Do Catholics believe Protestants are going to hell?

[paul_c]

You are right in that we do not have to choose between the two. We can however follow Jesus Christ and love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength outside of the CC as well. The notion that loving Him outside of the CC is a construct of the dark one’s smoke and mirrors is wrong in my assumption.

May God bless you.
In Him,
Janet

Well, you might not think its important but you are separating yourself from the grace that abounds in the sacraments, particularly in the Eucharist. Remember what Jesus said in John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever

 

[Janet1983]

Well, you might not think its important but you are separating yourself from the grace that abounds in the sacraments, particularly in the Eucharist. Remember what Jesus said in John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.​

I am not quite sure whether I understood your intentions right, so please bear with me if I don’t. I will try to answer you as far as I understood it.

John 6:33-35
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Eternal life comes through believing in Jesus Christ. But here is a little more:

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you.
Your sister in Christ,
Janet

 

[paul_c]

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.​

​

I am not quite sure whether I understood your intentions right, so please bear with me if I don’t. I will try to answer you as far as I understood it.

John 6:33-35
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Eternal life comes through believing in Jesus Christ. But here is a little more:

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you.
Your sister in Christ,
Janet

So you are selectively reading what you want to read. He is clear, you need to eat his body and Drink his blood to gain heaven. That is the eucharist… and just as you copied above. some couldn’t accept it But I Notice that you didn’t take line 63 to its natural conclusion:

62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
65 And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
67 Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?”
71 He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve

Notice that many left him rather than accept the eucharistic teaching. Just like you? .

 

[Janet1983]

Notice that many left him rather than accept the eucharistic teaching. Just like you? .

Maybe I’m just not seeing it, but where does the part after 63 turn around the fact that it is not a physical presence, but in remembrance of Him?

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

How would that prove that there is not true submission to the Lord, love of the Lord and obedience to Him outside of the CC?

May God bless you.
You sister in Christ,
Janet

 

[PRmerger]

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The flesh profiteth nothing, but HIS flesh purchased our redemption.

Clearly, Christ was not referring to* his* flesh. His eucharistic flesh.

And clearly, it was not a symbolic gesture to which he was referring–else why would his disciples leave over a mere analogy? And why would Jesus not correct them if they had indeed understood him incorrectly? Instead, Jesus simply asks his apostles, “Are you going to leave me, as well?”

Indeed, many have left Him over this hard saying. :sad_yes:

 

[Cristian_B]

The flesh profiteth nothing, but HIS flesh purchased our redemption.

Clearly, Christ was not referring to* his* flesh. His eucharistic flesh.

And clearly, it was not a symbolic gesture to which he was referring–else why would his disciples leave over a mere analogy? And why would Jesus not correct them if they had indeed understood him incorrectly? Instead, Jesus simply asks his apostles, “Are you going to leave me, as well?”

Indeed, many have left Him over this hard saying. :sad_yes:

Looks like the bread and the cup have a lot of symbolism. But do not get me wrong: it is necessary to take the Lord’s supper. I am saying that like always: Jesus is more spiritual about His body and blood and is talking in metaphors and parables. I feel that I must repeat myself: I am not saying that we shouldn’t take the Lord’s supper; because we should and we must. But I’m saying that it is more than it looks like.

Understanding the bread of the Lord’s Supper

Understanding the cup of the Lord’s Supper

If you are in a hurry, this is a summary:

Summarizing the bread & cup of the Lord’s Supper

 

[PRmerger]

Looks like the bread and the cup have a lot of symbolism.

We are talking about John 6. What cup is mentioned there?

Jesus is more spiritual about His body and blood and is talking in metaphors and parables.

Then why did he not call his disciples back when they took him literally and left him over this “parable”?

 

[Cristian_B]

We are talking about John 6. What cup is mentioned there?

It mentions blood. The cup represents the blood.

Then why did he not call his disciples back when they took him literally and left him over this “parable”?

I believe this is the reason why almost the hole Bible is written in poetry, metaphors, parables, riddles, etc. The bible is closed with a key for the unbelievers. And only Jesus has that “key” and He gives it to whom He wishes. Look what God said:

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

Jesus gives this “key” to “open their eyes” to all those who seek Him “with all their hearts”. The Bible contains mysteries “hidden from the beginning of the world” and that have been “unlocked” trough parables. But only those who seek God with all their hearts will understand these parables finally. They are not available for unbelievers, because He wishes a sincere heart. He gives you the necessary and with time your knowledge expands.

