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Sister_Amy
Guest
They were with Campus Crusade if I remember right.How did you know they were Christian?
God bless
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
We Catholics have had our own run ins with the Campus Crusade… Or at least this Catholic has. So I can certainly understand where you are coming from with this.They were with Campus Crusade if I remember right.
God bless
B
Booklover
Guest
Couldn’t you have used a better response than a tu-quoque?? Did you even bother to read the link? Incidents like those in the article are not isolated, they happen every day. Not a day goes by that we don’t hear of some new atrocity committed by Muslims following the dictates of Islam!The Muslims at my university had gathered to pray a silent prayer on a grassy area near a courtyard of sorts between several key buildings. Being on the grass they were out of the way of traffic. Regardless, a number of Christians decided to play their music right in front of the group (they had to move over there in order to do so) and others to parade in front of the group while shouting insults. Specifically to disrupt the prayer.
Vickie
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Lapell
Guest
Is it possible that some communities in Islam would say otherwise?I have asked. The answer is that he is not considered a traitor, and nothing is to be done.
L
Lapell
Guest
Muslims or extreme Islamists?Not a day goes by that we don’t hear of some new atrocity committed by Muslims following the dictates of Islam!
Vickie
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
its not just possible, but a fact. Remember the recent issue concerning Afghanistan? Muslims wanted to kill a muslim who converted to Christianity. While islamist jurists who wanted to save islam’s face tried to save the man’s life by alleging that the convert insane.Is it possible that some communities in Islam would say otherwise?
Sister Amy,
If a muslim in an Islamic Calphate State peacefully converts to Hinduism, is that treason?
If he begins to convert other muslims by persuading them that Islam is a false religion, is that treason?
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LRThunder
Guest
I’m not Sister Amy, but do you remember the Afghan convert who converted to Christianity? He was tried for apostasy and this was AFTER the Taliban were overthrown from Afghanistan. I don’t know what the resolution to that case was.its not just possible, but a fact. Remember the recent issue concerning Afghanistan? Muslims wanted to kill a muslim who converted to Christianity. While islamist jurists who wanted to save islam’s face tried to save the man’s life by alleging that the convert insane.
Sister Amy,
If a muslim in an Islamic Calphate State peacefully converts to Hinduism, is that treason?
If he begins to convert other muslims by persuading them that Islam is a false religion, is that treason?
R
ralphinal
Guest
I will take your word for that. But, could some not say that those who side with the United States against al Quida are doing just that? In fact, is that not a common claim by those who, though opposed to terrorist acts, will not help fight those who commit them?Actually, there are no verses that say that. They tell the Muslims not to seek non-Muslims as allies against Muslims.
And that is my point. If there are no verses in Islam to that end, why is that the attitude? Money talks, bs walks.“Convert to Islam or die” would be prohibited in Islam. It is a violation of the Qur’an, which you mentioned earlier. Nobody can be faced with this threat, precisely because it is forbidden in Islam… convert or die, that violates a person’s freedom of a religion, it violates the ruling prohibiting compulsion in faith.
Ah, yes. He also said that by the measure that we judge, we shall be judged. We are also taught that not to admonish the sinner is a lack of charity. See, I can say that actions are wrong without saying anything about the person. Besides, I have no issue with someone pointing out my personal hypocracy. It helps me to grow.Of course you have a choice. Didn’t Jesus (pbuh) say “Do not judge, or you too will be judged?”
I haven’t. I have seen reports of groups, including the military, hunting down any assembly of people on Sunday and killing them in case they were Christian.I hear of Muslims being killed in Sudan.
I have, too. This is a good one to discuss. There are a lot of religious issues in India. In fact, in India at one time, if you assist in someones conversion from any faith to another, you could be brought up on criminal charges.I hear of mosques blown up in India.
Off the top of my head, no. But, as that is where Mecca is, many people look at KSA as the heart of Islam.The only place I have heard this to be true is KSA. Do you mean anywhere else?
