Do Catholic Bishops have responsibility or authority to deal with wayward Catholic Universities that appear to defy or undermine traditional teachings

[Freeway_Joe]

Parents concerned about which Catholic College to send their kids, wonder why so many institutions seem to be getting more and more secular and less and less Catholic. Do Bishops have responsibility or authority to deal with wayward Catholic Universities that appear to defy or undermine traditional teachings and doctrine?

 

[tweedlealice]

Salutstions,
As far as I know, they should. One could email the Vatican and ask for a review of the Professors the school is hiring. I can’t believe one University of our faith invited a guest speaker of outlandish beliefs and notoriety. Obviously, I can’t recall University or weird person. I think it was a female Underground terrorist, who did her time, had killed someone in an explosion, with no remorse.
The only way to stop it, is if the wealthy who are going to send their kids there, talk to THE DEAN before enrolling child. Also, donors stop sending in donations to pull the school from liberal, left, communist thinking. Money always talks.
There are Neuman centers on Catholic Universities, the kids can keep centered in mass. They can report Professor to priest so he could sit in class and review books. There would be a department where they can report complaints.
Also, different thought, when a student is having mental stress and/or health issues, they should be calling parents. I would type my own contract with my child and school, that he should call you. If he doesn’t the school has to or you will not enter him into college or support this college in any way.
All the temptations of the world are bombarding your child. Your good upbringing doesn’t hold here. PEER PRESSURE wins. Sex in the dorms. Wild drinking parties that have killed kids, go on. Fraternities and sororities are a mess . They still haze. I went to one frat party with some classmates from my Catholic nursing school. My God, He wasn’t there. We had a curfew. I was trying to collect my classmates. I don’t like beer. I was on soda. I wasn’t hooking up with any guy. They left me alone. One class mate was in bed w a guy. Still dressed. I’m pulling her out. Alerting others to time. Some guy throws a beer on me because I interrupted his plans. Some girl lost her virginity. Missed that one. I got t hem to dorm with some help from other classmates. BUT, I HAD TO GET PAST THE HOUSE MOTHER SMELLING LIKE BEER. I didn’t even drink. I was going to be a nun back then. My peers weren’t really drunks or sluts.
Well, God was with me, They got past the house mother and so did I. I fell in love with Jesus when I was 8 yo. Though my jr. Prom could have been a fiasco, also. HIS ANGELS WERE WITH Me always.
I was pretty but had a strong sense of right and wrong. Only one other time did my G. Angel give me a push. 3x’s in 22yrs wasn’t a hard job.
Thoughts for parents sending child to college and fraternities and sororities. Alcohol, drinking games w alcohol poisoning going unnoticed. Ruffies, now. Don’t accept drinks from strangers or leave your drink unattended. A degree from Villanova, St Joseph’s college, Yale or Harvard isn’t worth losing a child over.
There should be open communication w academic Professors and Medical director. Make up your contract. They go to school only under those terms, so you don’t get THAT CALL.
in Christ’s love,
Tweedlealice a sinner saved by grace.:getholy:

 

[Freeway_Joe]

Many thanks, tweedlealice, for your helpful and informative reply.

 

[Dorothy]

Parents concerned about which Catholic College to send their kids, wonder why so many institutions seem to be getting more and more secular and less and less Catholic. Do Bishops have responsibility or authority to deal with wayward Catholic Universities that appear to defy or undermine traditional teachings and doctrine?

Here is a site that will help very much those who want to know what is happening in many colleges and universities that call themselves Catholic:

cardinalnewmansociety.org/

Parents can subscribe to that site if they wish and receive much information. It seems to me that the minority of Catholic colleges and universities are loyal to the teachings of the Catholic faith. Thankfully, those Catholic colleges are named on that site.

 

[frizzgrig]

Salutstions,
As far as I know, they should. One could email the Vatican and ask for a review of the Professors the school is hiring.

I almost can’t believe this is the first thing that was posted. I guess I shouldn’t be so shocked and surprised considering the general tendencies of the US culture (litigate first, go to the highest level of authority for any issue, and it must be done now).

If someone has a concern about a Catholic university’s activities or choice of faculty the first place to go is the university - ask the university how this choice fits in with the university’s Catholic identity. If their answer is insufficient, then contact the bishop of the diocese the university is in - sharing your previous correspondence with the university and their response. If the local bishop’s reply still is unsatisfactory then maybe contact the council of bishops for the country or the Vatican (again, sharing all correspondence).

