Do Catholics Worship the Cross

[fjp]

It is my understanding based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church that adoration is only due to God, however, I have come across the definition of adoration and that there are two types of adoration; Latria and Dulia. Latria is only to be directed to God and Dulia is a form of veneration due to rational creatures.

Does the Catholic church hold as doctrine adoration of the cross? It is my understanding that Dulia may apply not Latria. Any clarification on this matter will be greatly appreciated

 

[Cristiano]

Please read pots #75 of the following link.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7009392#post7009392

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

No. My experience growing up in the Catholic Church is while the Church does not doctrinally permit worship of objects or Mary or the saints, etc., in practice, I’ve noticed that many actually do. I would certainly not be bold enough to say “most” or anything remotely close to “most” because that would be difficult if not impossible for me to discern and likely not true, but my experience is that many do seemingly cross a line of adoration/veneration/etc to worship in practice.

Now, please don’t take this as any kind of attack on the Catholic faith because I don’t intend it to be that way. I realize these people do this in spite of Catholic doctrine and not because of it.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Does the Catholic church hold as doctrine adoration of the cross?

No. It is a pious practice. Nobody is ever required to do this.

It is my understanding that Dulia may apply not Latria.

Neither form qualify in this case - the representation of the Cross is not a rational creature (which, as you correctly defined, may be the subject of dulia adoration). Catholics sometimes use a Cross (or, more specifically, usually a Crucifix) to help focus their prayers and thoughts, but the object of this form of adoration is Jesus (Latra). The crucifix is simply a visual aid.

 

[Cristiano]

No. My experience growing up in the Catholic Church is while the Church does not doctrinally permit worship of objects or Mary or the saints, etc., in practice, I’ve noticed that many actually do…

Your observation might be confused/misled by cultural aspects or it could be right. The Church has been fighting and still puts up a fight when pious traditions become heretical behaviors. Among those the Church teaches that the Blessed Mother, while deserving of the highest level of veneration, will never be worthy adoration and doing so it would be against the will of God and against the dignity of the BVM. Usually these heretical behaviors are out of ignorance and it is the Catholics’ responsibility to fix such shortcomings through charitable correction. Just be aware that cultural expression of veneration might look like adoration to you but the understanding and intent of a gesture is proper one.

 

[Carlan]

No. My experience growing up in the Catholic Church is while the Church does not doctrinally permit worship of objects or Mary or the saints, etc., in practice, I’ve noticed that many actually do. I would certainly not be bold enough to say “most” or anything remotely close to “most” because that would be difficult if not impossible for me to discern and likely not true, but my experience is that many do seemingly cross a line of adoration/veneration/etc to worship in practice.

Now, please don’t take this as any kind of attack on the Catholic faith because I don’t intend it to be that way. I realize these people do this in spite of Catholic doctrine and not because of it.

You are judging what is in the heart of people by what you perceive as worshiping.
When Catholics venerate the Crucifix they are worshiping Christ, God , the Son of God…not a piece of wood. Peace, Carlan

 

[Cristiano]

You are judging what is in the heart of people by what you perceive as worshiping.
When Catholics venerate the Crucifix they are worshiping Christ, God , the Son of God…not a piece of wood. Peace, Carlan

Please do not be hard on him, because the Church herself recognized that sometime we encountered that problem. He made it very clear that he understand the Church’s teachings on the topic, and he has been very honest in making sure that his impression is not a generalization of the faithfuls.

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

You are judging what is in the heart of people by what you perceive as worsphing.
When Catholics venerate the Crucifix they are worshiping Christ, God , the Son of God…not a piece of wood. Peace, Carlan

I admit that it is my perception of individuals which could be very wrong on an individual basis. I also admit that it is a VERY gray area. What kind of actions does one have to do before crossing the line? I’m not sure it’s possible to definitely say but more of a perception that is developed from observations over time.

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

Please do not be hard on him, because the Church herself recognized that sometime we encountered that problem. He made it very clear that he understand the Church’s teachings on the topic, and he has been very honest in making sure that his impression is not a generalization of the faithfuls.

Thank you. This is not a uniquely Catholic issue either. I think it is good to recognize and confront brothers and sisters who do approach a fine line. Outside of the Catholic Church, I encounter people who get dangerously close to worshiping the Bible itself instead of the God of the Bible.

 

[Carlan]

Thank you. This is not a uniquely Catholic issue either. I think it is good to recognize and confront brothers and sisters who do approach a fine line. Outside of the Catholic Church, I encounter people who get dangerously close to worshiping the Bible itself instead of the God of the Bible.

Fair enough! We are all sinners, yes?
Peace, Carlan

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

Fair enough! We are all sinners, yes?
Peace, Carlan

Sadly, yes. But on the flip-side, that’s what gives the sacrifice on the cross so much meaning in the first place!

 

[promethius]

I admit that it is my perception of individuals which could be very wrong on an individual basis. I also admit that it is a VERY gray area. What kind of actions does one have to do before crossing the line? I’m not sure it’s possible to definitely say but more of a perception that is developed from observations over time.

