Do Catholic Teachings On Predestination Logically Conclude with OSAS?

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Nothing in the passage says that at all.

Excuse me, is that your strategy now, that you willingly make yourself blind to what Scripture says so that you would be right? Really?

However, continuing into the next chapter we are told election is not based upon what the elected one has done, is doing, or will do, but upon God’s choice with respect to what God wants, and wills (Rom 9:11).

sigh. Alright, let us tackle this Romans chapter 9.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 9:10-16[/BIBLEDRB]

Looks like everything is for your definition of predestination, right? Well…

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 11:30-32[/BIBLEDRB]

Well, then, your argument falls flat on its face. You say that God only shows mercy to those He wills, right? Well St. Paul says that He wills mercy TO ALL PEOPLE REGARDLESS TO WHETHER THEY ARE THE ELECT OR NOT. That’s why St. Paul said SO now what?

Actually, you did post something. I’m not accustomed to your style of posting, but you did post something that supports what I said.

No that’s not what I mean, and I’m pretty sure you know the difference between “vocationally” and “salvationally,” and yet you refer to salvation passages so maybe you don’t know the difference.
No it doesn’t, actually, as Rom 9:11ff shows; namely, election is not based upon what the elect one does, but upon God’s choice, and will.

Yeah, funny thing about Jesus, He practiced what He preached.

Yeah, but so did the guys who cried, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in your name?”

And Jesus responded to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.” (Mt 7: 22-23).

You see, Jesus is very clear, He knows His sheep, and they hear His voice and follow Him (Jn 10:27).

Those miracle workers weren’t saved because Jesus never knew them. The same is true of Judas. Jesus never knew Judas, and never gave Judas eternal life, and I know that because Judas perished (Jn 10:28).

Absolutely. That is the protestant position.

Actually, I’m not attacking anything, but have merely stated the fact that men who are predestined by God to heaven will get there without fail. Isn’t that right?

And I have answered the question, “yes.”

So you’re right. The question has been answered. I suppose that means there’s nothing left to say.

Again? Actually, I never said how in the first place, but God let me know by grace.

By reading the scripture, and then seeking out people I knew were Christians, and they referred me to books on reformed theology, in those books I read men explaining the scriptures as I was understanding them, and then I went to a church nearby my home, whose pastor I heard preaching on the radio the very things I was reading in Scripture.

To God be the glory.

 

[William_C]

William C, we are now on the 4th page of this thread and it seems to me that you have devoted a considerable amount of time and energy in posting comments not relevant to the actual thread topic. I specifically designed this thread to examine the merits of your comments which I reiterated in Post #2. In other words, this is not a discussion about whether or not Scriptural teachings support OSAS, but rather whether or not Catholic teachings do.

I will remind you that you have previously stated such things as, “I’m pointing out to you the logical conclusion of Catholic predestination to salvation; namely, it’s identical to OSAS” and “You’ll find it in Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.” I have yet to see you explain exactly how the OSAS doctrine can be logically deduced from the Catholic explanation of predestination. Moreover, you have yet to quote even one word from Ott.

In light of all this, I ask that you either defend the statements you made (as presented in Post #2 or retract them.

Nuntym said the question’s been answered, and he’s going to request the thread be closed, so I won’t be posting anymore.

Thanks.

P.S., I don’t know what else to say. I understand the teaching of Catholic predestination, and have a made a simple observation; namely, in Catholic predestination, God predestines some to eternal blessedness, and those He predestines to eternal blessedness cannot fail to achieve eternal blessedness.

Do you agree with that? Yes, or no?

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Nothing in the passage says that at all.

Excuse me, is that your strategy now, that you willingly make yourself blind to what Scripture says so that you would be right? Really?

However, continuing into the next chapter we are told election is not based upon what the elected one has done, is doing, or will do, but upon God’s choice with respect to what God wants, and wills (Rom 9:11).

sigh. Alright, let us tackle this Romans chapter 9.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 9:10-16[/BIBLEDRB]

Looks like everything is for your definition of predestination, right? Well…

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 11:30-32[/BIBLEDRB]

Well, then, your argument falls flat on its face. You say that God only shows mercy to those He wills, right? Well St. Paul says that He wills mercy TO ALL PEOPLE REGARDLESS TO WHETHER THEY ARE THE ELECT OR NOT. Add the fact that Romans chapter 9 had no mention whatsoever about future actions of Esau nor Jacob but only about their past and present actions (which of course at the moment of birth were none), and of course the end of that chapter,

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 9:31-32[/BIBLEDRB]

and everything falls squarely into the Catholic view of predestination and not the Protestant one.