While you are doing this, remember to say the prayer “Jesus, I trust in You.”

Peace,

Deacon Patrick

 

[Joe_5859]

Parents concerned about which Catholic College to send their kids, wonder why so many institutions seem to be getting more and more secular and less and less Catholic. Do Bishops have responsibility or authority to deal with wayward Catholic Universities that appear to defy or undermine traditional teachings and doctrine?

Most Catholic universities are run by religious orders. As such, the local bishop often has little or no (name removed by moderator)ut when it comes to the day to day operations of the school. About the only thing a bishop can do is to revoke the school’s right to identify themselves as a Catholic institution. But that’s an extreme solution from which there is no going back. So most bishops elect not to burn down a bridge they believe can still be fixed.

Believe me, the local bishop of these “wayward Catholic universities” is far more keenly aware of his responsibilities in the matter than you or I. I would venture to guess that most such bishops are doing all they can to influence things as much as they are able to do. But it can be a long process when they’ve got a hand full of 2 and 3s and only one trump card.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Do Bishops have responsibility or authority to deal with wayward Catholic Universities that appear to defy or undermine traditional teachings and doctrine?

You are asking two different questions, about authority, and responsibility. The diocesan bishop’s authority over colleges is often very limited. Do bishops have a responsibility to correct, or attempt to correct, dissident and unorthodox Catholic colleges? Yes.

 

[phil19034]

Most Catholic universities are run by religious orders. As such, the local bishop often has little or no (name removed by moderator)ut when it comes to the day to day operations of the school. About the only thing a bishop can do is to revoke the school’s right to identify themselves as a Catholic institution. But that’s an extreme solution from which there is no going back. So most bishops elect not to burn down a bridge they believe can still be fixed.

Believe me, the local bishop of these “wayward Catholic universities” is far more keenly aware of his responsibilities in the matter than you or I. I would venture to guess that most such bishops are doing all they can to influence things as much as they are able to do. But it can be a long process when they’ve got a hand full of 2 and 3s and only one trump card.

This. Also the Bishops do publicly voice concern when the colleges publicly do something against the Catholic faith.

 

[kozlosap]

My dear daughter was fortunate to attend a very academic Jesuit university and it was awesome. Yep, she was in a sorority, that is part of college life if the person wants to join. She did a semester in Cologne, Germany and did an internship in London her senior year. In Germany she met a group of Mormons studying and protheltizing. After knowing them for several weeks, she called and told me that after listening to the fairy tales, she will happily be Catholic forever! LOL, God works in mysterious ways! She is now 31 an attorney in Santa Monica and her boyfriend id’s Catholic too.

The list that the Cardinal Newman group advocates for are schools that are not looked upon by top grad school programs as preferable as Notre Dame, Fordham or Boston College. Basing a university rating on their social stances is probably not an ideal view. By the time your child goes away to college at 18, they are ready to be making personal decisions.

 

[phil19034]

My dear daughter was fortunate to attend a very academic Jesuit university and it was awesome. Yep, she was in a sorority, that is part of college life if the person wants to join. She did a semester in Cologne, Germany and did an internship in London her senior year. In Germany she met a group of Mormons studying and protheltizing. After knowing them for several weeks, she called and told me that after listening to the fairy tales, she will happily be Catholic forever! LOL, God works in mysterious ways! She is now 31 an attorney in Santa Monica and her boyfriend id’s Catholic too.

The list that the Cardinal Newman group advocates for are schools that are not looked upon by top grad school programs as preferable as Notre Dame, Fordham or Boston College. Basing a university rating on their social stances is probably not an ideal view. By the time your child goes away to college at 18, they are ready to be making personal decisions.

I’ve seen other posts regarding your view of Catholic colleges. What you say here is totally not true.

First, Catholic University of America (which is on the Cardinal Newman list) is a school that is looked upon by top grad school programs.

Second: Mount St. Mary’s University in Maryland also viewed pretty well, as is University of Dallas, Franciscan University of Steubenville, & University of St. Thomas. Providence College used to be on the list until they neglected to fill out the re-application.

The Cardinal Newman List is looking for colleges that are not afraid to be Culturally Catholic. Some of the schools even have only approx a 50% Catholic faculty, yet they are still on the list because they don’t do anything that promotes scandal.

If the University of Notre Dame, Fordham, or Boston College wanted to, they could easily insitute some minor changes and get on the list. However, they bought into the idea back in the 1960s that you can’t be orthodox Catholic and viewed as a top university at the same time. Catholic University of America used to think the same way, but they have made changes and they are still considered a top university and they are very Catholic.