It’s not an ACTION, it’s an intent coupled with an action.

If some satanist were to stab a crucifix upside down in my yard, I might kneel down in front of it. The casual observer driving by might assume by my action that I was worshipping this image… they would be wrong. The reality is that I would be kneeling in order to dig it out!

Actions do not constitute worship in and of themselves, although they can still constitute a sin (for example, SAYING I worship Ba’al, even though I don’t, would still be sinful).

Furthermore, what many protestants find as a hitchingn point is a lack of understanding of what true worship is… latria… and thus they confuse any and all signs of respect, particularly TRADITIONAL European signs of respect, with worship. It’s a silly elitist position which stems from failing to understand the influence of the American Revolution against the monarchy had on the general population and goes part and parcel with those American Catholics who feel they should never have to kneel during mass.

 

[PompousMaximus]

No. My experience growing up in the Catholic Church is while the Church does not doctrinally permit worship of objects or Mary or the saints, etc., in practice, I’ve noticed that many actually do. I would certainly not be bold enough to say “most” or anything remotely close to “most” because that would be difficult if not impossible for me to discern and likely not true, but my experience is that many do seemingly cross a line of adoration/veneration/etc to worship in practice.

Now, please don’t take this as any kind of attack on the Catholic faith because I don’t intend it to be that way. I realize these people do this in spite of Catholic doctrine and not because of it.

I completely agree. As I have witnessed a majority of my former fellow Catholic Christians while I was at church “in practice” do these very same things.

And it is difficult to explain when we would do things like take off our shoes to approach a crucifix on Good Friday to kiss the feet of Jesus on said crucifix whether or not this is veneration of God or crucifix. I agree also that certain people do this in spite of Catholic doctrine on the matter but find it hard to differentiate what I should’ve been doing when you get mixed examples of Catholic practice.

 

[PompousMaximus]

Furthermore, what many protestants find as a hitchingn point is a lack of understanding of what true worship is… latria… and thus they confuse any and all signs of respect, particularly TRADITIONAL European signs of respect, with worship. It’s a silly elitist position which stems from failing to understand the influence of the American Revolution against the monarchy had on the general population and goes part and parcel with those American Catholics who feel they should never have to kneel during mass.

There’s that Traditional word popping up again. I think Jesus had some difficulty with certain traditions. And to consider all protestants elitist when you yourselves claim that you are the only Church is hypocritical.

Go ahead, use my words against me, I understand what could I possible know…

 

[EricFilmer]

It’s not an ACTION, it’s an intent coupled with an action.

If some satanist were to stab a crucifix upside down in my yard, I might kneel down in front of it. The casual observer driving by might assume by my action that I was worshipping this image… they would be wrong. The reality is that I would be kneeling in order to dig it out!

Good example. Here’s an example of my own that I sometimes use to illustrate what you have stated here. In the movie The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner recites prayers to a statue depicting an Egyptian god. Does this mean that Brynner was a pagan?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Of course, we don’t know for certain what was in his heart and mind, but naturally we presume that even though his actions depicted worship, his intention was to simply be an actor portraying the role of pharaoh.

 

[EricFilmer]

And it is difficult to explain when we would do things like take off our shoes to approach a crucifix on Good Friday to kiss the feet of Jesus on said crucifix whether or not this is veneration of God or crucifix.

I agree that what is going on at Good Friday is not clearly and readily explained, so it can be easily open to misunderstanding (even among Catholics). But technically speaking, what is being venerated at the Good Friday liturgy is Jesus’ sacrifice. After all, this is what is specifically commemorated on Good Friday. By extension, of course, that also involves venerating Jesus, but the Good Friday liturgy is the only liturgy when such special actions are done concerning a crucifix. In our parish, the same crucifix which hangs above the altar is the same one taken down for the Good Friday liturgy. On Good Friday, people can genuflect before it and/or kiss it (we keep our shoes on), but on any other day of the year we simply give this crucifix a reverent bow (if that). If what was going on during Good Friday was meant to be a special kind of veneration specifically for God or for the cross, such things would take place on other days of the year as well.

As a matter-of-fact, it would be considered improper for a Catholic to genuflect to this same crucifix on any other day or time (and I am making a distinction between a genuflection and simply kneeling in prayer). Generally speaking, genuflecting is done as a sign of adoration, and is to be directed to the Eucharist within the Tabernacle. An exception is made on Good Friday for the sake of the crucifix, but this is not to indicate that the crucifix is suddenly considered the Real Presence of Christ while the Good Friday liturgy is going on. Rather, like I said, it is meant to be an extremely reverent display of appreciation for Christ’s desire and decision to die for our sins.

It is also probably worth noting that, for Catholics, church attendance on Good Friday is optional, as are any of the devotional practices done with the crucifix on that day (or any other day, for that matter).