Actually, you did post something. I’m not accustomed to your style of posting, but you did post something that supports what I said.

:sigh: I will leave you to your own blindness WIlliam.

No that’s not what I mean, and I’m pretty sure you know the difference between “vocationally” and “salvationally,” and yet you refer to salvation passages so maybe you don’t know the difference.

No, I meant your statement: “Jesus lied when He said would raise up on the last day all those given to Him by the Father.”

No it doesn’t, actually, as Rom 9:11ff shows; namely, election is not based upon what the elect one does, but upon God’s choice, and will.

Which is the saving of ALL people, but you have to cooperate with that will to be saved, as we have stated many times before.

Yeah, funny thing about Jesus, He practiced what He preached.

Yeah, but so did the guys who cried, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in your name?”

And Jesus responded to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.” (Mt 7: 22-23).

You see, Jesus is very clear, He knows His sheep, and they hear His voice and follow Him (Jn 10:27).

Those miracle workers weren’t saved because Jesus never knew them. The same is true of Judas. Jesus never knew Judas, and never gave Judas eternal life, and I know that because Judas perished (Jn 10:28).

That is right. But as I had said, God still loved Him, and gave Him all the graces He needed to be saved, but in the end, Judas refused and he perished in hell. This is what I have been saying all along.

Absolutely. That is the protestant position.

Good.

Actually, I’m not attacking anything, but have merely stated the fact that men who are predestined by God to heaven will get there without fail. Isn’t that right?

Indeed. But you will not accept the fact also that man must also cooperate with the grace that saves him or he is not part of the elect. That is what is missing, and thus you are not agreeing with the Catholic position.

And I have answered the question, “yes.”

So you’re right. The question has been answered. I suppose that means there’s nothing left to say.

By making your own definition of “Catholic doctrine of predestination”? Isn’t that the strawman fallacy?

Again? Actually, I never said how in the first place, but God let me know by grace.

By reading the scripture, and then seeking out people I knew were Christians, and they referred me to books on reformed theology, in those books I read men explaining the scriptures as I was understanding them, and then I went to a church nearby my home, whose pastor I heard preaching on the radio the very things I was reading in Scripture.

To God be the glory.

So in other words you went with the tradition that goes well with your own understanding of Scripture. Right…

 

[EricFilmer]

Nuntym said the question’s been answered, and he’s going to request the thread be closed, so I won’t be posting anymore.

Thanks.

But what do you say?

Do you say that the question’s been answered?

Are you able to defend an assertion you made several times (as shown in Post #2)?

Are you honestly saying that you won’t be posting anymore because of Nuntym’s comments, or is it really because you made some pretty wild statements that you are unable to back up?

If you make an attempt to defend your comments from Post #2 in an authentic way then this thread will not be closed, because the mods do not do that while a legitimate debate is going on (unless a thread exceeds the 1000 post limit). But if you continue to go off-topic, which is all that you’ve done so far, then, yes, I would not be surprised if the thread gets closed. Your avoidance of providing answers that actually contribute to resolving the specific thread topic could readily be seen as you conceding that OSAS cannot logically be deduced from the Catholic teachings regarding predestination.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

But what do you say?

Do you say that the question’s been answered?

Are you able to defend an assertion you made several times (as shown in Post #2)?

Are you saying that you won’t be posting anymore because of Nuntym’s comments, or is it because you made some pretty wild statements that you are unable to back up?

If you make an attempt to defend your comments in an authentic way then this thread will not be closed, because the mods do not do that while a legitimate debate is going on (unless a thread exceeds the 1000 post limit). But if you continue to go off-topic, which is all that you’ve done so far, then, yes, I would not be surprised if the thread gets closed. Your avoidance of providing answers that actually contribute to resolving the thread topic could readily be seen as you conceding that OSAS cannot logically be deduced from the Catholic teachings regarding predestination.

methinks since I gave him a cop-out, he’ll use it and get out of dodge before he gets burned.

