Do Catholics despise Anglicans?

[mercygate]

It seems to me that Catholics seem to have more of a disliking for The Anglican Communion than for anyone else, even Lutherans. Why is this? Is is because the Anglican reformers in the 16th century kept most of the RC form of worship when they split from Rome? Is it because of King Henry or Queen Elizabeth II? Or possibly could it be that Anglicans actually profess the Eucharist to be exactly what RC’s believe that it is?

I was an Anglican for 40 years. One of the reasons I am Catholic is that the kindness and welcoming hearts I found among Catholics spoke of their respect for my tradition, which was for many of them “more” Catholic than theirs!

 

[paarsurrey]

I was an Anglican for 40 years. One of the reasons I am Catholic is that the kindness and welcoming hearts I found among Catholics spoke of their respect for my tradition, which was for many of them “more” Catholic than theirs!

Hi
It is good that you had been Anglican for 40 long years and you are Catholic now. Why don’t you play a role for merging both Anglicans and Catholics into **one in truth **by resolving petty issues and make a historic event, may be it later unites all the Christian denominations into one Christendom.
May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
Thanks

GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth. Kindly let God speak for Claim and Reason and you would know the truth for sure.In truth we unite.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
What happened in the 1500’s, by the way?

The “Anglican Church” regards itself derived not from Reformation influences but from the renunciation of Papal jurisdiction by King Henry VIII in 1534: With the “Act of Supremacy”, the King was declared the supreme head of the Church of England, with fullness of authority and jurisdiction
http://biblia.com/christianity2/3b-anglican.htm
Part of the problem that King Henry VIII had with the Catholic Church was that they would not allow him to divorce his first wife who was unable to give him a male child. But he got a divorce in defiance of the Church. He used execution a couple of times to dispose of wives who he was tired of. But by shedding the Catholic Church and appointing himself and the ultimate power he could do whatever he wanted.

After the separation of the Anglican Church from the Catholic Church it because illegal to be Catholic in England. Catholics were executed by the thousands in England. Wars broke out against the Catholics in Ireland. There was also Queen Mary who tried for a brief period to bring back the Catholic Church. She used violence too. IT was not a pretty situation and many on both sides lost their lives in brutal executions and war.
Here is a longer write-up of the history….

newadvent.org/cathen/05445a.htm

But like I said, no one today participated in this mess.

 

[mercygate]

Hi
It is good that you had been Anglican for 40 long years and you are Catholic now. Why don’t you play a role for merging both Anglicans and Catholics into **one in truth **by resolving petty issues and make a historic event, may be it later unites all the Christian denominations into one Christendom.
May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
Thanks

GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth. Kindly let God speak for Claim and Reason and you would know the truth for sure.In truth we unite.

I do work for union of Anglicans with Rome.

In truth we unite: agreed. You are kind to advise us how to approach the important issues that divide us. However, “the Book” that has been held to be the sole rule of faith, and which many sincere Christians believe is the ONLY source of the truth they hold, has spawned 30,000 protestant denominations in the United States alone. Anglicans who take runion with Rome seriously are smart enough to know that we need right reason and sacred Tradition as well as the living Holy Spirit as a guide.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
It is good that you had been Anglican for 40 long years and you are Catholic now. Why don’t you play a role for merging both Anglicans and Catholics into **one in truth **by resolving petty issues and make a historic event, may be it later unites all the Christian denominations into one Christendom…

There are a good number of Anglican priests who are now becoming Catholic priests. Since they are already married, the CC allows them to remain married as priests. I believe that i’ve heard of many Anglican parishes convirting to Catholicism. The unity is a good thing.

 

[paarsurrey]

But he got a divorce in defiance of the Church. He used execution a couple of times to dispose of wives who he was tired of. But by shedding the Catholic Church and appointing himself and the ultimate power he could do whatever he wanted.

Hi
It was a very sad incident of massacre of thousands of fellow religionists. Now it should be a matter of past and unity should be obtaind in truth. In truth we unite.
I think in very special circumstances divorce should be allowed. Divorce is now common in th West and also in the OTBible times; had it been allowed to the King, life of so many innocent persons would have been saved.
Thanks

GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth. Kindly let God speak for Claim and Reason and you would know the truth for sure.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
It was a very sad incident of massacre of thousands of fellow religionists. Now it should be a matter of past and unity should be obtaind in truth. In truth we unite.
I think in very special circumstances divorce should be allowed. Divorce is now common in th West and also in the OTBible times; had it been allowed to the King, life of so many innocent persons would have been saved.
Thanks.

It was sad and few if any hold it against people of today.

As for divorce, the Catholic Church allows it in the form of annulments in some cases. My husband got an annulment from his first marriage … the CC agreed that the marriage was never viable.

I disagree with you that a divorce should have been allowed to King Henry… now his wife should have been allowed a divorce because he was an a huge adulterer… a man who used women like old paper. Her death is not on the Church. He is the man who committed the sin.

