W
WCH
Guest
A pickle doesn’t have a spirit either. So what’s your point?
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W
WCH
Guest
I would submit that by definition, different terms mean different things. That doesn’t mean the words have changed.
W
WCH
Guest
Those verses are why Protestants believe in the need for the church, and for those men God sends to teach the church.
Wanna bet?
P
PJM
Guest
The very identical way everyone ACTUALLY IS as taught by Christ and the Apostles in the Bible.
Salvation is a process; NOT single act by God or by man. Included in this NECESSARY process are the following:
Christian Baptism with Water in the Name of the Trinity
Complete Obedience to ALL of the Commandments [which by the way are catagores of sins; NOT the ONLY sins
Faith once reaches the "age of reason’
Good works [James chapter 2 as well as many other places]
Confessing all sins especially Mortal Sins [1 Jn. 1:-8-10, 1 JKn. 5:16-17, Mt. 16:19 and John 20:19-23] Anyone who dies with unconfessed / unrepented Mortal sin regardless of personal beliefs will end up in hell.
Obedience to ALL of God’s mandates [Mt. 16: 15-19, Mt. 28: 19-20; John 20:19-21]
And this is JUST the minimum everyone MUST do.
God Bless,
Pat
W
WCH
Guest
Will you cite any scripture which states that Christians are not clean?
Will you cite any scripture which states that at death, Christians have an attachment to sin?
W
WCH
Guest
See Rom 7:21-23. What principles does Paul say are present in him.I will just say to you WCH, if righteousnes is only external as you ,and the Calvinist believes( which is that sin and sinfullness is still present with-in the soul)
By the will, mercy, and grace of God.
Rev 21:27 says that the only people who will enter heaven are those people named in the Lamb’s book of life, and no one else.
W
WCH
Guest
You know very well that I said it is your assertions that are straw men, and that you can’t prove them. And obviously you can’t, or you would have by now. You’ve had ample time.
C
Carlan
Guest
Ro 7:21-23 is speaking here of our propensity toward sin which still remains with us even after our justification and sanctification has removed all sin from the soul through Baptism and has made us righteous (holy) as Christ is holy(righteous) The Trinity removes sin from the soul through the infusion of grace at Baptism.
Rev21:27 says 'Nothing profane shall enter into it , nor anyone who is a liar or has done a detestable act…"
Peace, Carlan
W
WCH
Guest
Exactly, and you said this about Calvinism earlier:
"Carlan:
Putting your two statements together, one sees that what you’re saying about Calvinism, is also true of Roman Catholicism.
Rev 21:27 also says that the only people who will enter heaven are those people named in the Lamb’s book of life, and no one else.
C
Carlan
Guest
No it isn’t! How can you enter into heaven if your sin is only covered over by a beautiful cloak.
Isn’t that what "imputed righteousness does?
You still have the ugly sin under your cloak of righeousness.
WCH, God wants you to get rid of those dirty hidden rags.
So much has been said here to the truth of it ,and yet your mind seems so jammed shut.
I’m sorry, I pray, Peace, Carlan
W
WCH
Guest
Yes it is.
C’mon Carlan, my sin is forgiven. Listen to Scripture: “when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross” (Col 2:13-14). That’s what Calvin believed. That our sins are forgiven by God.
Carlan, what part of Col 2:13, and the statement, "He…has forgiven us all out transgressions" are you in doubt over.
That’s what Calvinists believe: God’s forgiveness of sins.
L
lampalm
Guest
A Christian will still be sanctified.
We are in Christ but the Holy Spirit lives in us. The change happens from the inside out.
W
WCH
Guest
What’s the difficulty, Carlan?
G
guanophore
Guest
W
WCH
Guest
You were talking about pickles, and how pickles aren’t cucumbers, but I straightened that out for you, and now you understand that pickles are cucumbers.
However, if you’d care to say something about baptism, go ahead.
G
guanophore
Guest
“Infusion” is a Latin term that refers to the placing of the grace of the HS within a person when they are justified in baptism.
John 14:15-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
The HS comes to dwell within the beliver, and the believer becomes a “member” of Christ. It is a way to describe God’s action of “pouring” into the soul, and the results of that pouring.
There are more verses on this link.
In my reading of Luther and Calvin, the damage resulting from original sin did not just mar the image of God, but caused a total loss of it. For Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and other Reformers, God’s grace does not heal and elevate our fallen human natures; God’s grace saves us in spite of our depraved natures. God, in his great mercy, declares us to be in right relation with him—a “forensic” righteousness that does not include an actual or righteousness that is “poured” into (infused) into the soul.
G
guanophore
Guest
WCH has affirmed that he does, indeed, embrace sanctification. He probably also believes in final theosis, but would not call it “purgatory”.
Calvinists embrace the purification process (sanctification) but avoid that word, because it sounds too Catholic. All committed Reformed Christians are fervent about changing thinking and behaviors to bring them into conformity with the Master.
I will take a faithful Calvanist any day over a “cafeteria Catholic”.
G
guanophore
Guest
It can be confusing. Yes, sanctification does require the continual “pouring” of the HS into our lives. We are to be vessels fit for the Master’s use, and be able to contain that “poured” grace, and live it out.
The difference in theology is not in the sanctification phase (working out salvation with fear and trembling) but with what happens at baptism. Calvin denied the spiritual effects of baptism as taught by the Apostles.
Baptism washes away original sin, unites us with Christ in HIs death and resurrection, and saves us (places us in right relationship with God).
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