Do Baptists really hate Catholics?

[mountaintop]

I had engaged one of these “preachers” in a discussion once and to my amazement he knew only the basics of Christianity. Everything that he said or responded with was by rote. Yet he held a “degree” from the “seminary” of a Bible college. It’s a shame that their “religious education” is so limited. The children in CCD classes learn and know more than they do.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

the kids in CCD have to know more so they can make their first Communion

 

[Bezant]

Hello and Happy Christmas.

I think the question’s been best answered as I see it, that there are only few “bad” Baptists that do hate Catholics; but there’s amongst Baptists a common misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine and common motivation to convert Catholics.

I wouldn’t call the latter two hate, but it’s obviously a problem.

 

[Bezant]

As a side note, incredible [sign of the cross] emicon.

 

[mountaintop]

:

I would like to add The Catholic Church was established 350 years before the Bible was compiled. The same Bible that the many flavors of Baptist cherry pick from to form their own theology They make themselves their own authority as it were…

Matthew

:ballspin:They like are book all bibles came from the catholic church

 

[GeorgeTheWild]

Hello and Happy Christmas.

I think the question’s been best answered as I see it, that there are only few “bad” Baptists that do hate Catholics; but there’s amongst Baptists a common misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine and common motivation to convert Catholics.

I wouldn’t call the latter two hate, but it’s obviously a problem.

I think that’s a pretty good summary, though I hope the majority of Baptists aren’t trying to convert Catholics since it’s unnecessary. Also, the misunderstandings definitely do go both ways. But that’s mainly because of the decentralized nature of Baptists churches versus the very centralized Roman Catholic Church. Though to be fair, lots of protestant dominations don’t understand the decentralized nature of Baptist churches either

 

[Bezant]

Also, the misunderstandings definitely do go both ways. But that’s mainly because of the decentralized nature of Baptists churches versus the very centralized Roman Catholic Church. Though to be fair, lots of protestant dominations don’t understand the decentralized nature of Baptist churches either

Fair enough, I agree that the misunderstandings go both ways, although from my observation I don’t see as strong misunderstandings of Baptists among Catholics, not out of knowledge in Baptist theology so much as indifference.

 

[Roy5]

Baptists are like Catholics. There are liberal and moderate Baptists just as there are Catholics. There are strong fundamentalist elements within both. Since participating here in CAF I have read the writings of many traditionalist Catholics who, if one changed a few words, would sound just like Baptists. Both say that they belong to the one true church, founded by Christ. Both quote selected scriptural versions to prove they are right. Both denounce those who want to bring changes to the church. Both are heavy into precise doctrine and seldom as concerned about helping one’s neighbor. Their main focus is on eternal life - so heavenly concerned, as someone has said, that one wonders if they are earthly good. No offense intended.

But most of the Baptists I know are moderates. Remember, of course, that a high percentage of US Catholics are African-Americans. Most Black leadership tends to have Baptist background, and this is liberal, often ultra-liberal, certainly on political issues, less so, perhaps, on certain social issues such as gay marriage. Recall that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and most of his lieutenants were Baptist clergymen.

** Here are the main Baptist groupings**.

• Southern Baptist Convention *- largest. Divided, but fundamenta\list leadership in charge. However, even in the SBC there are many local congregations that are moderate.

• National Baptist Convention *- largest African-American denomination. Leadership is strongly evangelical, moderate socially. It never officially endorsed the work of Dr. King, partly because they though he wasn't evangelical enough (trained at liberal seminary), but also because of personal issues, especially jealousy.

• American Baptist Convention *- formerly Northern Baptist Convention. Moderate to liberal, mainly evident in north. (There was a split at the time of the Civil War.)
  
  *Miscellaneous Baptist groups*. These are numerous, a few sizeable, many of them rather small. Many congregations are independent, working together, perhaps, with a few others, often refusing to cooperate with other denominations, including other Baptists.

**
A few interesting facts**.

  *President Carter* cut his ties with the SBC and became associated with a liberal splinter group that broke away.

•  While Clinton was also a Baptist,* Hillary was a strong Methodist and they regularly attended Foundry United Methodist Church while in DC.
  
  *Remember that the Baptists were ardent advocates of a strict separation of church and state in colonial times.* Now, most conservative Baptists want the USA to be a definite Christian nation - prayer in public schools, prayer at atheltic events, etc. An historic flip-flop.