At last I checked, you don’t have to go to a top 25 school to get a good job or get accepted to Graduate school.

As reference here is where some of the Cardinal Newman schools rank on US News Best Colleges

Catholic University of America = tied for 123 among National Universities

Other schools with similar rankings are: Duquesne University, Temple University, University of Arizona, DePaul University, Seton Hall, Arizona State, University of Illinois - Chicago, University of Kentucky, George Mason University, etc.

For Schools that are ranked as NATIONAL schools, any in the top 175 are going to have major name recognition.

Other rankings by US News Best Colleges:
Aquinas College (TN) is ranked #19 on the Regional Colleges list for the South
Thomas Aquinas College (CA) is ranked #82 on the National Liberal Colleges list
Belmont Abbey College (NC) is ranked #39 on the Regional Colleges list for the South
Benedictine College is ranked #18 on the Regional Colleges list for the MidWest
DeSales University is ranked #71 on the Regional Universities list for the North
Franciscan University of Steubenville is ranked #20 on the Regional Universities List of the Midwest
Mount Saint Mary’s University is ranked #22 on regional universities in the North
St. Gregory’s University is ranked #27 on the regional colleges list of the West
University of Dallas is ranked #15 in the regional universities in the West
University of St. Thomas is ranked #30 for regional universities in the west

Point is this: yes, while, picking a college does depend on what you want to do (i.e. you can’t attend a college that doesn’t have your major), what is more important isn’t where you go, it’s how you do.

Today, graduate schools are less impressed with college name recognition and more interested in what you did while there. A student with rich parents sending them to Harvard is not as compelling as a student with a full academic scholarship to Catholic University of America.

I’m happy that your daughter found success after attending a Jesuit college. However, I promise you her success has more to do with her grades and her work ethic than it does with which school she received her undergraduate degree at.

I work at the largest domestic law firm in the United States, and top 10 largest in the world, and there are plenty of attorneys with Bachelor’s degrees from all sorts of schools. Today, a bachelor’s degree is like a high school diploma in the 1950s.

The point is that our good academic Catholic schools are AFRAID to be Catholic and the don’t have to be. However, they prioritize hiring top tier professors over their Faith, even if those professors are anti-Catholic. Professors don’t have to be Catholic to work at a Catholic school. But professors and staff should not be permitted to do promote idea that are against the Catholic faith (especially the non-faculty staff)

That is why organizations like the Cardinal Newman Society exists. Honestly, I pray that one day colleges like Notre Dame, Villanova, Boston College, etc are all on that list. But I won’t old my breath

God Bless

 

[Freeway_Joe]

I’m grateful for all the good information and wise replies. Thank you!

 

[ThundersnowIV]

Most Catholic universities are run by religious orders. As such, the local bishop often has little or no (name removed by moderator)ut when it comes to the day to day operations of the school. About the only thing a bishop can do is to revoke the school’s right to identify themselves as a Catholic institution. But that’s an extreme solution from which there is no going back. So most bishops elect not to burn down a bridge they believe can still be fixed.

Believe me, the local bishop of these “wayward Catholic universities” is far more keenly aware of his responsibilities in the matter than you or I. I would venture to guess that most such bishops are doing all they can to influence things as much as they are able to do. But it can be a long process when they’ve got a hand full of 2 and 3s and only one trump card.

 

[ThundersnowIV]

I almost can’t believe this is the first thing that was posted. I guess I shouldn’t be so shocked and surprised considering the general tendencies of the US culture (litigate first, go to the highest level of authority for any issue, and it must be done now).

If someone has a concern about a Catholic university’s activities or choice of faculty the first place to go is the university - ask the university how this choice fits in with the university’s Catholic identity. If their answer is insufficient, then contact the bishop of the diocese the university is in - sharing your previous correspondence with the university and their response. If the local bishop’s reply still is unsatisfactory then maybe contact the council of bishops for the country or the Vatican (again, sharing all correspondence).

While you are doing this, remember to say the prayer “Jesus, I trust in You.”

Peace,

Deacon Patrick

 

[commenter]

If someone has a concern about a Catholic university’s activities or choice of faculty the first place to go is the university - ask the university how this choice fits in with the university’s Catholic identity. If their answer is insufficient, then contact the bishop of the diocese the university is in - sharing your previous correspondence with the university and their response. If the local bishop’s reply still is unsatisfactory then maybe contact the council of bishops for the country or the Vatican (again, sharing all correspondence).

