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myfavoritmartin
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Try chapter 14…You sure you read through this? it’s pretty straight forward if you ask me…
theotokos.org/ChurchLibrary/Antichrist/books_antichrist_chapter_14.htm
PS…NOT A PROTESTANT LIBRARY! ORTHODOX!
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theotokos.org/ChurchLibrary/Antichrist/books_antichrist_chapter_14.htm
PS…NOT A PROTESTANT LIBRARY! ORTHODOX!
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myfavoritmartin
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Right!
I post an orthodox library with a patristic father proclaiming a protestant theology and I am DISHONEST???READ chapter 14…
theotokos.org/ChurchLibrary/Antichrist/books_antichrist_chapter_14.htm
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myfavoritmartin
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Examine them!
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myfavoritmartin
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Care to point it out?
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estesbob
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I did. Nobody has been able to validate these as being written by St. Ephraem or when they were written. Even if one was to accept them as valid they do not support the modern concept of rapture. In addition if you want to accept St. Efraem as a theological authority then you must accept all his other writings -doing so which would make you a Catholic.
It appears you are approaching his writings the same way you approach Scripture-pull out the parts you think support your argument and ignore the rest.
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estesbob
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It’s dishonest to declare that these are the writings of a Church Father when no evidence exists they are.Right!
READ chapter 14…
theotokos.org/ChurchLibrary/Antichrist/books_antichrist_chapter_14.htm
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Lev23
Guest
No, they teach they are the fulfillment of Israel. All prophecy of Israel is either already fulfilled or interpreted as fulfilled as the church. Prophecies concerning the regathering of Jews from all nations back into the land? Fulfilled a long time ago and has nothing to do with those ragathered back in Israel today. Also, there is a vanilla teaching of somehow, someway some Jews are save in the end times. Augustine, I believe taught this, and you couldn’t blame him in a way. The Jews were dispersed and kicked out of their land at that time. The nation of Israel just wasn’t visable.
The timing of the rapture in dispentionalism has to do the start of the tribulation. Believers in a pre-tribulation catching away are accussed that they just want to “avoid suffering and persecution”.
But with Israel inserted back into prophecy, Jesus church, his bride, who is filled with the Holy Spirit, with their lamps trimmed and ready with oil, is taking to heaven where Jesus prepared a place for them. This happens at a time only his Father knows. With the church gone, Gods focus is centered on Israel. In all the labor pains it will have to go through, all Israel will be reconciled with the God of Israel when Jesus comes back. Their hard hearts about him will be broke when they call out for him and look upon him who they pierced. But they will be saved, those that will endured to the end. Then Joel 3 and Matthew 25 tell of a judgement of the nations by Jesus himself. Joel 3 speaks of the division of the land, which is going on today, and Matthew 25 speaks of how the nations, whether they were sheep or goats, by how they treated his “bretheren”.So feel free to shoot holes in this 150 year old “idea” that the church will go before the tribulation. There isn’t much evidence of this being taught in the church before this time, but the teaching that the people and the land of Israel are cast off certainly are.
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myfavoritmartin
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Bob you guys continually quote ignatius and over half of his writings are spurious, and oh yeah using the protoevangelium of James as proof in marian doctrine, NOW there is some spurious writings… St Ephraem the syrians writings are WIDELY accepted, you owe me an apology! the Orthodox will take great issue too with you if you continue questioning St. Eph.
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estesbob
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Yes St Ephraems writings are widely accepted. There is no evidence ,however, that these are his writings. In fact I posted a disclaimer from an orthodox site stating that these particular writings cannot be verified.
Of course the other problem with these writings is they don’t support your view of the rapture in any way shape or form.
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