Those disciples abandoned him because they weren’t seeking God with all their strength. They didn’t read “between the lines”. They perceived what He said as what it appears to be, and didn’t study His words further. So it was not Jesus fault when the disciples abandoned Him. It was their unbelief that made them go. They used their human wisdom, instead of God’s wisdom. They judged by appearances, and not by justice. I believe you get my point. They are locked in parables and metaphors for a reason. Only a sincere heart can unlock their hidden knowledge.

 

[PRmerger]

I believe this is the reason why almost the hole Bible is written in poetry, metaphors, parables, riddles, etc. The bible is closed with a key for the unbelievers. And only Jesus has that “key” and He gives it to whom He wishes. Look what God said:

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

Jesus gives this “key” to “open their eyes” to all those who seek Him “with all their hearts”. The Bible contains mysteries “hidden from the beginning of the world” and that have been “unlocked” trough parables. But only those who seek God with all their hearts will understand these parables finally. They are not available for unbelievers, because He wishes a sincere heart. He gives you the necessary and with time your knowledge expands.

Those disciples abandoned him because they weren’t seeking God with all their strength. They didn’t read “between the lines”. They perceived what He said as what it appears to be, and didn’t study His words further. So it was not Jesus fault when the disciples abandoned Him. It was their unbelief that made them go. They used their human wisdom, instead of God’s wisdom. They judged by appearances, and not by justice. I believe you get my point. They are locked in parables and metaphors for a reason. Only a sincere heart can unlock their hidden knowledge.

I’m not sure how that answers my question:

If Jesus was speaking symbolically in John 6, and his disciples misunderstood him to be speaking literally (like you say Catholics do), then why did Jesus not correct them before they left and say, “Hey, guys! Come back here! Of course I didn’t mean you have to literally eat my flesh!”???

 

[paul_c]

It mentions blood. The cup represents the blood.

I believe this is the reason why almost the hole Bible is written in poetry, metaphors, parables, riddles, etc. The bible is closed with a key for the unbelievers. And only Jesus has that “key” and He gives it to whom He wishes. Look what God said:

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

Jesus gives this “key” to “open their eyes” to all those who seek Him “with all their hearts”. The Bible contains mysteries “hidden from the beginning of the world” and that have been “unlocked” trough parables. But only those who seek God with all their hearts will understand these parables finally. They are not available for unbelievers, because He wishes a sincere heart. He gives you the necessary and with time your knowledge expands.

Those disciples abandoned him because they weren’t seeking God with all their strength. They didn’t read “between the lines”. They perceived what He said as what it appears to be, and didn’t study His words further. So it was not Jesus fault when the disciples abandoned Him. It was their unbelief that made them go. They used their human wisdom, instead of God’s wisdom. They judged by appearances, and not by justice. I believe you get my point. They are locked in parables and metaphors for a reason. Only a sincere heart can unlock their hidden knowledge.

Christian, this arugment is unconvincing. All it does is open up the doors for you to interpret the bible any way you want. In reality, it needs to be interpreted in the same way it was written: in the context of the Catholic Faith. Otherwise, scripture can be twisted to say just about anything. Afterall, even Satan used scripture in tempting Jesus in the desert after Jesus’ baptism.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

It mentions blood. The cup represents the blood.

I believe this is the reason why almost the hole Bible is written in poetry, metaphors, parables, riddles, etc. The bible is closed with a key for the unbelievers. And only Jesus has that “key” and He gives it to whom He wishes. Look what God said:

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

[SIGN]Jesus gives this “key[/SIGN]” to “open their eyes” to all those who seek Him “with all their hearts”. The Bible contains mysteries “hidden from the beginning of the world” and that have been “unlocked” trough parables. But only those who seek God with all their hearts will understand these parables finally. They are not available for unbelievers, because He wishes a sincere heart. He gives you the necessary and with time your knowledge expands.