When I asked the administration at the local Jesuit college about its Catholic identity, I was assured it is fully Catholic. Later, teachers, students, and my own experiences showed me it was not. I suppose if you ask the administration at a college run by SSPX, and one by Catholics for Choice, and, also, every other Jesuit college, if their college is fully Catholic, they all would say “sure, we’re Catholic”. There is a limit to the value of self-labelling, when there are so many definitions of “Catholic” out there.

Contact with the bishop is good, but remember the bishops don’t routinely monitor colleges. They rely on information they get. If you have direct information to show a college claiming to be Catholic is really not, it may be useful data. Forward it to the bishop, being aware the bishop also has other sources of information. Leave it up to him how, or if, he should take any action.

Keep in mind the Cardinal Newman Society has been endorsed by bishops. It does not claim to have any episcopal authority, but because a few people work at this full time, it has expertise and information. Consult it, and other sources as well.

 

[commenter]

The list that the Cardinal Newman group advocates for are schools that are not looked upon by top grad school programs as preferable as Notre Dame, Fordham or Boston College. Basing a university rating on their social stances is probably not an ideal view. By the time your child goes away to college at 18, they are ready to be making personal decisions.

The US academic establishment would not regard the Bible as a useful book. They would not consider Mother Teresa, or her religious order, as effective in any way. They would not regard prayer as having any good effect at all. If they now consider wannabes like Notre Dame, Fordham, and Boston College as potential members of the establishment, it is because those institutions are taking on establishment values. .

That does not mean they are preferable to other colleges, in terms of what a student would learn.

 

[kozlosap]

I’ve seen other posts regarding your view of Catholic colleges. What you say here is totally not true.

First, Catholic University of America (which is on the Cardinal Newman list) is a school that is looked upon by top grad school programs.

Second: Mount St. Mary’s University in Maryland also viewed pretty well, as is University of Dallas, Franciscan University of Steubenville, & University of St. Thomas. Providence College used to be on the list until they neglected to fill out the re-application.

The Cardinal Newman List is looking for colleges that are not afraid to be Culturally Catholic. Some of the schools even have only approx a 50% Catholic faculty, yet they are still on the list because they don’t do anything that promotes scandal.

If the University of Notre Dame, Fordham, or Boston College wanted to, they could easily insitute some minor changes and get on the list. However, they bought into the idea back in the 1960s that you can’t be orthodox Catholic and viewed as a top university at the same time. Catholic University of America used to think the same way, but they have made changes and they are still considered a top university and they are very Catholic.

At last I checked, you don’t have to go to a top 25 school to get a good job or get accepted to Graduate school.

As reference here is where some of the Cardinal Newman schools rank on US News Best Colleges

Catholic University of America = tied for 123 among National Universities

Other schools with similar rankings are: Duquesne University, Temple University, University of Arizona, DePaul University, Seton Hall, Arizona State, University of Illinois - Chicago, University of Kentucky, George Mason University, etc.

For Schools that are ranked as NATIONAL schools, any in the top 175 are going to have major name recognition.

Other rankings by US News Best Colleges:
Aquinas College (TN) is ranked #19 on the Regional Colleges list for the South
Thomas Aquinas College (CA) is ranked #82 on the National Liberal Colleges list
Belmont Abbey College (NC) is ranked #39 on the Regional Colleges list for the South
Benedictine College is ranked #18 on the Regional Colleges list for the MidWest
DeSales University is ranked #71 on the Regional Universities list for the North
Franciscan University of Steubenville is ranked #20 on the Regional Universities List of the Midwest
Mount Saint Mary’s University is ranked #22 on regional universities in the North
St. Gregory’s University is ranked #27 on the regional colleges list of the West
University of Dallas is ranked #15 in the regional universities in the West
University of St. Thomas is ranked #30 for regional universities in the west

Point is this: yes, while, picking a college does depend on what you want to do (i.e. you can’t attend a college that doesn’t have your major), what is more important isn’t where you go, it’s how you do.

Today, graduate schools are less impressed with college name recognition and more interested in what you did while there. A student with rich parents sending them to Harvard is not as compelling as a student with a full academic scholarship to Catholic University of America.

I’m happy that your daughter found success after attending a Jesuit college. However, I promise you her success has more to do with her grades and her work ethic than it does with which school she received her undergraduate degree at.