EDIT: OK, let’s make this easier for William C. WIll this Catholic definition of predestination,

+JMJ+

We may now briefly summarize the whole Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our reason as well as our moral sentiments. According to the doctrinal decisions of general and particular synods, God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from eternity all future events (cf. Denzinger, n. 1784), all fatalistic necessity, however, being barred and human liberty remaining intact (Denz., n. 607). Consequently man is free whether he accepts grace and does good or whether he rejects it and does evil (Denz., n. 797). Just as it is God’s true and sincere will that all men, no one excepted, shall obtain eternal happiness, so, too, Christ has died for all (Denz., n. 794), not only for the predestined (Denz., n. 1096), or for the faithful (Denz., n. 1294), though it is true that in reality not all avail themselves of the benefits of redemption (Denz., n. 795). Though God preordained both eternal happiness and the good works of the elect (Denz., n. 322), yet, on the other hand, He predestined no one positively to hell, much less to sin (Denz., nn. 200, 816). Consequently, just as no one is saved against his will (Denz., n. 1363), so the reprobate perish solely on account of their wickedness (Denz., nn. 318, 321). God foresaw the everlasting pains of the impious from all eternity, and preordained this punishment on account of their sins (Denz., n. 322), though He does not fail therefore to hold out the grace of conversion to sinners (Denz., n. 807), or pass over those who are not predestined (Denz., n. 827). As long as the reprobate live on earth, they may be accounted true Christians and members of the Church, just as on the other hand the predestined may be outside the pale of Christianity and of the Church (Denz., nn. 628, 631). Without special revelation no one can know with certainty that he belongs to the number of the elect (Denz., nn. 805 sq., 825 sq.).

Predestination in the old Catholic Encyclopedia

lead to the Protestant doctrine of OSAS? How and why?

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

You’re headbanging because your straw man is exposed.

My position is clearly stated in Scripture.

Your position: Man has “free will,” isn’t.

If man’s will were free, he’d have no need of grace.

No, you say “I’m not requiring that Catholic teaching exclude man’s “free” will. If I were to do so, I would no longer be discussing Catholic teaching, but something else,” but then you say “The problem with your assertion that man has “free will” is, it’s nowhere asserted in Scripture; therefore it is a secular, philosophical position to which you hold.”

Well then you don’t even understand what free will is and thus cannot even understand what the Catholic position on predestination is, never mind discuss it.

 

[William_C]

Excuse me, is that your strategy now, that you willingly make yourself blind to what Scripture says so that you would be right? Really?

I was just thinking of asking you the same thing, but were I to do that I would probably get reprimanded, so I won’t ask.

nuntym:

Alright, let us tackle this Romans chapter 9.

OK.

nuntym:

Well, then, your argument falls flat on its face. You say that God only shows mercy to those He wills, right?

No. It’s Paul who says that, Paul quoting Moses (Rom 9:15; cf Ex 33:19). I’m just pointing you to what they say.

nuntym:

Well St. Paul says that He wills mercy **TO ALL PEOPLE REGARDLESS TO WHETHER THEY ARE THE ELECT OR NOT. **

Oh, c’mon.

God is not speaking of all mankind, but specifically Israel. Context… You’re not reading it correctly. God will extend His mercy to unbelieving Israel in the future, and He will have mercy on all of Israel WHO BELIEVE. He will not have mercy on those who don’t believe, and those who believe are chosen by God, not on the basis of what they’ve done, but on the basis of God’s choice (Rom 9:11).

nuntym:

And the fact that Romans chapter 9 had no mention whatsoever about future actions of Esau nor Jacob but only about their past and present actions (which of course at the moment of birth were none), and of course the end of that chapter,

You can’t be serious.

Clearly Paul is stating that election is NOT BASED ON ANYTHING DONE BY THE ELECT.

The elect are foreknown, predestined, called, justified and glorified (Rom 8:29-30), on the basis of God’s mercy, and **NOT ON THE BASIS OF ANYTHING THEY’D DONE **(Rom 9:11).