My whole point is that it is all empty words. THey condemn, then do not help. Pakistan is the post boy for this. They will help unless it means HELPING. There is an old saying around here: “that is what your mouth says, but your bottom does something different.”Actually, sensational violence speaks louder (through the media) than patient truth. Muslims condemn the violence and terror in the world, at the hands of Muslims, at the hands of Christians, at the hands of Hindus, etc. They do so because they are commanded to do that by Islam.
You missed the point. Had Cain said that it is wrong to kill my brother, then did it anyway, he showed that he was not a man of convictions. Had he said that he wanted to kill him, than at least he would have been a man of his word. An evil man, but an honest one. If I tell you that I am opposed to theft, then I steal clothing, why should you beleive what I say?Cain killed his brother Abel. By your logic, Cain was correct and Abel wrong, because actions speak louder than words.
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Lapell
Guest
Yikes! I once again forgot…Is it possible that some communities in Islam would say otherwise?
Sister Amy, is it possible that some communities in Islam would say otherwise?
L
Lapell
Guest
AgnosTheist, you’re not a convert from Islam… or are you?its not just possible, but a fact. Remember the recent issue concerning Afghanistan? Muslims wanted to kill a muslim who converted to Christianity. While islamist jurists who wanted to save islam’s face tried to save the man’s life by alleging that the convert insane.
Sister Amy,
If a muslim in an Islamic Calphate State peacefully converts to Hinduism, is that treason?
If he begins to convert other muslims by persuading them that Islam is a false religion, is that treason?
H
HashemEchad
Guest
Is anyone aware of what is going on with Christians from Iraq right now?
I received a mailing this morning from the Religious Freedom Coalition, and they are asking people to contact Condoleeza Rice, urging her to let these refugees from religious oppression into our country. Supposedly, Muslims in THIS country are putting the kibosh on applications!
I received a mailing this morning from the Religious Freedom Coalition, and they are asking people to contact Condoleeza Rice, urging her to let these refugees from religious oppression into our country. Supposedly, Muslims in THIS country are putting the kibosh on applications!
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Lapell
Guest
What’s a “kibosh”?
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Let me answer you with the Qur’an:I will take your word for that. But, could some not say that those who side with the United States against al Quida are doing just that? In fact, is that not a common claim by those who, though opposed to terrorist acts, will not help fight those who commit them?
O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allāh, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allāh is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allāh is ever, with what you do, Acquainted… (4:135)
In some cases, siding with the USA is the side of justice–like in the case of 9/11. In some cases, like the instance of Sami Al-Arian, the USA is not on the side of justice.
And that is my point. If there are no verses in Islam to that end, why is that the attitude? Money talks, bs walks.[/qupte]What has it to do with money? There is a verse to that end, one of the most frequently quoted, 2:256, that there is no compulsion in religion.Muhammad (saws) never forced anyone to convert or die.
You haven’t heard of Muslims being killed in Sudan? That is shocking… the women are being raped–even young girls. Raped and stabbed, babies being killed, the people being starved to death when they aren’t shot and raped. A girl of 8 being the matron of her family–the oldest living? You might not be aware that the population in Darfur is Muslim–they call them “Arabs” and “Africans” but they are all Muslims. Haven’t you heard of Muslims being killed in Iraq? Every day on the news? Muslims blowing up their own mosques… sheer stupidity. But I hear of more mosques blown up than churches, and more Muslims being killed than Christians. Sadly. (Being killed by Muslims in most cases btw.)I haven’t. I have seen reports of groups, including the military, hunting down any assembly of people on Sunday and killing them in case they were Christian.
The *Kingdom *of Saudi Arabia is just a country. People think that Mecca, because it becomes so filled with Muslims and is such a sacred place, should remain a place where only Islam is practiced. That is not like Jerusalem, though, which is a place where all three faiths should be able to get along.Off the top of my head, no. But, as that is where Mecca is, many people look at KSA as the heart of Islam.
There are Muslims serving in the US Military. There are Muslims trying to help the US in Iraq, and Muslims who are helping the US in Afghanistan. When prominent Muslim scholars condemn terrorism, as they have, the media won’t listen. But some obscure nobody who knows nothing about Islam except that he believes in Allah will say that Muslims do this or that and he wants to kill so-and-so, it makes headline news.My whole point is that it is all empty words. THey condemn, then do not help. Pakistan is the post boy for this. They will help unless it means HELPING. There is an old saying around here: “that is what your mouth says, but your bottom does something different.”
