the Prohibition movement came directly from the Puritans is false. (I wrote a paper on this years ago for one of my useless degrees )

 

[lanman87]

Here is what was explained to me. It may be a bunch of hooey but it sounds plausible.

In the ancient world, when grapes were harvested some of the grapes were pressed and the juice slightly fermented then boiled down to a paste. This paste would then be mixed with water to make the water safe to drink. This was the normal everyday “wine”. It had a very low alcohol level of probably less than 3%.

Some grapes were allowed to ferment longer and created a wine with higher alcohol content. Even then the alcohol content probably wasn’t as high as our modern wines. They probably topped out around 7-8%.

So while the wine at the Last Supper wasn’t Welch’s Grape Juice it also wasn’t the same thing that comes in our modern bottle of Merlot. The process of making wine has been refined over the years to produce much stronger wines and in the case of grape juice, much less strong “wines”.

For the Baptist (or any evangelical church that uses grape juice) the type of “fruit of the vine” doesn’t matter as much as what the “fruit of the vine” represents. That is the blood of Christ poured out at Calvary on our behalf that cleanses us from sin.

 

[Sarcelle]

That joke was told to me by a Baptist. If that joke is lame to you than you also just called their joke lame. Good thing my Baptist friends and I don’t make a living as stand up comedians.

In fact it’s been told to me several times by several Baptists that I can say with some confidence that they do not find it offensive. I on the other hand did not intend to offend but it seems I have offended you.

By the way, I did not describe myself as empathetic. I wonder where you are getting that from. If you are getting it from the badges, the system automatically grants it to users who have met certain criteria therefore the description did not come from me.

 

[Wannano]

That joke was told to me by a Baptist.

In fact it’s been told to me several times by several Baptists that I can say with some confidence that they do not find it offensive. I on the other hand did not intend to offend but it seems I have offended you.

By the way, I did not describe myself as empathetic. I wonder where you are getting that from. If you are getting it from the badges, the system automatically grants it to users who have met certain criteria therefore the description did not come from me.

Yes, sorry, I see now that you did not advertise yourself as empathetic.

I agree that if that joke is told by Baptists who are wiling to laugh at themselves it is not offensive.

 

[HopkinsReb]

My favorite joke along those lines:
What’s the difference between Baptists and Methodists?
Methodists will make eye contact with you at the liquor store.

 

[Wannano]

My favorite joke along those lines:
What’s the difference between Baptists and Methodists?
Methodists will make eye contact with you at the liquor store.

So is this also funny? What’s the difference between Catholics and Baptists? Baptists will make eye contact with you when buying condoms at the drug store.

I don’t see it as funny.

 

[Sarcelle]

Your joke about Catholics and condoms isn’t really relevant for @HopkinsReb. That is if you’re trying to offend him by making an equivalent Catholic joke.

He’s Anglican.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

My favorite joke along those lines:
What’s the difference between Baptists and Methodists?
Methodists will make eye contact with you at the liquor store.

So is this also funny? What’s the difference between Catholics and Baptists? Baptists will make eye contact with you when buying condoms at the drug store.

I don’t see it as funny.

Wherever you find four Anglicans, you’ll usually find a fifth.

Everyone’s fair game. Lighten up.

Your joke about Catholics and condoms isn’t really relevant for @HopkinsReb. That is if you’re trying to offend him by making an equivalent Catholic joke.

He’s Anglican.

Eh, I’m with the Catholics on that question. And most others.

 

[Wannano]

Your joke about Catholics and condoms isn’t really relevant for @HopkinsReb. That is if you’re trying to offend him by making an equivalent Catholic joke.

He’s Anglican.

I was not trying to offend anyone. His favorite joke then isn’t relevant for him either as he neither Baptist or Methodist.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Sarcelle:

Your joke about Catholics and condoms isn’t really relevant for @HopkinsReb. That is if you’re trying to offend him by making an equivalent Catholic joke.

He’s Anglican.

I was not trying to offend anyone. His favorite joke then isn’t relevant for him either as he neither Baptist or Methodist.

One does not have to be a part of group to make a joke about that group. Gee whiz. I bet you’re a great time at parties.