It would be a false Christ saying such a thing. There are many false Christs and those with itching ears listen to them, and do not obey the legitimate God-given authority of the Church.My question was where does Jesus (not someone else) say in the Bible that reincarnation is not possible.
I guess the answer to my other question is that if the Christ returns soon (which I am sure he will in a couple of years) and says that reincarnation is a fact, you will then reject the Christ in favor of Paul and the Church? Is that correct?
He doesn’t need to specifically address reincarnation for us to know it isn’t a possibility. The failure in your logic is trying to assume if something isn’t specifically addressed and denied, than it might be true. It’s like asking why won’t God make pizza rain showers because the gospel never says we can’t so maybe we can. Jesus tells us what will happen after we die and tells us how to follow Him. All of the gospels speak as if talking about one life. The only afterlife we can look forward to is the one with God. I think the major difference between Christians and many other religions is that our love for God and desire to be with Him after death drives us. If we start desiring more time on earth than allotted, whether it’s by searching for a ‘fountain of youth’ or hoping for another life, we are failing to love God enough to desire heaven. Or, we fear His judgment and wish to put it off. Both traits separate us from God. Reincarnation isn’t possible for Christians, not only because it isn’t in the gospels, but because to desire such a thing goes against what it means to be Christian and to desire to be in God’s presence. Read the gospels for yourself and you will find that this is not a possibility for Christians, if you truly understand what it means to be Christian.My question was where does Jesus (not someone else) say in the Bible that reincarnation is not possible.
I guess the answer to my other question is that if the Christ returns soon (which I am sure he will in a couple of years) and says that reincarnation is a fact, you will then reject the Christ in favor of Paul and the Church? Is that correct?
And this makes perfect sense if one if fortunate enough to be born into a Christian country with Christian beliefs as the dominant framework for the entire ordering of society. People can claim all they want that the West is a secular society, but it is just as much a Christian society and we in the West can hardly even conceive of a society without the influence of Christianity, it is just part of our make-up and we are exposed to Christian teachings and influence no matter what we do. People in other countries do not have this. Maybe they might here about Jesus once or twice, but they are about as likely to encounter Christianity as you are to encounter true Mahayana Buddhism and practicing Mahayana Buddhist, and Christianity makes about as much sense to them as Mahayana Buddhism makes to you. So you get the incredibly good fortune of being born in a Christian country while God punishes most of the world for all eternity simply based upon the lottery of birth and geography. This turns God into a monster and something that I feel makes a mockery of Jesus’s message of love and compassion. Either we all get an equal opportunity shot of becoming Christian, or God is playing dirty pool. I think this is spiritual arrogance of the highest sort, and the Church also no longer teaches that Salvation only comes through the Church or even Christianity.The Precious Blood of Jesus is enough for one life!
It is great that you are so sure of yourself. But at least you admit that Jesus never said anything about reincarnation.He doesn’t need to specifically address reincarnation for us to know it isn’t a possibility. The failure in your logic is trying to assume if something isn’t specifically addressed and denied, than it might be true. It’s like asking why won’t God make pizza rain showers because the gospel never says we can’t so maybe we can. Jesus tells us what will happen after we die and tells us how to follow Him. All of the gospels speak as if talking about one life. The only afterlife we can look forward to is the one with God. I think the major difference between Christians and many other religions is that our love for God and desire to be with Him after death drives us. If we start desiring more time on earth than allotted, whether it’s by searching for a ‘fountain of youth’ or hoping for another life, we are failing to love God enough to desire heaven. Or, we fear His judgment and wish to put it off. Both traits separate us from God. Reincarnation isn’t possible for Christians, not only because it isn’t in the gospels, but because to desire such a thing goes against what it means to be Christian and to desire to be in God’s presence. Read the gospels for yourself and you will find that this is not a possibility for Christians, if you truly understand what it means to be Christian.
The second part of your response is a very odd, hypothetical question. We follow Jesus Christ. Period. He has told us enough about His second coming that I don’t think anyone is going to be asking to stick around on earth instead of going with Him. He gave us the Holy Spirit to guide His Church on earth and, so far, the rules haven’t changed. If the Holy Spirit guides the Church in a different direction, than we will follow. I don’t expect they will because it would go against everything he has taught us so far (and against our love of God and desire for God).
