Do Catholics have a "Need" for Mary?

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Thanks for your reply, mathematoons!

It happened in our Church too and I doubt many realized the “problem” with the lyrics.
When someone asked me about it, I tried to explain how it was a pretty tune and therefore I didn’t think people really listened attentively.

I think it was written by a non Catholic, so we can have sympathy in so far as many non Catholics have little knowledge of Mary, but for those in the Church hopefully, we know Mary had more knowledge than Kenny Rogers who sang the song. The lyrics come from a human heart that has limited understanding of our Immaculate Mother who was given to know much at the Annunciation and continued to ponder all Jesus said and did.

She kept and pondered all in her heart. She who conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, the Incarnate Word of God is also called the Seat of Wisdom! I really feel sorry for those who do not know Mary as she is given to us in the Gospel. By the power of the Holy Spirit, if we ponder all Jesus said and did – we may become more like our Mother. Mary is Mother and Model for the Church!

Please, by God’s Grace, may we pray to and with our Mother for one another and for the Church and for all those in most need of God’s Mercy.
 
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Thanks, dear Tis_Bearself!

Yes, it is sad, but let us pray, for nothing is impossible with God. Mary our Mother, as you said, wants to help us. Let us continue to pray with faith, hope and above all charity!
 
Dear upant,

Mary is the Glory of the Trinity. No other human person has ever given such complete obedience to Father, Son and Holy Spirit. She cannot take away for God has no need of her but rather chose her to be the perfect Mother of His Son.

God chose to send His Son by the power of the Holy Spirit, born of the Woman Mary. He gave Jesus, Source of Grace, to us through Mary and every grace continues to flow to us Through her. This is His Plan. He could have done it any way He chose but He chose to send Jesus and all His Grace (i.e) our share in His Life, through Mary. God is consistent.

We certainly ask God for Grace, and He gives grace through Mary because He has given Jesus through her. We receive Grace through her whether we know it or not. When we realize the beautiful and unique relationship Mary has with Father Son and Holy Spirit, how muvh mor beautiful God’s Gifts become.

The Baptismal font has been called the “womb of Mary”. We are born into Christ who was born through her. If you have never read the short treatise on “True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary” by St. Louis De Montofrt. I encourage you to read it (and more than once!). Online version can be read [HERE]

Let me quote from the treatise:
Mary’s part in the sanctification of souls

– 22. The plan adopted by the three persons of the Blessed Trinity in the Incarnation, the first coming of Jesus Christ, is adhered to each day in an invisible manner throughout the Church and they will pursue it to the end of time until the last coming of Jesus Christ.

– 23. God the Father gathered all the waters together and called them the seas (maria). He gathered all his graces together and called them Mary (Maria). The great God has a treasury or storehouse full of riches in which he has enclosed all that is beautiful, resplendent, rare, and precious, even his own Son. This immense treasury is none other than Mary whom the saints call the “treasury of the Lord”. From her fullness all men are made rich.

– 24. God the Son imparted to his mother all that he gained by his life and death, namely, his infinite merits and his eminent virtues. He made her the treasurer of all his Father had given him as heritage. Through her he applies his merits to his members and through her he transmits his virtues and distributes his graces. She is his mystical channel, his aqueduct, through which he causes his mercies to flow gently and abundantly.

– 25. God the Holy Spirit entrusted his wondrous gifts to Mary, his faithful spouse, and chose her as the dispenser of all he possesses, so that she distributes all his gifts and graces to whom she wills, as much as she wills, how she wills and when she wills. No heavenly gift is given to men which does not pass through her virginal hands. Such indeed is the will of God, who has decreed that we should have all things through Mary, so that, making herself poor and lowly, and hiding herself in the depths of nothingness during her whole life, she might be enriched, exalted and honoured by almighty God. Such are the views of the Church and the early Fathers.
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Thanks so much for the lovely picture, and for speaking up for our lovely Mother,
dear Zaccheus!