Those disciples abandoned him because they weren’t seeking God with all their strength. They didn’t read “between the lines”. They perceived what He said as what it appears to be, and didn’t study His words further. So it was not Jesus fault when the disciples abandoned Him. It was their unbelief that made them go. They used their human wisdom, instead of God’s wisdom. They judged by appearances, and not by justice. I believe you get my point. They are locked in parables and metaphors for a reason. Only a sincere heart can unlock their hidden knowledge.

Yes Jesus did give the key, he gave the keys to Peter to lead the Church. Jesus never said that we had Gods Wisdom did he? If he did I would like to see that in the bible or ST. I actually recall the gospel telling us that we all have different gifts not all the same. If we all had the Power of the HS to define scripture we would see scripture exactly the same way would you not agree, Because there is only ONE true way to understand scripture. It is not different for everyone, the HS bounds us together not tear us apart.

In order to define scripture you must have the Power of the Holy Spirit to do so, The Pope has the keys to the kingdom to do so. We do not.

 

[Cristian_B]

Yes Jesus did give the key, he gave the keys to Peter to lead the Church. Jesus never said that we had Gods Wisdom did he? If he did I would like to see that in the bible or ST.

Yes, he did. Jesus has His Father’s wisdom.

Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. John 5:19

If the Father is wise, then the Son is wise. If the Father is all-powerful, then the Son as well, etc. If this, in your opinion is not enough, then I have more proof.

All I have is yours, and all you have is mine… John 17:10

…He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what He hears… John 16:13

All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. John 16:15

All that is the Father’s is the Son’s and all that is the Sons’ is the Spirit’s. All the Father’s wisdom is the Son’s wisdom, and all the Son’s wisdom is the Spirit’s wisdom.

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26

He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. John 32:34

Jesus did not speak on His own, but He told us what His [our] Father told Him. The Spirit does not speak on His own, but He reminds us what Jesus told us. Saying that He reminds us Jesus’ Words, is like saying that He reminds us God’s Words, because they are One.

Saying that Jesus did not have God’s wisdom, is arguing whether He has everything the Father has or not. So He has the Father’s wisdom. Of course, Jesus’ source of wisdom is the Father, if that is what you meant. I gave you proof from the bible, which is the maximum authority, and I believe we agree on this.

I actually recall the gospel telling us that we all have different gifts not all the same. If we all had the Power of the HS to define scripture we would see scripture exactly the same way would you not agree, Because there is only ONE true way to understand scripture. It is not different for everyone, the HS bounds us together not tear us apart.In order to define scripture you must have the Power of the Holy Spirit to do so, The Pope has the keys to the kingdom to do so. We do not.

It is true that we all have different gifts, but the truth is given to all. Read 1 Corinthians 12:8-11. We all have different gifts: “to one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues”. It is not only one who can speak about knowledge or wisdom, but many. All have wisdom and all have knowledge: but some have more than others. My question is: how do you know whether my interpretation is correct or not? How do you know I do not have the gift of interpreting Scripture?

The Holy Spirit is the key to many things, including the interpreting of Scriptures. Wherever is the Holy Spirit, there is freedom and as Jesus said: the Truth frees us. When someone interprets the Scriptures he does so in order to discover the Truth. Therefore, the Truth is available to all. If interpretation of Scripture is not available to all, then reading the Bible is completely and absolutely useless, because when you read you interpret.

…Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13

The Holy Spirit doesn’t directly give you the truth, but guides you in your journey of discovering the truth. It is written that we must investigate or test everything, and hold fast to which is good and not blindly accept things. We must investigate everything is told to us, because humans can err.

 

[paul_c]

Cristian B:
The fact that Jesus knows what the father knows is not the issue. The issue is that individual interpretation of the bible outside the context in which it was written is invalid. That is why there are litterally thousands of “bible” churches, all with their own unique scriptural interpretations. Your statement that we all know the truth rings completely hollow with that fact in mind.

You bring up these two quotes: lets consider them.

…Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32

This was in response to " the Jews" who were questioning him about his authority and his claims of being the light of the world. It says to hold to his teachings, the very teachings that he passed down as Catholic Tradition. Have you not separated yourself from these teachings in favor of your own view?

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13

This was from the discourse where he predicts the persecution of his church and his own passion… He is telling them to hold firm and that the Spirit of truth will help them. He is speaking of Pentecost, not telling you that every man will be able to accurately interpret scripture.