Note, their salvation is completely finished in eternity, indicating that nothing done in the realm of time can alter the outcome of their salvation…

nuntym:

and everything falls squarely into the Catholic view of predestination and not the Protestant one.

Uh, nah. Not all Israel perished. God saved, FOR HIMSELF, 7,000 who hadn’t bent the knee to Baal. All saved in eternity of course, and all saved NOT on the basis of any foreseen actions (Rom 8:29-30; 9:11).

nuntym:

I will leave you to your own blindness WIlliam.

nuntym:

No, I meant your statement: “Jesus lied when He said would raise up on the last day all those given to Him by the Father.”

What?

nuntym:

Which is the saving of ALL people…

Ah, you’re a universalist, that explains a lot. I know a few Catholic universalists.

….but you have to cooperate with that will to be saved, as we have stated many times before.

It’s not what you say that’s important, but what God reveals.

And what God has revealed is, salvation is by grace, through faith, and not out of you—not of works (Eph 2:8ff), or cooperation, but a **GRANTING OF FAITH BY GOD TO THE BELIEVER **(cf Php 1:29).

nuntym:

That is right. But as I had said, God still loved Him, and gave Him all the graces He needed to be saved, but in the end, Judas refused and he perished in hell. This is what I have been saying all along.

Judas was never saved. If Judas was saved, he had eternal life. Jesus says that it is He who gives eternal life, and Jesus says of those to whom He gives eternal life, “they [those given eternal life by Jesus ] shall never perish.” (Jn 10:28).

Judas perished; therefore, Jesus had never given eternal life to Judas; Judas was never saved.

Sorry, nuntym, you’re wrong.

nuntym:

So in other words you went with the tradition that goes well with your own understanding of Scripture. Right…

As you also have done.

 

[William_C]

+JMJ+

No, you say “I’m not requiring that Catholic teaching exclude man’s “free” will. If I were to do so, I would no longer be discussing Catholic teaching, but something else,” but then you say “The problem with your assertion that man has “free will” is, it’s nowhere asserted in Scripture; therefore it is a secular, philosophical position to which you hold.”

Well then you don’t even understand what free will is and thus cannot even understand what the Catholic position on predestination is, never mind discuss it.

Give me a break.

I’m not excluding man’s choices. Mkay?

I understand the teaching of Catholic predestination, and have a made a simple observation; namely, in Catholic predestination, God predestines some to eternal blessedness, and those He predestines to eternal blessedness cannot fail to achieve eternal blessedness.

Do you agree with that? Yes, or no?

 

[William_C]

methinks since I gave him a cop-out, he’ll use it and get out of dodge before he gets burned.

Friend, not me, but Scripture is defeating all of your positions. Anyone reading the thread can see that.

 

[EricFilmer]

…in Catholic predestination, God predestines some to eternal blessedness, and those He predestines to eternal blessedness cannot fail to achieve eternal blessedness.

Do you agree with that? Yes, or no?

Is this actual Catholic terminology? If so, please cite the reference and provide a quote. I think this thread discussion is better served dealing with properly referenced Catholic teachings rather than a paraphrase which could potentially misrepresent authentic Catholic teaching.

 

[William_C]

Is this actual Catholic terminology? If so, please cite the reference and provide a quote. I think this thread discussion is better served dealing with properly referenced Catholic teachings rather than a paraphrase which could potentially misrepresent authentic Catholic teaching.

I’ll ask you again, gently:

…in Catholic predestination, God predestines some to eternal blessedness, and those He predestines to eternal blessedness cannot fail to achieve eternal blessedness.

Do you agree with that? Yes, or no?

(cf Rom 8:29-30).

 

[Bballer32]

Paul says that **NO CREATED THING **can separate the believer from God’s love in Christ (Rom 8:39).

So your denying God’s power is what you just said right there. Didn’t you say to me earlier that scripture cannot contradict scripture? God creating something is FAR MORE SUPERIOR than Paul saying something.

If you think that what Paul said is greater than God saying what was a sin on the 10 commandments which could take away salvation, then you obviously do not think that God is all powerful and is equal to human power and truth

 

[Bballer32]

William C

Who first determined the bible to be the word of God?

