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lampalm
Guest
The trinity is a biblicaly sound teaching.
The NT teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. The OT and NT also teach that there is only one God.
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The NT teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. The OT and NT also teach that there is only one God.
G
guanophore
Guest
I think I would agree with this in principle, since we cannot know the hearts of others. However, if he professes that he is Christian, and lives the best life he is able before God by that Christian faith, how is he less of a representative of Christ than you are?
Yes, of course! All products of Sacred Scripture are. But the idea that the HS is a “vicar” will not be found there. It is a Modern American innovation designed to deny the authority of the successor of Peter.
This is also a Reformation error. The NT cannot “teach”. This idea was invented to set aside the authorities in the Catholic Church, who were not teaching according to it’s precepts. Books cannot “teach”, not matter how Holy they are. Only persons can “teach”.
When advocates of Sola Scriptura believe the bible is “teaching” them, they are really teaching themselves, and believe it is the HS doing the teaching, through the Word.
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lampalm
Guest
I don’t feel comfortable saying he is less of a representative then me.
The first time I heard the Holy Spirit called the vicar was from Eastern Orthodox Christians.
When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
John 15:26
What is the Catholic understanding of this verse?
Why can’t writings teach? We are on a forum writing to each other right now, and everyone of the epistles were letters written to teach.
Possibly.
Do you believe that all writings cannot teach or just scripture?
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guanophore
Guest
I don’t either. He has spent more years in a life wholly dedicated to serving God than I have been alive, and spends many more hours a day in prayer and study. We are blessed to have a successor of Peter who strives with sincerity to represent Christ to the world.
Heb 13:7
7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith.
The same as the Orthodox, but in the West, the term “vicar” is the same as the role given to the chief steward to rule the house of the King until he comes again. He holds the keys,and the authority to manage the affairs while the King is absent. To appreciate this reference, it is necessary to understand the Key of David. That is outside the scope of this thread.
Certainly we can learn things from what we read, but the writings themselves cannot hold the role of teacher because of the qualities of teaching. Teachers must be able to exercise discernment, and accept responsibility for their actions.
James 3:1-3
3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness. 2 For we all make many mistakes, and if any one makes no mistakes in what he says he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.
When bible christians read the Scriptures, and believe they are taught by God, they are actually “teaching” themselves, interpreting what they are reading, and coming to conclusions about the meaning of the text.
Teaching is an activity that can only be conducted by persons. People can learn by reading, observing, listening, etc. All that we apprehend through the senses is interpreted by the mind. Yet, many readers of scripture do not realize that they are interpreting as they go. Our interpretations are formed by our experiences and education (or lack of it).
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lampalm
Guest
I think I have a better understanding of what you’re position is.
Do you understand that the epistles were written by the Apostles/Early Christians with the intention to teach?
Examples:
From- lampalm
To- guanophore
George Washington was born February 22, 1732.
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PRmerger
Guest
Would it not be correct to say, “Lampalm has taught us the birthdate of Washington”?I think I have a better understanding of what you’re position is.
Do you understand that the epistles were written by the Apostles/Early Christians with the intention to teach?
Examples:
From- lampalm
To- guanophore
George Washington was born February 22, 1732.
NOT
“The email teaches us the birthdate of Washington.”
An email cannot teach, yes?
G
guanophore
Guest
Yes, of course. But they were never intended to be separated from the authority that was put in place by Christ, and in whose hands they were useful and profitable for the task of teaching.
they were never intended to be separated from the faith that produced them. This is what happened during the Reformation, and the meaning of what is written has been lost in many cases, or exchanged for interpretations that represent a significant departure from what the Apostles believed and taught.
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lampalm
Guest
Sounds good
Edit: Is it the Catholic understanding of other Christians that you believe, that we believe the bible wrote itself?
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lampalm
Guest
I hope you understand that from the Reformed perspective this is exactly what the Reformers were hoping for.
Now as a Catholic you probably view them as wrong (or at least in error).
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PRmerger
Guest
There is no Catholic teaching about how other Christians understand the origin of the Bible, lampalm.Sounds good
Edit: Is it the Catholic understanding of other Christians that you believe, that we believe the bible wrote itself?
It just is quite apparent to Catholics, esp. those of us who’ve been here on the CAFs discussing our faith with our non-Catholic brethren, that most have never *thought even one iota *about how the Bible came to be.
Someone here jokingly said that it appears as if some Christians believe the King James Bible came, bound and wrapped, from the sky, delivered by a dove. (It’s a tongue in cheek image, to be sure!)
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guanophore
Guest
No, not at all! From what I can tell in my studies of the Reformation, there was not a single person that did not earnestly desire that the practices of the Church be consistent with the Scripture. All they could see were clerics who were wolves among the sheep, or ignorant, supersititious, and misled the flock. They wanted to restore purity.
Unfortunately, in an effort to throw the corruption out of the Church, they threw out the Apostolic Traditions. When these became divorced from the Scripture, fragmentation and disagreement began.
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guanophore
Guest
Some find it ludicrious that we might believe the New Testament was written by, for, and about Cathollics.
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lampalm
Guest
I find it ludicrousSome find it ludicrious that we might believe the New Testament was written by, for, and about Cathollics.
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guanophore
Guest
At least you have the integrity to say so.I find it ludicrous
The truth is, lampalm, and you will find this if you continue to study the history of your faith, that all the Apostles were Catholic in faith, and they passed this Catholic faith on to their successors, the bishops, and they chose faithful men, who could teach others also. These people chose from among 400+ writings floating around at the time, claiming t be inspired, only 27 books that were written by members of that Catholic faith (called in the NT “The Way”) for other members of that same faith, about the One Faith.
There were no other Christians for a millenia. Only Catholics.
A
Algo1
Guest
I see you share some common ground with Dan Brown.
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guanophore
Guest
Catholicity is not so much about “sharing common ground”, although it is true that all those who embrace the faith of the Apostles will find themselves on common ground. It is more a matter of holding fast to the traditions that have been handed down to us. The unity emanates from the Head, whose Word is infallibly preserved in the Church. It is the duty of all those who are baptized into it to receive and hold to this faith, as well as to share it.
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PRmerger
Guest
I think this was intended as a slur.
However, whatever Dan Brown professes that is consonant with Catholic teaching, is true. For, all truth is Catholic truth.
Thus, if Dan Brown proclaims that Jesus changed water into wine, then, indeed, we do “share some common ground.”
If Dan Brown proclaims that Judas betrayed Jesus, then, indeed, we do “share some common ground.”
If Dan Brown proclaims that Mary Magdalene was the first to hear the gospel of the resurrection, then, indeed, we do “share some common ground.”
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