I think that we should end the discussion of this with this post. I don’t want to muddy up this thread too much.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Quite a lot of English-speaking Catholics are of Irish descent–I don’t have the numbers, but at one point, they likely comprised the vast majority of Anglophone Catholicism. If a few modern Catholics seem to hold a special animus for Anglicanism, maybe it’s partly a set of inherited reflexes related to Ireland’s painful history with the British Empire–of which Anglicanism is the state church. That could certainly help explain some isolated cases of anti-Anglicanism.

 

[GKC]

The “Anglican Church” regards itself derived not from Reformation influences but from the renunciation of Papal jurisdiction by King Henry VIII in 1534: With the “Act of Supremacy”, the King was declared the supreme head of the Church of England, with fullness of authority and jurisdiction
http://biblia.com/christianity2/3b-anglican.htm
Part of the problem that King Henry VIII had with the Catholic Church was that they would not allow him to divorce his first wife who was unable to give him a male child. But he got a divorce in defiance of the Church. He used execution a couple of times to dispose of wives who he was tired of. But by shedding the Catholic Church and appointing himself and the ultimate power he could do whatever he wanted.

After the separation of the Anglican Church from the Catholic Church it because illegal to be Catholic in England. Catholics were executed by the thousands in England. Wars broke out against the Catholics in Ireland. There was also Queen Mary who tried for a brief period to bring back the Catholic Church. She used violence too. IT was not a pretty situation and many on both sides lost their lives in brutal executions and war.
Here is a longer write-up of the history….

newadvent.org/cathen/05445a.htm

But like I said, no one today participated in this mess.

Henry didn’t want a divorce. He wanted a decree of nullity, as was commonplace in those days, in dynastic marriages. His causa was not as strong as it could have been, being based on the Levitical prohibitions against marrying a brother’s wife, while a much stronger case would have been based on an undispensed impediment of the justice of public honesty in the original dispensation allowing him to marry Arthur’s brother in the first place. But either case was strong enough, as the system was then designed. The system of impediments, primarily of affinity or consanquinity, was designed to allow the making a breaking of marriages, for reasons of state, or personal convenience, while still maintaining the nature of matrimony as a sacrament.

Under most conditions, Henry would have recived his decree of nullity, as did many in like cases (his sister received two of them,
to permit marriages of political convenience). But Charles VII presence made things a little different.

GKC

 

[RevDrNorth]

I don’t think there is any real animosity. It is like the nun said to someone in this thread “they (Anglicans) are our closest cousins”.

Where I think you get some (little but some) is just over historical issues realted to the Church of England basically trying to replace (become) the Catholic Church in England. There has probably been some pomposity in years past on the part of Anglicans who in many ways linked themselves to the early church (ie we are the 3rd branch of Christianity, the other two being Orthodox and RCC) but with a sense of innate Anglican superiority. Iam sure Dr. Schori’s recent remarks about superior education and understand of/care of environmental issues (stewardship) did not help.

Again, most is in the past. The nonesense about invalidity of Anglican orders came about because of this competitive nature and the fact that in England and the Western World it would not have been helpful to the RCC to admit the validity and then begin to lose memebrs to what was essentially an Anglo Saxon version of Catholicsm in England and later the US and so on. There is a book called “Our Catholic Faith” (??) about Anglicanism that pretty successfully argues why the declaration about the lack of validity is nonesene in terms of the arguments made and historical fact and so on (ie the Pope was stretching on that one).

At any rate, I think most animosity (if there was any) is in the past. Anglicanism is the 3rd largest Christian communion in the world but obviously some parts of it are off the track. Some parts are more Catholic than many modern Catholics. As an aside, on EWTN, I once saw an article denouncing the modern non worshipful architecture that takes away from sacred space. The person had a book of archtiectural pictures and they discussed modern innovations that have done damage to the atmosphere of worship

Rev North

 

[paarsurrey]

Again, most is in the past. The nonesense about invalidity of Anglican orders came about because of this competitive nature and the fact that in England and the Western World it would not have been helpful to the RCC to admit the validity and then begin to lose memebrs to what was essentially an Anglo Saxon version of Catholicsm in England and later the US and so on.

Hi
A little question. Is the word Anglican from Angel or from the word English?
Thanks

In truth we unite, in untruth we divide.

 

[RedSoxFan]

It seems to me that Catholics seem to have more of a disliking for The Anglican Communion than for anyone else, even Lutherans. Why is this? Is is because the Anglican reformers in the 16th century kept most of the RC form of worship when they split from Rome? Is it because of King Henry or Queen Elizabeth II? Or possibly could it be that Anglicans actually profess the Eucharist to be exactly what RC’s believe that it is?

LOL! I’m hard pressed to see this in this day and time. I have traveled to Ireland and the British Isle and even I wasn’t given any trouble about my religion by anyone local. I can honestly say that I have never given anyone any trouble to any Anglican (or other protestant) for that matter. I even prayed at St. Paul’s in London and I think that’s Anglican, though I could be wrong. Keep in mind JP2’s visit to Canterbury to pray with the Arch-bishop for the martyered saint (St. Thomas Moore ?). I certainly don’t see this as an epidemic, or even a real problem currently.
I get the distinct feeling your trying to still things up a little bit and it amuses me. Take care brother!

