Do Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins on earth?

  • Thread starter Thread starter guanophore
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
david_ruiz said:
It is not between “somewhat” and “not” important. I would say some are more important than others as probably most people would.
Click to expand...
That’s fair.

But it’s also not Biblical. For there are no verses which tell you what’s a “more important” belief and what’s a semi-important belief. You need a source outside of Scripture to tell you that.
 
PRmerger said:
That’s fair.

But it’s also not Biblical. For there are no verses which tell you what’s a “more important” belief and what’s a semi-important belief. You need a source outside of Scripture to tell you that.
Click to expand...
Thanks .not sure .I think Jesus had problems with two things <man made doctrine based on scripture,and misapplying scripture ,one over the other in particular.I think He suggested keeping the main thing the main thing ,never disallowing the lesser things at the same time.
 
david_ruiz said:
Thanks .not sure .I think Jesus had problems with two things <**man made doctrine based on scripture,**and misapplying scripture ,one over the other in particular.I think He suggested keeping the main thing the main thing ,never disallowing the lesser things at the same time.
Click to expand...
Can you give an example of a “man-made doctrine based on Scripture”?

If it’s based on Scripture, how could it be man-made, and how could Jesus have a problem with it?
 
Yes, a priest can refuse absolution if he perceives that the penitent is not sincere and misusing the sacrament.

There are times the priest will not give absolution if the penitent thinks he or she has sin, and has not…and is told so by the priest. We are advised to pray for the priest to gain light by the Holy Spirit if we are having a troubled conscience and not sure, that the priest will be enlightened to give guidance on a particular problem.
 
david_ruiz said:
Scripture is it’s own interpreter therefore must be divinely ineterpreted for us
Click to expand...
This, david, is another man-made tradition you’ve fallen for. You heard it from a pastor, or from another Christian, and believed it, but you’ve never read this in a single page of the bible.

For nowhere is there any verse that says “Scripture is its own interpreter.”

This is a man-made tradition.
 
40.png
FidesSpesCarita:
Thanks for sharing.I am surprised of your assessment of Catholic s providing more the personal relationship aspect .This I did not hear so much as a Catholic .I have attended quite a few baptist services ,and they were very heavy in proposing the need for personal relationship with Christ ,being born again ,and building upon it…The "hospital " picture is good,inviting and “warm”. However (oh ,oh sorry), the church should be a place for “transformation” , you know you go in as a sinner (catepillar) and come out a butterfly, a saint. However that is not even right . A sinner (catepillar ) is outside the church .When he regenerates , is born again , he is given a new heart , towards God ,and introduced into the church , as a babe in Christ . For sure the church nurtures growth of this new man, which includes trimming the old man of sin.This is where I have experienced good and bad ,from believers also. The self-righteous may look down on you , like hey, why are you still smoking , while another brother may lovingly say , in God’s timing He will set you free. This is not because it is this church or that, it’s just the people in it .I am sure you have the same “variety of dispositions” in your parish. I agree that "church " should be Christ-like in not only building but also lifting back up a fallen brother or sister , in love . I believe this is a universal ideal being fulfilled by some churches irrespective of denomination. Sorry to hear you had negative experiences in those churches…The church is a place of equipping of the saints , for every perfect work…As far as hell, as in all things , it must be handled in truth and spirit and in charity .Having said that, there is a place for rebuking even turning over to Satan as Paul says , and Jesus speaks of hell more than anyone in the bible . Hopefully you see the balance …I like your St.Catherine quote ,heaven is heaven .You know in our debates( one church over another ,one doctrine over another ,one practice over another ,one way of forgiveness over another) this is lost , for in the end , that is the main thing, to be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life and that we have life , and life more abundantly , here and now.
The Catholic faith teaches that one should never despair of the salvation of ANY soul, because by God’s grace any may be saved. It would not be the ordinary way, but there is always the possibility of invincible ignorance.
Click to expand...
The first thought is universal- any soul can be saved by God’s grace, AND I would say this is the ordinary way.
You have a point. It is possible to believe you are saved yet be incorrect. The difference is in the paradigm of protestantism, if you have a false assurance of salvation you are damned, or if your faith is wrong (not in line with what your church teaches) you are damned.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the first sentence, from there we digress. Are you saying NO ONE in the Catholic church has false assurance, that it’s just for those “other” churches ? We must also differentiate from not having full assurance when one should (doubts ). By definition of our scenario , false assurance means , you are not written in the book of life ( is not this “damned” ?) .I think all churches have dogmas defining blessed and damned. I do not find a problem with this .So not sure why you think the paradigm itself is not universal for both Catholics and Protestants.
I think that the nail in the coffin of “Faith alone” is the fact that it occurs in only one verse in the bible, to say that salvation is NOT by faith alone. It astounds me that people dont realize this until I remember how many times I read that verse without understanding its implications.
Click to expand...
You are generous for the "alone’ , which is only in the German bible, for reasons I will not judge. It is a term used to simplify arguments of works vs.faith debate ,which in certain times, and places, and churches has been needed (as shown in scripture ,that is ,the same debate) . Nothing contradicts . It all fits beautifully- faith and works , salvation and justification. I am still of the disposition that Christ did all the work .Old testament saints are "saved ,regenerated by faith in His coming and atoning-a looking forward .We are saved by looking backward , at His work on Calvary, the promised atoning. This is the work of God -“believe on Him who He sent” .The biggest work for you or I to show is the work of the spirit in our lives to be born again ,regenerated ,all things becoming new, having sight where we were once blind ,loving God and the bretheren where we once hated or were indifferent etc. etc.Now if we have new spiritual life where we were once dead , we will display vital signs of life .But I do not “do” vital signs of life to have life (start it). How do you know a baby is born ? Well he breathes and cries and eats and grows and smiles etc. But his breathing, growing and smiling and did not give him life but is a sign of life .For who gave the baby his first breath but God alone. Can the child then say I have life because I breathe ,he could, but it would not be totally accurate-he could even leave out God totally.The correct response I suppose would be, " I have life because God gave it to me ,and see, by His grace I continue to breathe and show this of life(breathing equals works).Bottom line ,when discussing this ,I like to differentiate the beginning (of salvation) , from the middle, from the end ,and I believe scripture does to .
 