 

[Mintaka]

The reason we kiss the crucifix (or even a cross) on Good Friday, is that we are imitating the practice of Christians in Jerusalem on Good Friday, from the time when the True Cross was dug up by Empress Helena, until the time it got hauled away for good.

The True Cross was exposed to public view, the patriarch of Jerusalem and his priests stood around watching and blessing, and the public came up to touch or kiss the relic. (Including the one notorious guy who bit off a loose chunk of wood.)

Christians did this for two reasons: 1) because touching or kissing a holy relic could heal you (as witness Paul’s hankies, Elijah’s bones, et al); and because if you wanted to show respect to your king and he wasn’t there, you would greet his badge with a kiss instead of him – and the Cross was and is Jesus’ most famous badge.

You can read about this in Etheria’s travelogue of her pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and in various historical documents.

Anyway, places that didn’t have either the True Cross (especially after it was hauled off and destroyed/gone missing), or a genuine piece of it, would make a replica or use their own crucifix, so that everybody could keep Jerusalem and the Crucifixion clearly in mind. (Many other Holy Week customs, like the Way of the Cross, also mimic things you’d do if you were a Christian from Jerusalem, or went on a pilgrimage there.) The “adoration of the Cross” is a sign of Christian unity through space and time.

 

[fjp]

As a matter of clarity and in the spirit to not lead our brothers astray, it is my belief to be clear on this matter and call our respect and honor to the cross as veneration and not adoration. In today’s context, adoration, is considered by most as Latria not as Dulia, hence, if I as a Catholic know this, is it not my responsibility not to lead my brother astray?

As a Catholic, not only am I responsible to not judge Mat 7:1-2 but I am also responsible to not lead my brother astray 1 Cor 8:13. I believe that we should look at those practices that are not of apostolic tradition and we must be careful within this freedom of the truth provided to us, not to become a stumbling block to others 1 Cor 8:9.

The veneration of the cross has its place in our faith, but only He who was placed on the cross commands our adoration. We must be clear on this matter

God bless

 

[promethius]

There’s that Traditional word popping up again.

You have taken my words and twisted them utterly out of context… this is deception, and I request an apology.

In case anyone was mislead by this deception, when I refered to traditional european signs of respect, I refered primarily to things like kissing a ring or kneeling as a monarch or authority passed by.

American protestantism ALONE in the world eschews things like these, thus my reference to the fact that american protestants are ALONE in asserting that mere actions which show respect based on traditional behavioral signs around the world constitute some form of worship.

Point of fact: saluting is a sign of respect in the military, and yet no one presumes THIS sign of respect to be “worship” directed to superior officers. Given that perspective, the American protestant position makes no sense (with the exception of those forms of protestantism that predate the American Materialist heresy and thus MIGRATED TO America, rather than being conceived in it)

And to consider all protestants elitist when you yourselves claim that you are the only Church is hypocritical.

Again with another deception regarding what I said! What I said was that American protestantism is elitist insofar as the attitude of “if it’s anything other than an American manner of showing respect then it is worship/wrong”. We see this when people make a silly fuss over President Obama bowing to someone or otherwise. We Americans have a tendency to eschew the practices of the rest of the world as somehow inferior to our own… including the practice of veneration through kneeling, bowing, kissing, etc.

To restrict acceptable signs of respect to ONLY saluting or handshakes is a silly elitist position.

Go ahead, use my words against me, I understand what could I possible know…

Conversely, you never addressed anything I ACTUALLY said, preferring only to assault me with twisted version of something I never said, so I can’t possibly address what you have to say or know…

 

[PompousMaximus]

You have taken my words and twisted them utterly out of context… this is deception, and I request an apology.

In case anyone was mislead by this deception, when I refered to traditional european signs of respect, I refered primarily to things like kissing a ring or kneeling as a monarch or authority passed by.

American protestantism ALONE in the world eschews things like these, thus my reference to the fact that american protestants are ALONE in asserting that mere actions which show respect based on traditional behavioral signs around the world constitute some form of worship.

Point of fact: saluting is a sign of respect in the military, and yet no one presumes THIS sign of respect to be “worship” directed to superior officers. Given that perspective, the American protestant position makes no sense (with the exception of those forms of protestantism that predate the American Materialist heresy and thus MIGRATED TO America, rather than being conceived in it)

Again with another deception regarding what I said! What I said was that American protestantism is elitist insofar as the attitude of “if it’s anything other than an American manner of showing respect then it is worship/wrong”. We see this when people make a silly fuss over President Obama bowing to someone or otherwise. We Americans have a tendency to eschew the practices of the rest of the world as somehow inferior to our own… including the practice of veneration through kneeling, bowing, kissing, etc.

To restrict acceptable signs of respect to ONLY saluting or handshakes is a silly elitist position.

Conversely, you never addressed anything I ACTUALLY said, preferring only to assault me with twisted version of something I never said, so I can’t possibly address what you have to say or know…

Geez you are touchy, and I won’t apologize because you just did the same thing I did. You deceptively worded a couple of paragraphs to negate the comments I made. Merry Christmas