 

[William_C]

So your denying God’s power is what you just said right there.

No I didn’t. You’re reading that into what I said.

Bballer32:

Didn’t you say to me earlier that scripture cannot contradict scripture?

Yes.

Bballer32:

God creating something is FAR MORE SUPERIOR than Paul saying something.

Look, the issue you raised is sin separating the elect from God.

Paul says that no created thing can separate the elect from the love of God in Christ. Therefore, human beings, being created, when they sin, are not separated from God. God may chasten, and discipline them, but He does not abandon them (cf Rom 7:1-6; Heb 12:3-11).

Bballer32:

If you think that what Paul said is greater than God saying what was a sin on the 10 commandments which could take away salvation, then you obviously do not think that God is all powerful and is equal to human power and truth

Jump to erroneous conclusions much?

 

[William_C]

William C

Who first determined the bible to be the word of God?

God.

 

[EricFilmer]

It’s Ott’s wording, as I remember. I’ll ask you again, gently:

…in Catholic predestination, God predestines some to eternal blessedness, and those He predestines to eternal blessedness cannot fail to achieve eternal blessedness.

Do you agree with that? Yes, or no?

And I will ask you, again, gently, for a citation.

In other words, exactly where is this found in The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma? What part and what chapter? If you happen to have the Roman Catholic Books edition then you can even give me the page number. If you are using an online source then give me the link.

My copy of Ott is right here beside my computer. I clearly see the statement, “God, by his eternal resolve of will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness”. What I’m not seeing is the second part of your statement, “…and those he predestines to eternal blessedness cannot fail to achieve eternal blessedness.” I’m not saying that this isn’t there, I only want to know where it is. If Ott actually said it, then I want to see the full context. And if Ott did not actually say this then there is no reason to examine the merits of this statement (unless it can be demonstrated to be an authentic Catholic teaching via another source).

 

[William_C]

And I will ask you, again, gently, for a citation.

In other words, exactly where is this found in The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma? What part and what chapter? If you happen to be using the Roman Catholic Books edition then you can even give me the page number. If you are using an online source then give me the link.

My copy of Ott is right here beside my computer. I clearly see the statement, “God, by his eternal resolve of will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness”. What I’m not seeing is the second part of your statement, “…and those he predestines to eternal blessedness cannot fail to achieve eternal blessedness.” I’m not saying that this isn’t there, I only want to know where it is. If Ott actually said it, then I want to see the full context. And if Ott did not actually say this then there is no reason to examine the merits of this statement (unless it can be demonstrated to be an authentic Catholic teaching via another source).

Then answer my question.

In Catholic predestination, will all of those predestined by God to eternal blessedness attain eternal blessedness, or not?

 

[nuntym]

I was just thinking of asking you the same thing, but were I to do that I would probably get reprimanded, so I won’t ask.

OK.

No. It’s Paul who says that, Paul quoting Moses (Rom 9:15; cf Ex 33:19). I’m just pointing you to what they say.

Oh, c’mon.

God is not speaking of all mankind, but specifically Israel. Context… You’re not reading it correctly. God will extend His mercy to unbelieving Israel in the future, and He will have mercy on all of Israel WHO BELIEVE. He will not have mercy on those who don’t believe, and those who believe are chosen by God, not on the basis of what they’ve done, but on the basis of God’s choice (Rom 9:11).

Not really the whole picture. The point of chapter 11 is St. Paul’s reason for his ministry towards the Gentiles: so that the Jews may become jealous of the graces given to Gentiles and thus that some of them may come to the Faith and be saved. That’s why St. Paul said, “Just as you were once disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may receive mercy. For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all” (Romans 11:30-32, RSV).

You can’t be serious.

Clearly Paul is stating that election is NOT BASED ON ANYTHING DONE BY THE ELECT.

Even to believe? Belief is an action, right? If not, then why would Jesus be angry to His disciples when they had little faith? Why would Jesus be angry for something His disciples cannot control for themselves?

The elect are foreknown, predestined, called, justified and glorified (Rom 8:29-30), on the basis of God’s mercy, and **NOT ON THE BASIS OF ANYTHING THEY’D DONE **(Rom 9:11).