PRmerger said:
This, david, is another man-made tradition you’ve fallen for. You heard it from a pastor, or from another Christian, and believed it, but you’ve never read this in a single page of the bible.

For nowhere is there any verse that says “Scripture is its own interpreter.”

This is a man-made tradition.
Click to expand...
Got it .Please tell me how does Christ explain in unveiled terms how in his great proclamation Peter knew Jesus was the Messiah(the "rock’ and keys scene)
 
david_ruiz said:
…You are generous for the "alone’ , which is only in the German bible, for reasons I will not judge. It is a term used to simplify arguments of works vs.faith debate ,which in certain times, and places, and churches has been needed (as shown in scripture ,that is ,the same debate) . Nothing contradicts . It all fits beautifully- faith and works , salvation and justification. I am still of the disposition that Christ did all the work .Old testament saints are "saved ,regenerated by faith in His coming and atoning-a looking forward .We are saved by looking backward , at His work on Calvary, the promised atoning. This is the work of God -“believe on Him who He sent” .The biggest work for you or I to show is the work of the spirit in our lives to be born again ,regenerated ,all things becoming new, having sight where we were once blind ,loving God and the bretheren where we once hated or were indifferent etc. etc.Now if we have new spiritual life where we were once dead , we will display vital signs of life .But I do not “do” vital signs of life to have life (start it). How do you know a baby is born ? Well he breathes and cries and eats and grows and smiles etc. But his breathing, growing and smiling and did not give him life but is a sign of life .For who gave the baby his first breath but God alone. Can the child then say I have life because I breathe ,he could, but it would not be totally accurate-he could even leave out God totally.The correct response I suppose would be, " I have life because God gave it to me ,and see, by His grace I continue to breathe and show this of life(breathing equals works).Bottom line ,when discussing this ,I like to differentiate the beginning (of salvation) , from the middle, from the end ,and I believe scripture does to .
Click to expand...
david_ruiz said:
Got it .Please tell me how does Christ explain in unveiled terms how in his great proclamation Peter knew Jesus was the Messiah(the "rock’ and keys scene)
Click to expand...
Faith is belief in truth in the absence of tangible evidence, by virtue of spiritual vision given by God
 
