Do Catholics believe only they will go to heaven?

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Genesis315:
You are not believing in Him and all His teachings if you are not Catholic. You do not eat His flesh and drink His blood for one example. You also reject the people He put in charge which in turn rejects Him. If you are invincibly ignorant that this is true, you can still be saved however.
Calvary Chapel has communion. They partake in rememberance of Jesus. That depends on how you see it. Was jesus actually making that Bread into his body, or was he saying, This is my body symbolically…thats part of the great debate isn’t it?
 
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Genesis315:
You are not believing in Him and all His teachings if you are not Catholic. You do not eat His flesh and drink His blood for one example. You also reject the people He put in charge which in turn rejects Him. If you are invincibly ignorant that this is true, you can still be saved however.
Genesis315,

Can you show me where in the Bible it tells you this?
 
Was jesus actually making that Bread into his body, or was he saying, This is my body symbolically…thats part of the great debate isn’t it
im kinda at a loss for how people can think he was talking symbolicaly, in the last supper, and in john 6, he never said " do something like this", or “this is a symbol”, and he never woulda let his disciples walk away if he was speaking symbollically… the burden of proof is on protestants to supply the symbolism…
 
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BrotherChazz:
So what this is saying if I’m readin it correctly, and please help me if I’m not, I mean no disrespect, is that Even if you know the Bible, believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you still need the Catholic Church or you will not go to heaven?
Yes, you are reading this incorrectly.

1.The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church,
2. However it’s possible that people who are not Catholics can be saved.

The first sentence speaking to Baptized Catholics who have recieved the fullness and truth of the Catholic Church.
Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
The second sentence is refering to other Christians as well as non Christians, who through no fault of their own were never exposed to the fullness and truth of the Catholic Church, but seek God with a sincere heart.
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
 
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BrotherChazz:
Calvary Chapel has communion. They partake in rememberance of Jesus. That depends on how you see it. Was jesus actually making that Bread into his body, or was he saying, This is my body symbolically…thats part of the great debate isn’t it?
Right. And if you are on the wrong side of the debate through no fault of your own, then you may still be saved.
 
Look here’s the main question: how far can we knowingly stray from the Truth and still be saved? The Cathars and Gnostics believed in Jesus but they also taught a bunch of other weird stuff. The Cathars even got their doctrines from their strangely translated version of the Bible.

I mean, Christ has one Truth, the fullness of which subsists in the Catholic Church. The farther from the Church you get, the farther from Christ’s Truth you get. In God’s great mercy, He does not hold those accountable who are removed from full communion with the Truth through no fault of their own.

Debating those differences in Truth that we believe would be hijacking this thread, but there are already many threads dealing with pretty much ever issue:)
 
Jesus Christ died for all of our sins…we are all sinners…we all fall short.

SL20-am I reading you correctly when you say
“The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church,”

Where in the bible does it say that?
 
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Genesis315:
Look here’s the main question: how far can we knowingly stray from the Truth and still be saved? The Cathars and Gnostics believed in Jesus but they also taught a bunch of other weird stuff. The Cathars even got their doctrines from their strangely translated version of the Bible.

I mean, Christ has one Truth, the fullness of which subsists in the Catholic Church. The farther from the Church you get, the farther from Christ’s Truth you get. In God’s great mercy, He does not hold those accountable who are removed from full communion with the Truth through no fault of their own.

Debating those differences in Truth that we believe would be hijacking this thread, but there are already many threads dealing with pretty much ever issue:)
So based on what you know of me from this thread, if because of what I believe now, am I at fault?
 
Also Genesis,

I just read John 6, and I am going to see what the Pastor at Calvary says about that, and their stance on it.
 
Calvary teaches that because Jesus died on the cross, he forgives all of our sins, past, present, and future, if we are saved, and live out life for him.
 