I work at the largest domestic law firm in the United States, and top 10 largest in the world, and there are plenty of attorneys with Bachelor’s degrees from all sorts of schools. Today, a bachelor’s degree is like a high school diploma in the 1950s.

The point is that our good academic Catholic schools are AFRAID to be Catholic and the don’t have to be. However, they prioritize hiring top tier professors over their Faith, even if those professors are anti-Catholic. Professors don’t have to be Catholic to work at a Catholic school. But professors and staff should not be permitted to do promote idea that are against the Catholic faith (especially the non-faculty staff)

That is why organizations like the Cardinal Newman Society exists. Honestly, I pray that one day colleges like Notre Dame, Villanova, Boston College, etc are all on that list. But I won’t old my breath

God Bless

Thank you so much for your reply with such excellent data! As a educator my experience is that some very scared parents are choosing universities for their kids not based upon what degree their child wishes to pursue, but on how socially conservative it is. This happened to a dear friend of mine in the 1970’s. He was accepted into several Ivy League schools, but his parents would only pay for a Catholic university that looked as much like Stanford as I do Julia Roberts! To this day he struggles with resentment.

 

[signit]

Thank you so much for your reply with such excellent data! As a educator my experience is that some very scared parents are choosing universities for their kids not based upon what degree their child wishes to pursue, but on how socially conservative it is. This happened to a dear friend of mine in the 1970’s. He was accepted into several Ivy League schools, but his parents would only pay for a Catholic university that looked as much like Stanford as I do Julia Roberts! To this day he struggles with resentment.

Totally agree.

And I’m also one of those who attended a Catholic college mostly because of pressure from parents and peer pressure.

Decisions have consequences.

People have actually posted on here and said, "I really want to study this, it’s my chosen field, but I really want to attend a Catholic college . . ."

If you’re going to make the decision on where to attend college just because it’s Catholic, recognize that that may have an impact on your life.

If you want to study a certain field, go to the school that best meets your needs in that field, and join the Catholic center when you get there or find another group in your local community.

 

[commenter]

This thread is not about whether it’s good or bad for a college to be Catholic. It’s about the 8th Commandment. It’s about truth in advertising.

At a public university near me, some Evangelical Christians wanted to attract Jewish students to Christianity. Fine. But when they established their Christian outreach center near the campus, they didn’t call it anything resembling a Christian label. They used Hebrew terminology for their “temple”. They promoted their Friday night services, and coffee house, as if it were something like a Hillel or the Chabad House. The minister, a/k/a rabbi, sought to attract students interested in religion/fellowship/culture in general, mainly Jews, mixing in some Jewish cultural and religious programs with - later - a gradually increasing blend of evangelical Christianity.

Again, I am not criticizing anyone who starts a Christian outreach center, and calls it such. I am concerned with calling an outreach center, or university, one thing, when it really is something else.

 

[otjm]

I don’t think anyone has really touched on the central issue - the authority of bishops.

I lack the precision of a historian, but once upon a time… as in back in the 60’s and before, Catholic colleges and universities were run by orders.

Then the camel got its nose under the ten flap, and the feds got involved (the two issues are interrelated); and the move was made to lay boards of directors.

And therein lay the change; the order might still be on the letterhead, and the order might even be providing a certain number of professors and administrators, but the transition removed the college or university from Church control.

The general process of selecting and advancing individuals in the profession of professorship expanded likewise. For anyone who has attended a college or university and paid a bit of attention, it should come as no surprise that professors, and the multitude of minions under them in the classrooms, tend strongly to the liberal end of thinking. Who gets advanced; who is hired, who does not make tenure, are the inner workings of the faculty who have “made it” at least in large part. And with fewer priests and professed religious to staff these institutions, more laity have entered into the classrooms, and religious affiliation is not necessarily an advantage; it can even be a detriment.

So decisions, made out of the sight of students or parents, can take strange and interesting twists. And the bishop can pontificate; but there is precious little else he has any authority over.

They could try kicking the order out of the diocese, but the order is no longer there as the source of the institution; it is a lay board who could tell the bishop to buzz off, just as Ford or General Mills or Intel could tell the bishop “NOYDB”.

And contrary to all of that, there are still good professors who do not stray from the Faith; or at least do not do damage to the Faith as they teach.

 

[Genesis315]

Since no one posted it yet, this is an important reference for the relationship between universities, their bishop, and the Church:

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_15081990_ex-corde-ecclesiae.html