  • In some important areas, Baptists and Catholics agree.* Certainly most Southern Baptists oppose same-sex marriage and abortion. In fact, a higher precentage of Catholics probably favor allowing both. The majority of Catholics have Democratic party roots. Ironically, the ‘Solid South’ was totally Democratic (because of the Civil War) until the civil rights controversy when it began to move to the right and now is largely GOP.

  *Altogether, Baptists probably number about 60,000,000 in the USA, perhaps 10,000,000 less than Catholics.* Many Protestant denominations do not count children and attendees who have not officially joined. Researchers used to say that for every Protestant who was a church member, at least one more should be counted to include children and adults who self-identified as Protestants but are not on the church membership rolls. There are, for example, roughly 160,000,000 Protestants. approximately 70,000,000 Catholics. The rest are Mormons, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Jehovah Witnesses, atheists, agnostics, etc. Many with no church connection have funerals conducted by Protestant clergy. Why that happens I'm not sure, but it seems to be commonplace.

•  As to hating Catholics, that is rare, even among strong fundamentalist Protestants*. They feel that Catholics need to be converted just as many Catholics think that Baptists and other Protestants need to be converted. There is a lot of misunderstanding and bias on both sides, more against the religion than the people.
  
  **God bless them all** - all of God's children, of every creed, color and country. Keep smiling. Happy New Year. And may religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

 

[Roy5]

CORRECTION.

I MEANT, OF COURSE, THAT A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF BAPTISTS ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN. TYPED TOO QUICKLY AND CHECKED TOO CARELESSLY. SORRY. The largest group of African-Americans, by far, are Baptists. Next come the Methodists, in the United Methodist Church, but more so in the AME, AME Zion, and CME Methodist denominations. Third would come Pentecostalists of various kinds. Catholics have grown, especially since a major influx from the West Indies where Catholics are a higher percentage of the population than in the US. There are Catholic and Protestant groups coming in from parts of Africa, also.

 

[Javl]

Okay I will attempt to answer this the best I know how. My church (which is SBC) does teach “once saved, always saved”. When a person is truly saved when the Holy Spirit takes up residence in his heart, he is given the gift of eternal life. If we cannot do anything to earn our salvation, then we cannot do anything to lose it. God has us in His hand and He won’t ever let us go. John 6:39 may discuss this but I am not certain as I do not have a Bible with me at present. We can stray from the faith like the prodigal son of course. Or if someone later in life says they no longer believe in God then the actual salvation experience must be questioned. Was it genuine or were they just praying a sinner’s prayer on an emotional high (or low). Our faith should not depend on our emotions (though we will certainly go through highs and lows). There is much more to SBC’s thoughts on the issue but I hope this answered your question in general.

And I know from talking to my Catholic friends that yall disagree with us on this and I respect that. I have struggled with both sides of this topic myself. I do not bind myself to the Baptist doctrine just because I choose to worship there. I bind myself only to the Word of God.

Thank you for your answer, it’s much appreciated. The Baptist position does sound logical, but there are some questions it does not answer. We’ll leave this subject for another thread. Thank you again. Shalom haMeshiach.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[rev_kevin]

:

:ballspin:They like are book all bibles came from the catholic church

It comes from God and the CC just put it together.

 

[Hiskid1973]

It comes from God and the CC just put it together.

Do you mean the small “c” Catholc church with all the sees together ?

 

[Bezant]

CORRECTION.

I MEANT, OF COURSE, THAT A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF BAPTISTS ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN. TYPED TOO QUICKLY AND CHECKED TOO CARELESSLY. SORRY. The largest group of African-Americans, by far, are Baptists. Next come the Methodists, in the United Methodist Church, but more so in the AME, AME Zion, and CME Methodist denominations. Third would come Pentecostalists of various kinds. Catholics have grown, especially since a major influx from the West Indies where Catholics are a higher percentage of the population than in the US. There are Catholic and Protestant groups coming in from parts of Africa, also.

I’d like to point out however that Catholicism is rarer among the English-speaking West Indies than French- or Spanish-speaking areas, except in areas recently colonised by the British, where COE, Baptism, Adventism, and Methodism generally predominate.

