Do bishops have concerns over Ad Orientum

[jwinch2]

Latin is a whole other issue. I agree that where there is no sounds system, or back when there was no sound system, this would be a legitimate issue.

I still do no think this would be a big issue for most Catholics, especially if the theological reason was taught and if it was not presented as papal fiat. Most Catholics that get upset over little things have left, or will leave over something. That is the seed that grew up with roots.

Just to clarify, which one do you think would not be a big issue, facing away from the faithful or switching back to Latin?

If it is facing away from the faithful, I believe it would be generally accepted with significant amounts of grumbling in the process if it were properly taught and explained. If you are referring to Latin, then I disagree strongly. I think that would be a major issue that would deeply upset a great many people.

 

[pnewton]

Just to clarify, which one do you think would not be a big issue, facing away from the faithful or switching back to Latin?

If it is facing away from the faithful, I believe it would be generally accepted with significant amounts of grumbling in the process if it were properly taught and explained. If you are referring to Latin, then I disagree strongly. I think that would be a major issue that would deeply upset a great many people.

The first, ad orientum. I do not think Latin is the topic here and was only addressing the use of liturgical East.

Latin versus vernacular is a whole different can of worms. There have been plenty of thread on it and it really needs its own discussion area.

 

[jwinch2]

The first, ad orientum. I do not think Latin is the topic here and was only addressing the use of liturgical East.

Latin versus vernacular is a whole different can of worms. There have been plenty of thread on it and it really needs its own discussion area.

Thanks. I thought that was what you meant but I wasn’t completely sure.

Peace,

 

[pnewton]

Thanks. I thought that was what you meant but I wasn’t completely sure.

Peace,

You did well to bring it up for clarification. I was too brief and left room for misunderstanding.

 

[jwinch2]

You did well to bring it up for clarification. I was too brief and left room for misunderstanding.

Cheers!

 

[ProVobis]

Any parish that wants to try out the Ordinary Form in Latin can do it on the cheap with these well-crafted worship aids.

Indeed. But what we might see more of are well-integrated Latin-vernacular with ad orientem Masses. For example,

youtube.com/watch?v=Du-cM3Zal08 (Mass starts at 2:51)

Note that this could be all versus populum but would it have the same effect? (Papal Masses tend to be more versus populum BTW.)

 

[codefro]

Indeed. But what we might see more of are well-integrated Latin-vernacular with ad orientem Masses. For example,

youtube.com/watch?v=Du-cM3Zal08 (Mass starts at 2:51)

Note that this could be all versus populum but would it have the same effect? (Papal Masses tend to be more versus populum BTW.)

I think that was awesome

 

[BernadetteM]

Codefro, since I see you are in the D. of O., might I invite you to slum on out to the IE sometime and attend Mass at San Secondo d’Asti in Guasti (Ontario)? The priest indeed faces away from the people, and I believe he faces due East, if I’m not mistaken. Plus- you will see no shorts, low-cut blouses, t-shirts, chatting before Mass, holding hands during the Pater Noster, rambunctious hand shaking during the “Sign of Peace” (in fact the sign of peace is omitted), and you will find great reverence, prayers after the Missa, the most reverent OF masses as well as twice weekly EF Mass, and- confession before every single Mass.

That being said, if you’ve been to “Guasti” as we affectionately call it, and attended a Mass celebrated by the revered Fr. Marx, then I’m preaching to the choir, and my apologies for that.

Pax Christi!

p.s. One of these days I’ll make it over to the Blessed John Paul II Polish Center in Yorba Linda for Mass, I understand that’s a fairly orthodox parish. Won’t be attending the Polish Mass, however- Latin is plenty hard enough!

And hey, any news on when Mass will be celebrated at Christ Cathedral?

I also attend San Secondo and an Ordinariate parish in Orange County.

I love San Secondo and as you said they go by the rubics and people actually have peace and quiet to pray. Even with all the children and babies, there is very little noise during Mass.

Fr. Marx is one of the most holy and humble priests that I know.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Pilgrim1701]

Old Guard or not, most Catholics prefer the priest face the people. The complaints would come from all over. That is the reality of the thing. The rest is wishful thinking. And no, this says nothing about my preference.

Catholics today want the Mass in their language, and they want the priest facing them. Those who do not are a small minority. That’s just the way it is and there is very little prospect of it changing. It would be a roar heard around the world.

For what it’s worth, here’s a picture of an instance where Pope Benedict is celebrating the Mass ad orientem. I’ve no idea if this is the usual for him, or if this is just a special occasion. Kinda cool, anyway.

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/02/reform-of-novus-ordo-mass.html

I don’t think the congregation is behind the pope here, for the reasons quoted below.
The only time I’ve seen the pope say a mass with his back to the congregation is in circumstances when there is no other option, like in the Sistine Chapel, where the altar is attached to the wall.

Actually, in that link the Holy Father is facing the nave and the congregation. It is literally east, but most would not consider it “ad orientem,” in the special sense which is generally meant in these discussions, because the congregation is not looking at his back. The photograph happens to have been taken from behind him, in the apse of the basilica; which is possible because the high altar is freestanding and not attached to any sort of wall or reredos.

Aren’t the pews to the rear of that POV?

Also, doesn’t the posture of the others serving the Mass also provide some clue?

I believe the pews to the rear of the POV are facing in the opposite direction towards another altar in the apse. So the priest (pope in this case) would have his back to the congregation, and the congregation would have their backs to him No this seems like a photo simply taken from behind, not ad orientem in the sense that the Pope has his back to the congregation.

It would be interesting to see if the Pope would say mass, ad orientem, (in the sense of with his back to the people, as that seems to be the issue here, and raised in his book.) if the circumstances accommodated it, as is the case in just about every church/cathedral that has a free standing altar. Just curious, because as I said, he only seems to do this when the altar is attached to the wall, ‘traditional style’