Chazz, I am going to recommend to you the same three things I recommended to a young woman named Harriet on another thread.
  1. Learn about your faith. . .not Calvary Chapel, but the Catholic faith. What Calvary teaches is a mixture of truths they took from the Catholic–the first, original and BEST Christian faith–Church and their–repeat, their interpretation of what they THINK Catholics (meaning Christians) do WRONG and what they think THEY do RIGHT. So Chazz, go online and read “The Catechism of the Catholic Church” at christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html
    Right now you are having trouble because one group of people is telling you ONE thing, and you don’t know your own faith well enough to know where they are going “off”. And some of what they say sounds “easier” or “more tolerant” or “more likable”, and some of what they offer is so seductive, so alluring, than the “dry as dust” teachings that you don’t even really understand.
  2. Pray. Every day. You can Google “Catholic Prayers” to say Acts of Faith, Hope and Love, I’m sure you still know your Our Father and Hail Mary so you can say a rosary. These sites, www.liturgyhours.org and www.universalis are not only rich in history, you will see that the Catholic Church is the one which “prays daily” according to BIBLICAL teaching; you will read psalms and scripture several times a day.
  3. Now that you are learning what your faith actually is, and praying to God every day, LIVE YOUR FAITH by acting on it. Start with doing something positive, like almsgiving (biblically recommended), or speaking charitably, or refraining from bad actions. Add on, as you grow in faith, little “penances” (just as Jesus told us to do), such as not taking a dessert or not buying a new CD, and using the money instead for the poor.
But do yourself a favor. . .do not “jump ship” from a faith which you have not yourself thoroughly understood, thoroughly lived, or thoroughly prayed in. OK?
 
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BrotherChazz:
Tantum,

Isn’t Salvation through Jesus Christ…and not neccessarily through the Catholic Church?
The Church is the Body of Christ. The question of course is whether the Church can be simply identified with the Roman Communion. I think not–not simply. But there does seem to be a connection.

Edwin
 
Tantum ergo:
Chazz, I am going to recommend to you the same three things I recommended to a young woman named Harriet on another thread.
  1. Learn about your faith. . .not Calvary Chapel, but the Catholic faith. What Calvary teaches is a mixture of truths they took from the Catholic–the first, original and BEST Christian faith–Church and their–repeat, their interpretation of what they THINK Catholics (meaning Christians) do WRONG and what they think THEY do RIGHT. So Chazz, go online and read “The Catechism of the Catholic Church” at christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html
    Right now you are having trouble because one group of people is telling you ONE thing, and you don’t know your own faith well enough to know where they are going “off”. And some of what they say sounds “easier” or “more tolerant” or “more likable”, and some of what they offer is so seductive, so alluring, than the “dry as dust” teachings that you don’t even really understand.
  2. Pray. Every day. You can Google “Catholic Prayers” to say Acts of Faith, Hope and Love, I’m sure you still know your Our Father and Hail Mary so you can say a rosary. These sites, www.liturgyhours.org and www.universalis are not only rich in history, you will see that the Catholic Church is the one which “prays daily” according to BIBLICAL teaching; you will read psalms and scripture several times a day.
  3. Now that you are learning what your faith actually is, and praying to God every day, LIVE YOUR FAITH by acting on it. Start with doing something positive, like almsgiving (biblically recommended), or speaking charitably, or refraining from bad actions. Add on, as you grow in faith, little “penances” (just as Jesus told us to do), such as not taking a dessert or not buying a new CD, and using the money instead for the poor.
But do yourself a favor. . .do not “jump ship” from a faith which you have not yourself thoroughly understood, thoroughly lived, or thoroughly prayed in. OK?
But from what I’ve seen so far, there aren’t like a million differences. Basically it’s differences in the sacraments. Does it say in the Bible that if I don’t go to confession with a priest, thats a mortal sin? You want me to read something a Catholic wrote. One side is offering me one opinion, and the other another opinion. I do pray to god. Several times a day. I fellowship with him a lot through the day. I don’t do it now, as I have in the past, through hail mary’s, but I also pray through other means. Prayer isn’t limited to the rosary.
 
BrotherChazz,
Basically I feel like it’s too much tradition, not enough learning.
Wow, I returned to the Catholic Church because I found protestant theology to be a mile wide and an inch deep. Such shallow Protestant theology I found wanting. There were some pockets of deep theology in protestantism, but for the most part, I found it to be nothing but “cheap grace” which failed to be compelling to me. So it seems we have totally different views of Catholicism. Yet, perhaps you are at the beginning of a journey that will end in you drawing similar conclusions and returning the the depth and richness of Catholicism.

As for your question:
So my question is, do Catholics think that only they will go to Heaven, or do they think all Christians will go to heaven?
Neither. There will be Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox in heaven, as well as some heathens. Yet, not all Christians will go to heaven. There will be those who say “Lord, Lord” that Jesus will say, “I did not know you.”
My feeling is that we are both taking different paths that lead to the same place. Would you say this is the wrong way to think about this?
I once held this view. I believe now that if one holds to indifferentism, the believe that all religions are equally truthfal and salvific, then you reduce your religion to a belief in nothing. There are no absolute truths in such a religious view. If it there is nothing that is absolutely true, your belief system is as solid as jello.