 

[TracyR]

Originally Posted by ByHisWounds
Okay I will attempt to answer this the best I know how. My church (which is SBC) does teach “once saved, always saved”. When a person is truly saved when the Holy Spirit takes up residence in his heart, he is given the gift of eternal life. If we cannot do anything to earn our salvation, then we cannot do anything to lose it. God has us in His hand and He won’t ever let us go. John 6:39 may discuss this but I am not certain as I do not have a Bible with me at present. We can stray from the faith like the prodigal son of course. Or if someone later in life says they no longer believe in God then the actual salvation experience must be questioned. Was it genuine or were they just praying a sinner’s prayer on an emotional high (or low). Our faith should not depend on our emotions (though we will certainly go through highs and lows). There is much more to SBC’s thoughts on the issue but I hope this answered your question in general.

And I know from talking to my Catholic friends that yall disagree with us on this and I respect that. I have struggled with both sides of this topic myself. I do not bind myself to the Baptist doctrine just because I choose to worship there. I bind myself only to the Word of God.

Thank you for your answer, it’s much appreciated. The Baptist position does sound logical, but there are some questions

See this is where it been so murky for me. The once saved always saved. I see so many people misunderstand this whole concept. From my experience with multiple Protestant faiths and seeing first hand in my life. Many take this as " I say a sinners prayer and I’m home free." I don’t have to put forth any effort into anything now. I’m saved.

Without works then faith is useless : James 2:14-26

I have to agree with our deacon at our church… we should be born again every day. Not just one time. Then follow that with our good works.

 

[JRRTFAN]

the kids in CCD have to know more so they can make their first Communion

“Originally Posted by Javl
I had engaged one of these “preachers” in a discussion once and to my amazement he knew only the basics of Christianity. Everything that he said or responded with was by rote. Yet he held a “degree” from the “seminary” of a Bible college. It’s a shame that their “religious education” is so limited. The children in CCD classes learn and know more than they do.”

I am sorry to disagree, but the kids I have seen coming out of 12 years of CCD don’t know first base from Tranquility Base. Evangelical and Baptist kids have a SIGNIFICANTLY more challenging Sunday school regimen than CCD, at least in this part of the world.

 

[Bezant]

“Originally Posted by Javl
I had engaged one of these “preachers” in a discussion once and to my amazement he knew only the basics of Christianity. Everything that he said or responded with was by rote. Yet he held a “degree” from the “seminary” of a Bible college. It’s a shame that their “religious education” is so limited. The children in CCD classes learn and know more than they do.”

I am sorry to disagree, but the kids I have seen coming out of 12 years of CCD don’t know first base from Tranquility Base. Evangelical and Baptist kids have a SIGNIFICANTLY more challenging Sunday school regimen than CCD, at least in this part of the world.

I have to agree with you on that one JRR, with the experience in both a Protestant (o.k., not Baptist, but Methodist) Sunday school and a Catholic school education.

I was originally baptised a Methodist and educated at Sunday school until our mother moved to another city and decided to become Catholic.

As such I didn’t “convert” in any formal sense, but assumed First Communion courses, albeit I was older than the average student.

To make a long story short, at the end of that year my priest asked me what a sacrament is, and I couldn’t tell him. So he informed my mother I would need to do another course in F.C. It took me two years to recieve my F.C. because the instruction was rather lazy; my confirmation courses were somewhat more thoughtful, but still not very thorough.

Protestant children are made to learn Scripture.

Catholic education applies the teachings and Scriptural commentary first, with the assumption that parents are making a space for Scripture in their home. I’m not surprised when Catholic children don’t know common Bible stories.

 

[glencora]

I was raised Missionary Baptist. I am now Roman Catholic; 10 years and counting! Funny, I never knew that Catholics weren’t Christian (smile)! The anti-Catholicism of some Baptists is primarily a “white” phenomenon. I NEVER encountered anti-Catholicism, as a child. Sure, we knew Catholics had that thing with Mary, etc., but I ALWAYS knew Catholics were Christian. Perhaps this was due to extensive reading. I read encyclopedias for fun! LOL! We were poor, it was the 70’s-80, and I was TOO YOUNG for Disco! I knew that ALL Protestant churches evolved (or devolved) from the Catholic Church. MY conversion is a LOONG story. Suffice it to say that when contemplating converting; I became cognizant of anti-Catholicism. It was at the Baptist Student Union, during post-Baccalaureate studies. Disturbed, angry, shocked, and saddened was my reaction. I felt under siege! It was MY duty to defend the Church! It was my responsibility to educate Catholics! I railed against the Magisterium. It was THEIR fault that Catholics were soo ignorant! Vatican II did it and then I delved into the whole Lefebvrist slant.