I believe Mary loves us more than we can even imagine for she is so intimately united with God in His Love! I believe Jesus wants us to have devotion to His Mother as He expressed to Sister Lucia of Fatima when Jesus and Mary appeared to her in her convent in Spain. It is important for each one of us, it seems to me to give our love to Mary as Jesus did. 🙂
 
Dear Patrick,

Thanks for your reply, although I’m not sure I understand why you think I “expect” those who do not believe in the Real Presence to favor a belief in Mary?

My question is indeed to all Catholics, and I sincerely hope to question their hearts as to what they believe concerning Mary – no matter what else they have come to “Not believe” in the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Even some who do believe in the Real Presence have wandered away from Mary and this was perceived by Pope St. John Paul II, expressed in Oct. 1982. I’ve already quoted his words on this thread but you may have missed it. I think his words are very significant:
…Where the Mother is, there too is the Son. When one moves away from the Mother, sooner or later he ends up keeping distant from the Son as well. It is no wonder that today, in various sectors of secularised society, we note a widespread crisis of faith in God, preceded by a drop in devotion to the Virgin Mother. (Address given Oct. 1982 to the Legion of Mary in Italy)
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There are many Catholics in my parish right now, who may be at Mass every Sunday, and believing in the Eucharist, but have come to the notion that devotion to Mary is merely optional. That is not what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches in Paragraph 971.

The Catechism states that the Church’s devotion to Mary is intrinsic to Christian worship. This thread was intended to encourage whoever reads it to examine his or her relationship with Mary our Mother given to us by Jesus. There are many “lurkers” on any Forum who read and never respond, and those are important persons as well as those who give some indication of agreeing or not with what is written.

If I was not clearer in my original post, I apologize. Again, thank you for your reply and for your work as a Marian Catechist. I have read many of Father John Hardon’s works and I’m grateful for all he has done for the Church. May you be fruitful in your work as a Marian Catechist, Patrick. Please let us pray for one another, for the Church, and for those to whom we are sent. May we carry Jesus to others as Mary did. 🙂
 
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Dear 7_Sorrows,

Thanks for your simple and complete response! I’m assuming Mary is very important to YOU as a member of His Body, the Church!
🙂

In your love for our Mother, I hope you will continue to share with others how important she is. Pray to the Holy Spirit as you listen to Scripture, for Mary is given to us in His Word, and we learn so much if we open the ears of our Hearts.

The writings of the saints, the references in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to Mary, are also ways to keep learning how to help others recognize their need to know and love Mary more, and thus come closer to Jesus!
 
De_Maria said:
I do.

Mary: Mother of God | Catholic Answers

What the Early Church Believed: Mary is the Mother of God | Catholic Answers

Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a misapprehension …

Devotion to the Blessed Virgin | Catholic Answers
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Hi De_Maria

That’s a tract. I read tracts like that from Catholic Answers for years. I argued with Protestants, proving that Mary is the New Eve. But I didn’t really know Mary as uniquely, particularly, personally my mother (Redemptoris Mater, 45).

What percentage of churchgoing Catholics pray the Rosary today, or even a single Hail Mary daily? How many Catholics know the power of invoking Mary frequently?

I don’t want to be negative. Mary is the channel of all Christ’s Mercy. She is our Mother. All we have to do is go directly to her Immaculate Heart
 
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patricius79 said:
I don’t want to be negative.
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Neither do I. So, let’s not start judging Catholics because they don’t meet our standards of what is devoutness.

That reminds me of a woman I met at early morning Mass. Another woman walked in, wearing a veil and she looked at her disdainfully. “She’s a real Catholic. I was her roommate on a cruise and she would wake up at all hours of the night… to pray. God, save me from REAL Catholics!”

I assumed she was joking, because she, herself was a REAL Catholic. Who else gets up at 5am to go to daily Mass?
 