Additionally, you must understand, not just the gospels, which are very important, but also the Old Testament, which predicted the events in the gospel. Jesus did not do anything that was unexpected, if you read what the prophets wrote. The suggestion that He would completely reverse His own teachings and the entire foundation on which His teachings were built on seems not only improbable, but ridiculous.
The mockery of Christ’s message of love and compassion would be assuming that His sacrifice applies only to Christians; and God would only be a monster if your above faulty understanding of what the Church actually teaches were true.And this makes perfect sense if one if fortunate enough to be born into a Christian country with Christian beliefs as the dominant framework for the entire ordering of society. People can claim all they want that the West is a secular society, but it is just as much a Christian society and we in the West can hardly even conceive of a society without the influence of Christianity, it is just part of our make-up and we are exposed to Christian teachings and influence no matter what we do. People in other countries do not have this. Maybe they might here about Jesus once or twice, but they are about as likely to encounter Christianity as you are to encounter true Mahayana Buddhism and practicing Mahayana Buddhist, and Christianity makes about as much sense to them as Mahayana Buddhism makes to you. So you get the incredibly good fortune of being born in a Christian country while God punishes most of the world for all eternity simply based upon the lottery of birth and geography. This turns God into a monster and something that I feel makes a mockery of Jesus’s message of love and compassion. Either we all get an equal opportunity shot of becoming Christian, or God is playing dirty pool. I think this is spiritual arrogance of the highest sort, and the Church also no longer teaches that Salvation only comes through the Church or even Christianity.
I think that pretty much answers my question. A Christ who corrects any of the Church teachings will be rejected by many Catholics and discarded as an imposter. Perhaps their allegiance is more to the Church and dogma rather than the Christ himself?It would be a false Christ saying such a thing. There are many false Christs and those with itching ears listen to them, and do not obey the legitimate God-given authority of the Church.
The Precious Blood of Jesus is enough for one life!
Or perhaps the individual that claims to be Christ and who contradicts Christ’s own teachings really isn’t Christ. But please tell us more about how you can invalidate the Church without invalidating Christ given that what we know of Christ and His teachings (i.e. the Bible) are a product of the Church. Either the Church is safeguarded from error in regards to the teachings of Christ (which would invalidate your argument) or the Church can make errors in regards to the teachings of Christ (which invalidates the source documents for your argument; and therefore your argument).I think that pretty much answers my question. A Christ who corrects any of the Church teachings will be rejected by many Catholics and discarded as an imposter. Perhaps their allegiance is more to the Church and dogma rather than the Christ himself?
It might help to know how the Church views public revelation.I think that pretty much answers my question. A Christ who corrects any of the Church teachings will be rejected by many Catholics and discarded as an imposter. Perhaps their allegiance is more to the Church and dogma rather than the Christ himself?
There will be no further Revelation
66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
“In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.”
I am not saying God punishes them. Even the Catechism does not say that. “Those who through no fault of their own…” Look it up.And this makes perfect sense if one if fortunate enough to be born into a Christian country with Christian beliefs as the dominant framework for the entire ordering of society. People can claim all they want that the West is a secular society, but it is just as much a Christian society and we in the West can hardly even conceive of a society without the influence of Christianity, it is just part of our make-up and we are exposed to Christian teachings and influence no matter what we do. People in other countries do not have this. Maybe they might here about Jesus once or twice, but they are about as likely to encounter Christianity as you are to encounter true Mahayana Buddhism and practicing Mahayana Buddhist, and Christianity makes about as much sense to them as Mahayana Buddhism makes to you. So you get the incredibly good fortune of being born in a Christian country while God punishes most of the world for all eternity simply based upon the lottery of birth and geography. This turns God into a monster and something that I feel makes a mockery of Jesus’s message of love and compassion. Either we all get an equal opportunity shot of becoming Christian, or God is playing dirty pool. I think this is spiritual arrogance of the highest sort, and the Church also no longer teaches that Salvation only comes through the Church or even Christianity.
There was a time when the Church believed the Sun revolved around the Earth and that the Earth was flat. Of course the Church can make errors.Or perhaps the individual that claims to be Christ and who contradicts Christ’s own teachings really isn’t Christ. But please tell us more about how you can invalidate the Church without invalidating Christ given that what we know of Christ and His teachings (i.e. the Bible) are a product of the Church. Either the Church is safeguarded from error in regards to the teachings of Christ (which would invalidate your argument) or the Church can make errors in regards to the teachings of Christ (which invalidates the source documents for your argument; and therefore your argument).