david_ruiz said:
…I follow what you are saying .How does the sinner know ? Does the priest sense it (not truly penitent) and not give the absolution ? Does the priest still give the absolution not knowing but the sinner knows he is not forgiven ? Do truly unrepentant sinners just simply stay away from the whole thing ?
Click to expand...
About 12 years ago, during my early stages of returning to God after having gone astray for 22 years, I experimented a lot. One such experiment was saying my confession to the most tainted and scandalous priest and also saying it to a non-controversial and respected priest. The advice and counsels received were amazingly identical. I was dumbfounded and all doubts took to flight. I am convinced beyond doubt that the Triune God sits in the confession box.

The Holy Spirit listens as well as reminds what we miss.He searches our heart for true repentance and reports exact truth to the Father. So many unplanned and forgotten but serious sins have come to mind just in time. Repentance that was absent has suddenly appeared and made me weep. I realised much later that
  • the HS had convicted my own spirit of my guilt
  • The Father wills i.e., decides
  • The Son does the Father’s will and absolves our guilt.
 
david_ruiz said:
Got it .Please tell me how does Christ explain in unveiled terms how in his great proclamation Peter knew Jesus was the Messiah(the "rock’ and keys scene)
Click to expand...
There are 2 sources of revelation: Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, proclaimed and defended and preserved by the Catholic Church.

You believe and accept* both,* although you only acknowledge one.

St. Peter’s great confession was revealed to him by God. The Scriptures and Tradition were in their inception at this point.
 
Pitcharan said:
About 12 years ago, during my early stages of returning to God after having gone astray for 22 years, I experimented a lot. One such experiment was saying my confession to the most tainted and scandalous priest and also saying it to a non-controversial and respected priest. The advice and counsels received were amazingly identical. I was dumbfounded and all doubts took to flight. I am convinced beyond doubt that the Triune God sits in the confession box.

The Holy Spirit listens as well as reminds what we miss.He searches our heart for true repentance and reports exact truth to the Father. So many unplanned and forgotten but serious sins have come to mind just in time. Repentance that was absent has suddenly appeared and made me weep. I realised much later that
  • the HS had convicted my own spirit of my guilt
  • The Father wills i.e., decides
  • The Son does the Father’s will and absolves our guilt.
Click to expand...
Thank-you .The Holy Spirit has quite a ministry .Tell me when does He remind ,brings things to mind ? For me it was the meditative time Before the actual confessional ,as mentioned earlier-time with Jesus.
 
Pitcharan said:
Faith is belief in truth in the absence of tangible evidence, by virtue of spiritual vision given by God
Click to expand...
Alleluia. You would think tradition ,scripture ,rabbis,miracles,even being with Jesus, was enough tangible evidence ,yet ,yet ,it took divine revelation ,“vision”,sight given by the Father to “see”.Indeed faith is gifgt of God ,nothing I can “work” up from within myself.
 
PRmerger said:
This, david, is another man-made tradition you’ve fallen for. You heard it from a pastor, or from another Christian, and believed it, but you’ve never read this in a single page of the bible.

For nowhere is there any verse that says “Scripture is its own interpreter.”

This is a man-made tradition.
Click to expand...
This is strictly Catholic opinion.A lot of Christendom believes otherwise. In the strictest sense you are right .No where does it say exactly with these words, “scripture is it’s own interpreter”, just as it does not say ver batum(?) "God is a triune God ", or that "His blood is transubstantiated for us " etc.
 
KathleenGee said:
Yes, a priest can refuse absolution if he perceives that the penitent is not sincere and misusing the sacrament.

There are times the priest will not give absolution if the penitent thinks he or she has sin, and has not…and is told so by the priest. We are advised to pray for the priest to gain light by the Holy Spirit if we are having a troubled conscience and not sure, that the priest will be enlightened to give guidance on a particular problem.
Click to expand...
thank-you
 
david_ruiz said:
This is strictly Catholic opinion.A lot of Christendom believes otherwise.
Click to expand...
Yes. And it’s a non-Biblical tradition they’ve submitted to.

That would be fine if they didn’t object to Catholics for allegedly having “non-Biblical traditions”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top