The USA could not, absolutely could not, wage its war of terror without the cooperation of Muslims–here in the US, and abroad.
What I am telling you is that most Muslims condemn terrorism, and say it is wrong. And a small minority act otherwise. And you believe Cain, the minority acting otherwise, as representative of the religion. Despite the fact that the vast majority of Muslims are NONVIOLENT. Which is why you don’t hear of them being violent.You missed the point. Had Cain said that it is wrong to kill my brother, then did it anyway, he showed that he was not a man of convictions. Had he said that he wanted to kill him, than at least he would have been a man of his word. An evil man, but an honest one. If I tell you that I am opposed to theft, then I steal clothing, why should you beleive what I say?
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Of course I didn’t read the link. I told you a long time ago I wouldn’t go read your links. Why you keep posting them anyway is beyond me.Couldn’t you have used a better response than a tu-quoque?? Did you even bother to read the link? Incidents like those in the article are not isolated, they happen every day. Not a day goes by that we don’t hear of some new atrocity committed by Muslims following the dictates of Islam!
Vickie
Your stuff isn’t even by Muslims–so why should anyone believe they know anything about Islam? Really… sheesh.
B
Booklover
Guest
Of course they’re not by Muslims! You don’t read them and hope no one else does, because they expose the real Islam, the one Muslims don’t want us to know about!Of course I didn’t read the link. I told you a long time ago I wouldn’t go read your links. Why you keep posting them anyway is beyond me.
Your stuff isn’t even by Muslims–so why should anyone believe they know anything about Islam? Really… sheesh.
Vickie
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Sister_Amy
Guest
If that is real Islam, then tell me what is it that Muslims really believe, since it’s not Islam?Of course they’re not by Muslims! You don’t read them and hope no one else does, because they expose the real Islam, the one Muslims don’t want us to know about!
Vickie
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Booklover
Guest
It’s everything you call “unIslamic”!! You’re doing a great job trying to sell Islam to us and are using deceptive tactics to accomplish it. You claimed you’d never heard of taqqiya but constantly make use of it.If that is real Islam, then tell me what is it that Muslims really believe, since it’s not Islam?
(That’s the real name of the article by the way)
"The terror and death inflicted on humanity is not the work of radical Islam, neither the political Islam, nor the militant Islam. It is Islam, period. Get it? And the perpetrators are not fringe elements confined to brainwashed Saudis, loony Taliban, or a know nothing Pakistanis who have hijacked Islam and are now in the business of mass murder. The latest project of the practitioners of the “religion of peace” aimed to blowing planeloads of innocent civilians to smithereens in midair over the Atlantic – ought to finally drive the point home: it is Islam, dummy. Get it?
How could people calling themselves sincere God-fearing religionists bring themselves to even think of acts of such barbarity, yet plan them methodically and cold-bloodedly proceed to execute them?"
As for your “reminder”, it’s nothing more than a tactic to silence those who dare to criticize Islam!
How about those for a start?
Vickie
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Okay, the Islam that I believe in is the Islam which teaches justice, and everything else I have described herein. I believe it. It is what I have been taught by my sheikh and imam, first who is a renowned scholar of Shari’ah from Syria, and the imam who holds graduate degrees from Al-Azhar university.
So according to you, I am not a Muslim, and neither are my teachers for they believe as I do.
Does that make sense to you?
So according to you, I am not a Muslim, and neither are my teachers for they believe as I do.
Does that make sense to you?
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
This is from your post. I want to answer, because it’s simple. Such people are obviously NOT God-fearing “religionists.” They are acting contradictory to Islam.How could people calling themselves sincere God-fearing religionists bring themselves to even think of acts of such barbarity, yet plan them methodically and cold-bloodedly proceed to execute them?"
That is the answer.
If I were to redirect a similar question to you, I would say how could God-fearing priests sexually abuse innocent little children? How could they even think of such things?
How about if I answered by saying it’s because that is Catholicism?
Frankly it doesn’t make sense, and neither does the original argument.
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