MariaChristi said:
to obtain God’s grace it is necessary to receive it through Mary
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That is not a teaching of the Catholic Church. Adam and Eve and the angels were constituted in the state of sanctifying grace. Also there were many justified before the Resurrection of Christ that were released from Hades at the Resurrection. God gives actual graces even before conversion.
 
Dear Vico,

The Catholic Church would not have canonized St. Louis de Montfort if his writings contained anything contrary to the Faith. Likewise Father Jordan Aumann who summarized the points in De Montfort’s treatise on “True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin” is a Dominican theologian of outstanding knowledge and credibility.

St. John Paul II said that his reading of St. Louis de Montfort was a “turning point in his young life”. His Papal Motto, “Totus Tuus” (“All Yours”) is taken from De Montfort’s treatise.

St. Teresa of Calcutta encouraged her sister to read “True Devotion” and to consecrate themselves totally to Jesus through Mary.

Perhaps your idea of “what the Church teaches” may be a very narrow definition. I hope you will read more from the Catechism of the Catholic Church as well as the writings of the Saints to see how accurately Fr. Jordan Aumann has explained how grace comes to us through Mary, using the summary points I posted. I would recommend especially paragraphs 963 - 975 in the Catechism and reading the treatise on True Devotion by St. Louis de Montfort slowly and prayerfully – even more than once. Online version can be read HERE.
 
According, for example, to the Apostolic Constitution(the highest papal document) of Pope Pius IX (Ineffabilis Deus), every hope, every grace, and all salvation is given through the Mother of the Redeemer. This is affirmed in Encyclicals by others Popes such as Leo XIII, who says that just as nobody can go to the Father except through Jesus, so nobody can go to Jesus except through Our Lady (Iucunda Semper).

This of course is not a condemnation of those who don’t know about our Mother (or even about Jesus).

Rather it is a call to mercy–to spreading devotion to our Beloved Queen.
 
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MariaChristi said:
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So I certainly addressed in the beginning to before the Annunciation. Her intercession is continuous now, as is that of the Church Triumphant.
  • “This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death”. (Catechism 963)
  • After her Son’s Ascension, Mary “aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers.” (Catechism 964)
  • “… the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” (Catechism 970)
 
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Amen, we need our Mother! Jesus showed us this by becoming Incarnate in Mary, and depending on her for everything as a little baby. That’s why Jesus said that the Kingdom of God belongs to those who are like infants and children. As St. Alphonsus Liguori says in the Glories of Mary, “little children always have on their lips their mother’s name”.
 
ABSOLUTELY. I need her like I needed my earthly mother. Our Lord deigned to give His Mother a role in the salvation of all men. She gave birth to me in the order of grace. If she wasn’t my mother, God wouldn’t be my Father and Jesus wouldn’t be my Saviour. Thank you, Mother, Mediatrix of All Graces.

It’s impossible to give that most Blessed Mother too much thanks because she’s the moon that reflects the glory of the son.

She’s the humble handmaid that became the Queen of Heaven. She thinks nothing of herself. Jesus is her sole focus. That’s why she’s so united to Him - and why she suffered with him when the sword pierced her heart. Holy Mary is the terror of demons and the star of the sea that leads the ship of Peter to Jesus.
 
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Yeah, I have a real issue with that song.
It’s sung in many parishes. Not mine.
People really want to reinvent the wheel. There are SO MANY gorgeous Marian hymns…there is seldom a good “new” one.
One of my favorites is Ave Maria, O Maiden O Mother from the St. Gregory Hymnal.
Instead, we get these abysmal ones, including the rather sappy Gentle Woman one.
 
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As mentioned, the Popes teach that every grace we receive comes from Jesus through Mary.

And based on Pope John Paul II’s teaching in Redemptoris Mater, I think the saving graces of the Old Testament, are given in virtue of the work of the New Adam and–subordinate to Him-- the New Eve. As the Catechism says, the mystery of the Cross underlies all history.

JPII writes:

" In the mystery of Christ she is present even “before the creation of the world,” as the one whom the Father “has chosen” as Mother of his Son in the Incarnation."