 

[mercygate]

Quite a lot of English-speaking Catholics are of Irish descent–I don’t have the numbers, but at one point, they likely comprised the vast majority of Anglophone Catholicism. If a few modern Catholics seem to hold a special animus for Anglicanism, maybe it’s partly a set of inherited reflexes related to Ireland’s painful history with the British Empire–of which Anglicanism is the state church. That could certainly help explain some isolated cases of anti-Anglicanism.

Bingo! I know Irish Americans at the top of the social ladder, who never suffered ANYTHING at the hands of the English, who never endured ANY social slur based on their ethnicity (or even their religion), who hold a huge animus against anything Englilsh, as if anyone living today could have changed the past.

Mind you, as a Greek, I feel a little bit that way about Turks, but I try not to let that out when I am around Turks. THEY can’t help what their forebears did.

 

[GKC]

RevDrNorth,

“Again, most is in the past. The nonesense about invalidity of Anglican orders came about because of this competitive nature and the fact that in England and the Western World it would not have been helpful to the RCC to admit the validity and then begin to lose memebrs to what was essentially an Anglo Saxon version of Catholicsm in England and later the US and so on. There is a book called “Our Catholic Faith” (??) about Anglicanism that pretty successfully argues why the declaration about the lack of validity is nonesene in terms of the arguments made and historical fact and so on (ie the Pope was stretching on that one).”

I’m guessing you may be thinking of Vernon Staley’s THE CATHOLIC RELIGION, a well known Anglo-Catholic handbook, which treats the issue of Apostolicae Curae, though not in any depth or sophistication. The best rebuttal of *Apostolicae Curae *comes from the pen of a RC priest (former Anglican priest), Fr. John J. Hughes. Two books of his, ABSOLUTELY NULL AND UTTERLY VOID and STEWARDS OF THE LORD are the best exposition of the Anglican position, with copius details on the historical, personal, political and theological issues behind the controversy. It is complicated, and a mere dismissal as nonsense is not sufficient. The issues of form and intent have to be addressed, and it helps to know something of the history, motivation, and back stage manuverings that went on, too. AC is primarily the creation of Cardinal Vaughan. And the best discussion of the official Roman position on the matter is found in Francis Clark’s ANGLICAN ORDERS AND DEFECT OF INTENT, for those for whom the authority of a Papal Bull is not satisfactory in itself.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi
A little question. Is the word Anglican from Angel or from the word English?

It means “English.” It is the official Protestant religion of England. My Anglican step-father considers himself “Protestant,” not “Anglo-Catholic.” He was raised to be suspicious of Catholics.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Keep in mind JP2’s visit to Canterbury to pray with the Arch-bishop for the martyered saint (St. Thomas Moore ?).

That would be St. Thomas a’Becket. St. Thomas Moore was martyred by said Henry VIII. Becket was martyred at the instigation of Henry II.

 

[RedSoxFan]

That would be St. Thomas a’Becket. St. Thomas Moore was martyred by said Henry VIII. Becket was martyred at the instigation of Henry II.

Thanks!

 

[GKC]

It means “English.” It is the official Protestant religion of England. My Anglican step-father considers himself “Protestant,” not “Anglo-Catholic.” He was raised to be suspicious of Catholics.

Some Anglicans are like that.

"Non Angli, sed angeli”. Gregory I

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus *

 

[GKC]

That would be St. Thomas a’Becket. St. Thomas Moore was martyred by said Henry VIII. Becket was martyred at the instigation of Henry II.

And, to fine tune it even further, St. Thomas More.

GKC

 

[RevDrNorth]

Two books of his, ABSOLUTELY NULL AND UTTERLY VOID and STEWARDS OF THE LORD are the best exposition of the Anglican position, with copius details on the historical, personal, political and theological issues behind the controversy. It is complicated, and a mere dismissal as nonsense is not sufficient. The issues of form and intent have to be addressed, and it helps to know something of the history, motivation, and back stage manuverings that went on, too. AC is primarily the creation of Cardinal Vaughan. And the best discussion of the official Roman position on the matter is found in Francis Clark’s ANGLICAN ORDERS AND DEFECT OF INTENT, for those for whom the authority of a Papal Bull is not satisfactory in itself.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus.

Sorry…it is not mere nonesene…it is utter nonesense Anymore than the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon nonsense complete with alleged proofs.

The motivation (IMHO) for declaring Anglican orders invalid had most to do with politics. No good to have the Church of the world’s super power (English Catholics aka Anglicans) having valid orders. That would mean that people who culturally more closesly identified with Anglicanism than Roman Catholicsm would be more likely to assimilate into the Anglican Church. Yes… Catholicism mounted a valiant effort to intellectually defend a position that did not have much to defend it but that is no different than the sincere Protestants who use scripture/logic and so on to prove the apostasy (alleged) of the Roman Catholic Church. The alleged invalidity of Anglican orders is a joke. I cracked up when I first read about the issue

Caveat…I am not anti Catholic by ANY stretch. I have a great deal of respect for the Church and its leadership role, do not beleive it is the Whore of Babylon and so on.

North