Abundantly clear huh. lol The “Catholic church” cannot be found anywhere in the entire Bible. Not once, including Matthew 16:18-19. What your reading about is the Church of Christ my friend. It started in Acts 2:38-47. The More you read about it, the more you’ll realize how different it is in comparison to the Catholic Church. As it was said earlier the church is the Body of Christ.
If the Catholic Church was the church being mentioned in Matthew, we would’ve read about going to confession with priest
Mt 9:1-8 says that Jesus was given the authority to forgive sins. Later in that passage, the multitudes marveled at such power given unto “Men”. Notice that the power was given to men not to a man.
John 20:21-23 states, “As the Father has sent me even though I send you.” How was Jesus sent by the father? He was sent with the authority to forgive sins as discussed in Mt 9:1-8. If that is true, then he must be sending the same authority to forgive sins that he was given. The scriptures verify this through the following verse, “And when He had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any they are retained” (Jn 20:22-23).
How can men forgive sins if no one is confessing to them? And how can they forgive or retain if no one is confessing to them?
we would have read about cardinals, and nuns,
We do read about Priest and Bishops
If your Church was the Church in the bible we would read that there are no Priest and Bishops
we would have read about praying to Mary
“Pray” is just the old english word for “ask.” In legal papers you still see it used: “Plaintiff prays the court for the following relief …” That’s all we do with reference to saints – we pray (ask) them to pray for us to God. Same as we do with living saints here on earth — we ask them to pray for us.
William Shakespeare said this in one of his plays. “ I PRAY thee cease thy counsel, which falls into mine ears as profitless as water in a sieve.”
(Eph 2:19) “So then you are no longer STRANGERS and sojourners, but you are FELLOW-CITIZENS WITH THE SAINTS, and the HOUSE HOLD OF GOD.” And what do we do with the citizen here on earth? We ask for their prayers and this is the same for the body of Christ in Heaven.
(Rev. 8:3-4) “The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.” Obviously they pray for us in heaven and present our prayers to the Lord.
(Tobit 12:12) “I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord.” We have an angel presenting a prayer to God!!! Just as we present prayer for one another here on earth. It has always been a Christian tradition that they still do this in heaven.
we would have read about babies being baptized,
If your Church was in the bible we would read about baptism being symbolic.
we would have read about Peter being called a pope,
Pope is Italian for father. please tell me you dont have a problem with him being called father. I dont see that being wrong in scripture do you?
after all we do know Peter is always listed first amongst the aposltes. Peter is always named first. Guess who is always named last, Judas. This is a measure of importance. Examples are (Mt 10:2-5; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-17; and Acts 1:13)
Also many times when the scriptures list the Apostles without listing all of them, it says “Peter and the rest of the Apostles” or “Peter and his companions”. Examples are (Lk 9: 32) “Peter and his companions had been overcome by sleep…;” also (Mk 16:7; Acts 2:37)
you my friend need to re-read scripture.
PETER AND HIS COMPANIONS
we may have read about thousands of little alter boys being raped by priest,
easy now lets keep this charitable you dont want to get the boot before you can plant some seeds do ya? After all that aint a good way going about saving us Catholics.
I hope you stay around for a while but please becareful on what you say your always welcome to challenge us catholics but keep it charitable.
but what is Ironic is this as well is scriptural. The Church my friend has wolves in sheep clouthing. Was this not Jesus own words?
Name me one Protestant denomination that hasn’t had its share of murderers, liars, cheats, homosexuals, fornicators, blasphemers, etc.? Martin Luther helped bring about the slaughter of tens of thousands of German peasants. So, I guess you can’t go by anything he says, right? If you can’t believe anything that a sinner says, then I guess you can’t believe anything, can you, because you only have sinners as your teachers?
The Church has to be guided by God in matters of faith and morals, precisely because of the sinful nature of man. Aren’t you a sinner? If you are, why should I listen to anything you have to say?
Have you ever read Matthew 23? What does Jesus call the scribes and Pharisees? Liars. Blind guides. White washed tombs. Hypocrites. So, we shouldn’t do what they say, right? I know you’re nodding your head in agreement here, but, once again, you’re wrong.
What does Jesus say to His disciples and the crowds in Matthew 23:1-3? The scribes and Pharisees sit on the seat of Moses, therefore “do whatever they tell you.” I find that pretty interesting, don’t you,? Jesus tells the crowds, and even His disciples to do whatever the scribes and Pharisees say, because they sit on the seat of Moses…in other words, they hold a position of religious authority, and, even though they are some of the worst sinners, Jesus tells the crowds and His own disciples to do whatever they say to do.
In Matthew 16:18 “Jesus said that upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”
“Jesus said to him in reply, blessed are you Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my heavenly Father
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the nether world will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. What ever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.”
Now lets compare that to (Isaiah 22:21-22) “I will cloth him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give to him your authority, He shall be a Father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. I will place the KEY of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts no one shall open.
Jesus is obviously referring to this old testament passage whom authority is being passed on by passing on the keys, Keys are a symbol of authority. People should really study into this passage. It means exactly how Catholics have always interpreted this passage there is no way around it. We will look into this passage again after some more scripture.
(Mt 16:13-20) start with verse 17: “Jesus said to him in reply, blessed are you Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my heavenly Father
18 And so I say to
YOU,
YOU are
PETER, and upon THIS ROCK I will build my Church, and the gates of the nether world will not prevail against it. 19 I will give
YOU the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. What ever
YOU bind on earth will be bound in Heaven; and whatever
YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.”
Peter’s name was changed by Jesus from Simon to Peter who happens to mean ROCK. And when ever there is a name change in the bible it is a big deal there is always a good reason behind name changes. I will get into the Greek meaning of rock after some more verses.
If you want to respond start a link and answer these questions lets not derail this thread anymore than we already have. I just felt we could not leave your comments un answered.
again start a thread. If you have bible truth bring it on. but I would say your theology is wrong and the Chruch fathers would have to agree with the Church not your fallible interpritation.