"How can one doubt that especially now, on Golgotha, this expression goes to the very heart of the mystery of Mary, and indicates the unique place which she occupies in the whole economy of salvation? "
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p.../hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater.html
Saxum said:
ABSOLUTELY. I need her like I needed my earthly mother. Our Lord deigned to give His Mother a role in the salvation of all men. She gave birth to me in the order of grace. If she wasn’t my mother, God wouldn’t be my Father and Jesus wouldn’t be my Saviour. Thank you, Mother, Mediatrix of All Graces.
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That’s right, Saxum.

You remind me of this passage from Pope Pius X’s Encylcal Ad Diem Illum:

24. Leaving aside charity towards God, who can contemplate the Immaculate Virgin without feeling moved to fulfill that precept which Christ called peculiarly His own, namely that of loving one another as He loved us? “A great sign,” thus the Apostle St. John describes a vision divinely sent him, appears in the heavens: “A woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars upon her head” (Apoc. xii., 1). Everyone knows that this woman signified the Virgin Mary, the stainless one who brought forth our Head. The Apostle continues: “And, being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered” (Apoc. xii., 2). John therefore saw the Most Holy Mother of God already in eternal happiness, yet travailing in a mysterious childbirth. What birth was it? Surely it was the birth of us who, still in exile, are yet to be generated to the perfect charity of God, and to eternal happiness. And the birth pains show the love and desire with which the Virgin from heaven above watches over us, and strives with unwearying prayer to bring about the fulfillment of the number of the elect."
http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x...x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html
 
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MariaChristi said:
Dear 7_Sorrows,

Thanks for your simple and complete response! I’m assuming Mary is very important to YOU as a member of His Body, the Church!
🙂

In your love for our Mother, I hope you will continue to share with others how important she is. Pray to the Holy Spirit as you listen to Scripture, for Mary is given to us in His Word, and we learn so much if we open the ears of our Hearts.

The writings of the saints, the references in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to Mary, are also ways to keep learning how to help others recognize their need to know and love Mary more, and thus come closer to Jesus!
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I am taking a class this semester at church called The Bible and the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Mary had to be as untouchable and perfect as the Ark of the Covenant. We spoke of eschatology.
Yes, I love Mary very much and the role she played and said YES to in God’s plan.
 
Yes…we definitely need Mary.

I was baptized Catholic but unfortunately never practiced or knew the faith. As a kid we went to Mass maybe 4-5 times and half of those were for funerals. Then in 1999 I got introduced to Jesus by a Protestant and went to non-denominational services. Bible studies in our home. Mission trips. But I knew, that I knew, that I knew something was wrong. Then in about 2012 I “stumbled” on some Catholic sites and I was a goner. Never knew about the Real Presence or the Church’s authority. THIS made sense to me and I started RCIA in 2014 and re-entered the Church in 2015.

My point in all this is my mom. Even though she basically never went to Mass, read Scripture or really talked about God, I found out she had a real devotion to Mary. Whenever life got messy for her…she went to Our Lady. My mom was one of those “Catholics” who believed your faith was personal and should be kept to yourself. In February 2016 she was diagnosed with cancer. Small cell. No cure. And almost zero chance of remission. Being as I was now a practicing, Mass going, Rosary praying Catholic I insist she go to confession and get herself right with God. Problem is she is divorced and “remarried”. So she starts the annulment process. Even though she was really sick (chemo) she labored and diligently did the work. Then in May her “husband” died suddenly. This, of course frees her to go to confession and receive the Sacraments.

I say all this to show that I truly believe that her love for Mary, as imperfect as it was may have saved her. I’m the only practicing Catholic in our entire family and that too is probably from my mother’s love for Mary.

My mom passed away last November. Prayers for her appreciated.

No other created being loves the Son more than our Blessed Mother. We are so lucky our faith instructs us to love and venerate Her.

Mary, Queen of Heaven; pray for us.
 
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