Now, I am much more relaxed. God will protect his Church. He asks me to be faithful! As a certified catechist, I do believe the Magisterium MUST develop a systematic catechetical program! It needs to be ongoing, worldwide, and taught by trained catechists. CCD is not adequate. I have ideas, but that’s a whole other topic. An aside; racism is the sin of idolatry! I find it ironic that Catholics are accused of worshipping idols, but racism is acceptable. The sin of pride and presumption seems to be likewise acceptable in many churches. Oh, well…

PS: There was a docudrama series on the Discovery Channel called, “A Haunting”. When a spiritual cleansing was required, the victims ALWAYS contacted a priest! There was even a case where a former Catholic priest, now Episcopalian did the cleansing. As you know, a priest is forever. Do the demons know something Bob Jones does not; just a thought?

 

[JustaServant]

I am sorry to disagree, but the kids I have seen coming out of 12 years of CCD don’t know first base from Tranquility Base. Evangelical and Baptist kids have a SIGNIFICANTLY more challenging Sunday school regimen than CCD, at least in this part of the world.

Agree and disagree.
First, you are correct in that the Protestant churches which have a strong SS program, the children are learning the Bible (through memorization and otherwise). And many Catholic parishes could learn from Protestant churches in how to train their youth. Not just the Bible, but the Cathechism (I remember the old Baltimore Cathechism).
However, do not assume that it is a magic pill that will train a child to be a strong christian adult. I have seen kids in strong Protestant SS grow up and reject it all. I don’t know of one christian Catholic or Protestant who will disagree that a strong SS has no effect on a child if there is no re-enforcement at home.
Bible memorization is great. But if there is no example beyond the church doors, they might as well be memorizing Shakesphere.

 

[JRRTFAN]

Agree and disagree.
First, you are correct in that the Protestant churches which have a strong SS program, the children are learning the Bible (through memorization and otherwise). And many Catholic parishes could learn from Protestant churches in how to train their youth. Not just the Bible, but the Cathechism (I remember the old Baltimore Cathechism).
However, do not assume that it is a magic pill that will train a child to be a strong christian adult. I have seen kids in strong Protestant SS grow up and reject it all. I don’t know of one christian Catholic or Protestant who will disagree that a strong SS has no effect on a child if there is no re-enforcement at home.
Bible memorization is great. But if there is no example beyond the church doors, they might as well be memorizing Shakesphere.

Oh I’m not presuming anything about the efficacy of the Proestant Sunday School. All I’m saying is they have a structure based around their religious convictions. When I was a kid we learned the Baltimore Catechism. The Catholic kids don’t now. Why, “because memorization is not the right way to learn.” Well, they learn math, english diction and punctuation, spelling, history et al that way, but it’s “not appropriate” for religion, to which I say equine excreta. Instead they take classes following such luminary programs as the Sadlier series which is sadlier than any thing you have ever seen. Once they zip through that lesson it’s out with the crayons. So the Protestant approach may not work all the time but the Catholic approach almost never works over time. Look around your parish on Sunday. How many 18 -30 year olds do you see? All I see are us grey hairs.

 

[Javl]

“Originally Posted by Javl
I had engaged one of these “preachers” in a discussion once and to my amazement he knew only the basics of Christianity. Everything that he said or responded with was by rote. Yet he held a “degree” from the “seminary” of a Bible college. It’s a shame that their “religious education” is so limited. The children in CCD classes learn and know more than they do.”

I am sorry to disagree, but the kids I have seen coming out of 12 years of CCD don’t know first base from Tranquility Base. Evangelical and Baptist kids have a SIGNIFICANTLY more challenging Sunday school regimen than CCD, at least in this part of the world.

Either complain to your priest or the Bishop. Here, in our parish, the children learn and can hold their own. Shalom haMeshiach,

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[JustaServant]

Look around your parish on Sunday. How many 18 -30 year olds do you see? All I see are us grey hairs.

I see plenty of kids, teen-agers, and young couples. The only place I saw* just* grey hairs were in Baptist churches.
The truth is, Protestants and Catholics suffer from the same thing: our modern world entices kids away from things spiritual to worldly pursuits. SS and CCD classes only have a certain reach. After a certain age, its up to them.