 

[rinnie]

Cristian B:
The fact that Jesus knows what the father knows is not the issue. The issue is that individual interpretation of the bible outside the context in which it was written is invalid. That is why there are litterally thousands of “bible” churches, all with their own unique scriptural interpretations. Your statement that we all know the truth rings completely hollow with that fact in mind.

You bring up these two quotes: lets consider them.

This was in response to " the Jews" who were questioning him about his authority and his claims of being the light of the world. It says to hold to his teachings, the very teachings that he passed down as Catholic Tradition. Have you not separated yourself from these teachings in favor of your own view?

This was from the discourse where he predicts the persecution of his church and his own passion… He is telling them to hold firm and that the Spirit of truth will help them. He is speaking of Pentecost, not telling you that every man will be able to accurately interpret scripture.

Thank-you Paul for explaining this to her and so clear and simple. Thats what I like best

Alot of times I see that people think that every time Jesus spoke in the bible they take that scripture out of context and relate it directly to them. While some scripure I agree is spoken directly to us. Others are not. As we have just seen.

When Jesus promised the Advocate the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, he did not say that we could all define scripture. I see this is one of the biggest problems we have from those outside the CC. They feel that they all have the Power of the Holy SPirit to do ALL things. WHich is just not true.

They do not understand they you and I have no authority either to define scripture but the Church does. As I stated holds the keys. No us!

 

[Cristian_B]

…] her …]

Her? If, by chance, you were talking about me, then I must inform you that I am a male. I always thought “Cristian” was a name given to men. Am I wrong? If yes, please correct me.

Thank you and, may God bless you!

 

[rinnie]

Her? If, by chance, you were talking about me, then I must inform you that I am a male. I always thought “Cristian” was a name given to men. Am I wrong? If yes, please correct me.

Thank you and, may God bless you!

Sorry my bad:blush: Actually can say I have never heard of your name before. But as far as you being wrong, Well today who knows Names are not like that used to be thats for sure.
But my bad. Again sorry

 

[CPA2]

“I am asking if you beleive that anyone who does not have an abiding faith in Jesus as the Christ will, because of their lack of faith, be denied heaven?”

I am not into salvation theology. I am too ignorant of personal situations to even broach the subject. I do know, however, that we have to know that something is a serious sin to commit a mortal sin. If I denied Jesus, and did not repent, I am sure that I would go to hell. (Repentance was the difference between Judas and St. Peter.) I have had every opportunity in the world to know, love and serve God, and to follow Jesus. I am also certain that some of my Hindu friends, who do not know Jesus, are close to the Kingdom of God.

Catholics believe that the truth from the Holy Spirit must be honored wherever it is found. Neither the Catholic Church, nor other Christian churches, is the only one to possess truth. Other religions, especially the Jewish faith, share many essential traditions with Christianity. However, I would think that our intimacy with Jesus would make finding the truth a little bit easier.

I am sorry that I cannot answer all of your questions completely. God is a mystery. I am just a child of God. I am searching for the absolute truth, truth with a capital “T,” just like you are.

 

[Louemma]

Do Catholics believe Protestants are going to hell?Do Protestants believe Catholics are going to hell?
Funny things people discuss.
People don’t forget there is only one who sits in judgement.All the judgments passed here are vain thoughts of men!

 

[paul_c]

Do Catholics believe Protestants are going to hell?Do Protestants believe Catholics are going to hell?
Funny things people discuss.
People don’t forget there is only one who sits in judgement.All the judgments passed here are vain thoughts of men!

If you had read this thread, you would know the question was brought up by one of your sister evangelical christians and that the Catholics said that they can’t judge anyone individually but that they worry about our Protestant Brethren who forsake the grace bearing sacraments available only in the Catholic Church.

 

[Robert_Michael]

If you had read this thread, you would know the question was brought up by one of your sister evangelical christians and that the Catholics said that they can’t judge anyone individually but that they worry about our Protestant Brethren who forsake the grace bearing sacraments available only in the Catholic Church.

I believe that it is heavily implied that Protestants are on the same line as even atheists, and that they are just as lost. A lot of Catholics try to sugar coat it by saying they hope some Protestants will be saved, while the implication is that they, unfortunately, will not be.