I would have agreed with you if there was no verse before Romans 8:29, William. Let me quote the whole thing, and I will use the modern English of the RSV so it would be easier to understand:

We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30, RSV)

That is the whole context of that verse. From this, it is clear that God foreknew those that would love Him, and it is these people who are the predestined. And again, to love is an act.

Note, their salvation is completely finished in eternity, indicating that nothing done in the realm of time can alter the outcome of their salvation…

Uh, nah. Not all Israel perished. God saved, FOR HIMSELF, 7,000 who hadn’t bent the knee to Baal. All saved in eternity of course, and all saved NOT on the basis of any foreseen actions (Rom 8:29-30; 9:11).

True, except for the last part

What?

I mean you again forgot to take into account the cooperation of man’s will into God’s for him to be saved, which is apparent in John 6:40.

Ah, you’re a universalist, that explains a lot. I know a few Catholic universalists.

I just believe what the Catholic Church says. Remember the Catholic definition of predestination that I posted? Here is a part of it:

+JMJ+
… Just as it is God’s true and sincere will that all men, no one excepted, shall obtain eternal happiness, so, too, Christ has died for all (Denz., n. 794), not only for the predestined (Denz., n. 1096), or for the faithful (Denz., n. 1294), though it is true that in reality not all avail themselves of the benefits of redemption (Denz., n. 795) … As long as the reprobate live on earth, they may be accounted true Christians and members of the Church, just as on the other hand the predestined may be outside the pale of Christianity and of the Church (Denz., nn. 628, 631)…

Predestination in the old Catholic Encyclopedia

It’s not what you say that’s important, but what God reveals.

And what God has revealed is, salvation is by grace, through faith, and not out of you—not of works (Eph 2:8ff), or cooperation, but a **GRANTING OF FAITH BY GOD TO THE BELIEVER **(cf Php 1:29).

Then why is Jesus angry with His disciples when they have “little faith”?

Judas was never saved. If Judas was saved, he had eternal life. Jesus says that it is He who gives eternal life, and Jesus says of those to whom He gives eternal life, “they [those given eternal life by Jesus ] shall never perish.” (Jn 10:28).

Judas perished; therefore, Jesus had never given eternal life to Judas; Judas was never saved.

Sorry, nuntym, you’re wrong.

Judas lost his salvation because he refused it. He refused to believe (cf. John 6:40). It is as simple as that.

As you also have done.

Which is worse for you than me. Think of it, a Protestant that believes in tradition.

As for me, I have always accepted that Sacred Scripture, in a way, is part of the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church: I believe that the Scriptures are sacred, because the Church has said so.

 

[Bballer32]

God.

you better go home and do some homework bud…

 

[EricFilmer]

Then answer my question.

In Catholic predestination, will all of those predestined by God to eternal blessedness attain eternal blessedness, or not?

I already gave the answer to this question back in Post #19. Here again is the relevant statement from the article I presented from Tim Staples:

God’s will is immutable; therefore, God’s will is always accomplished. The mistake is to reject free will because of this truth. We have already seen that it is God’s will for all to be saved (2 Pt 3:9, cf. 1 Tm 2:4, 1 Jn 2:1-2). But it is also true that some men will not be saved (cf. Mt 7:13, 25:46; Rv 21:8). This implies the freedom to choose to serve God or not (cf. Dt 28:15, Mt 19:17-22). All of this must be understood within God’s predestined plan. How do we reconcile all of this? We conclude that God’s will has an antecedent and a consequent nature. It is God’s antecedent will that all be saved. However, as a consequence of God’s gift of free will, some reject God’s antecedent will. It then becomes God’s consequent will for that soul to go to hell. God’s will is accomplished and our free will, which is revealed in Scripture, is preserved. It is God’s predestined plan for us to have free will (CCC 600).

Now, the citation from Ott, if you please.

Let me remind you that you are the one who brought up Ott. We are now in the sixth page of the debate, and you still haven’t provided a properly cited reference to back up a claim that you made. You do realize what such acts of avoidance look like, don’t you? It makes people suspect that you’ve never actually cracked open a copy of The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma but instead got this from someone misquoting Ott on a webpage or some such.