As for the Catholic teaching on salvation (soteriology), *one must be joined *to Christ and his Church. Yet…

United in body, not in soul - One can be joined visibly (in body, baptized Christian) and not follow God’s will (not join in soul, sinfully defiant of God’s commands). These are not destined for heaven so long as they remain impenitent of their sinful defiance. This is the case of a sinful Christian, one fallen from grace.

United in soul, not in body - One can be joined in soul, but through no fault of their own, not have been baptized a Christian, not joined visibly to Christ’s Church. These are joined to the same ark of salvation as all those who will go to heaven. Because it is the position of the soul that matter, not merely that of the body. This is the case of someone like Cornelius in Acts 10, a “God-fearing” pagan who is not yet a Christian, yet is joined in a real yet unconscious way to the Body of Christ by the manner in which they live.

United in body and soul - Of course, God desires that both body and soul be joined to Christ and His Church. Such are those who know and follow the will of God, and become baptized into His Church and follow his commands. This is the case of saints, which is possible for every Christian.

to be continued …
 
continued…

Pius XII rejected the Feeneyist view that did not consider as valid a certain “unconscious desire” to be joined to Christ and his Church:
Letter of the Holy Office, approved and promulgated by Pius XII (August 8, 1949), against the dissent and disobedience of Fr. Leonard Feeney from the Archdiocese of Boston:
the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate [Feeneyism] controversy arose from the fact that the [doctrinal matters were] not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the [Feeneyist movement] refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities…
… dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.

… no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

… that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

… this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God. … the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire. … those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, he mentions those who “are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire,” and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation… But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith…

… Hence, one cannot understand how the [Feeneyists] can consistently claim to be a Catholic school and wish to be accounted such, and yet not conform to the prescriptions of … the Code of Canon Law, and continue to exist as a source of discord and rebellion against ecclesiastical authority and as a source of the disturbance of many consciences.

Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute … presents himself as a “Defender of the Faith,” and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities, and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church…

Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after “Rome has spoken” they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church “only by an unconscious desire.” Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation."
 
BrotherChazz,

Your pastor teaches…
Calvary teaches that because Jesus died on the cross, he forgives all of our sins, past, present, and future, if we are saved, and live out life for him.
I agree with this. However, I’m betting your pastor and I disagree as to what “if we are saved, and live out [our] life for him” means.

To a Catholic, Jesus wants you to join the Church he founded specifically for your spiritual needs, not the one Luther founded, Calvin founded, or founded by John Smyth (founder of of the first Baptist Church).

For Catholicism, “living out our life for Him” means living it united to Him and the Church He established, not a church founded by mere mortals. Schism is a sin against charity. Heresy is a sin against faith. These an other grave sins are not what Catholicism consideres “living out our life for Him.”
 
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BrotherChazz:
Calvary teaches that because Jesus died on the cross, he forgives all of our sins, past, present, and future, if we are saved, and live out life for him.
Wow, what a wonderful teaching!!! It teaches that there is no sin!!! I love it!!! I can do absolutely anything I want since Jesus has forgiven my “future” sins!!! There is no sin then!!! Amen, as Martin Luther taught, we can (and should) sin and much as we like!!! Actually if we don’t sin, we’re questioning His forgiveness aren’t we??? We’d better get out there and sin then!!! What a concept!!! Do you see the folly in these teachings? They are what “we” want, not what God wants. I recommend you read Martin Luther’s writings, as much as you can, his faults are abundant and basic. And don’t ask your pastor for his thoughts on them, ask the Holy Spirit.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
BrotherChazz,
You pastor teaches…

I agree with this. However, I’m betting your pastor and I disagree as to what “if we are saved, and live out [our] life for him” means.

To a Catholic, Jesus wants you to join the Church he founded, not the one Luther founded, Calvin founded, or founded by John Smyth (founder of of the first Baptist Church).

For Catholicism, living out our life for Him means living it united to Him and the Church he founded, not a Church founded by mere mortals. Schism is a sin against Charity. Heresy is a sin against faith. These an other grave sins are not what Catholicism consideres “living out our life for Him.”
Dave I thank you so much for your responce. Can you point out to me in the Bible where Jesus discusses a need to be a part of his church versus other churches? Or anything similar to that that I can see the Biblical evicence. I’ve already read John 6, but that doesn;t talk about the Church itself.
 
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