We need to put our Lord Jesus Christ first, and trust in the infallibility of the Magisterium with regards to faith and morals, out of love for Him, and trust in Him.I think that pretty much answers my question. A Christ who corrects any of the Church teachings will be rejected by many Catholics and discarded as an imposter. Perhaps their allegiance is more to the Church and dogma rather than the Christ himself?
That was never an official Church teaching about such things. It was supposed by the knowledge of the times and the ability of science to detect.There was a time when the Church believed the Sun revolved around the Earth and that the Earth was flat. Of course the Church can make errors.
Just because there are some errors in a book does not invalidated the Church or the whole book.
“no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Chris” - this is just saying that there will be no revelation before the Second Coming.It might help to know how the Church views public revelation.
I think you really mean, we should put the infallibility of the Magisterium first and the Christ second.We need to put our Lord Jesus Christ first, and trust in the infallibility of the Magisterium with regards to faith and morals, out of love for Him, and trust in Him.
I think that pretty much answers my question. A Christ who corrects any of the Church teachings will be rejected by many Catholics and discarded as an imposter. Perhaps their allegiance is more to the Church and dogma rather than the Christ himself?
Jesus taught that in the days to come there would be many false prophets:I think you really mean, we should put the infallibility of the Magisterium first and the Christ second.
Why would my plan be to reject everything He said or will say? The Church dogma and the Words of Christ cannot be changed.“no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Chris” - this is just saying that there will be no revelation before the Second Coming.
However, if in the Second Coming itself, the Returned Christ expands on his previous teachings, is your plan to just reject everything he says? Is the Church dogma more important than the words of the Christ?
The Christ will not change anything that he himself has said before, but he will correct the interpretations that humans have made of his words (even going so far as to imagining that he ever said anything about reincarnation)
Your assumption is that your correctly understand what He said before and better than the Church. Why would anyone believe that? And I am positive God has it in hand as the Kingdom already exists. I don’t know what you mean “precisely” with reincarnation. You mean spirits of the passed existing or existing in the physical realm twice as a human?The Christ will not change anything that he himself has said before, but he will correct the interpretations that humans have made of his words (even going so far as to imagining that he ever said anything about reincarnation)
This is quite true. I just hope that when the Christ returns, you don’t mistake the real one for one of the false prophets.Jesus taught that in the days to come there would be many false prophets:
It is nice to be so sure of yourself (actually Muslims believe exactly the same thing about the Koran, Bahai’s believe the same thing about their tablets, Mormons believe the same thing about their ‘Book’ - do you think they are all correct?).… it is not possible for a future “Christ” to correct the Church because there can be no error to be corrected…
Reincarnate based philosophy defines salvation as coming from oneself. Enlightenment is the objective, which is a self generated event.My question was where does Jesus (not someone else) say in the Bible that reincarnation is not possible.
I guess the answer to my other question is that if the Christ returns soon (which I am sure he will in a couple of years) and says that reincarnation is a fact, you will then reject the Christ in favor of Paul and the Church? Is that correct?
Sure of myself? Hardly. I depend on God.It is great that you are so sure of yourself. But at least you admit that Jesus never said anything about reincarnation.
I am afraid you are in for a real shock if the Christ does return soon and corrects the mistakes the Church has made over the years especially about reincarnation. He will not be reversing his teachings - he never said anything about there being only one life. (I notice you like using lots of words, but pizza showers??)
I did not say you would reject ‘everything’ or that the Words of the Christ will be changed. I am saying that if the Christ corrects any of the Church’s mistakes, you will reject him.Why would my plan be to reject everything He said or will say? The Church dogma and the Words of Christ cannot be changed.
Of course, you should not take my word for anything. I am just saying you should be ready to accept anything that the Christ says (when he returns), even if it contradicts Church teachings. Maybe he will explain to you much better than I can, what reincarnation means.Your assumption is that your correctly understand what He said before and better than the Church. Why would anyone believe that? And I am positive God has it in hand as the Kingdom already exists. I don’t know what you mean “precisely” with reincarnation. You mean spirits of the passed existing or existing in the physical realm twice as a human?