Do Catholics worship with Muslims?

[Lisa44]

“Allah” is just the word for God in Arabic. Arabic Christians and Jews used and still use the same word. It shares the same Semitic root with the word “Alah” in Syriac/Aramaic and thus is the word that Jesus (pbuh) would have used also, and is the word still used by Syriac speaking Christians.

Hi
The word for God in Aramaic and Syriac is El.
Also, Elah.

Al in syriac means ‘not’.
El means God.

I have yet to understand how Elah became Allah?

Do you know?

 

[Dauphin]

It certainly seems that Muslims worship the one God, but it doesn’t really matter since:

*"…the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved." *- Pope St. Gregory the Great, Moralia

 

[Marc_Aupiais]

It certainly seems that Muslims worship the one God, but it doesn’t really matter since:

"…the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved." - Pope St. Gregory the Great, Moralia

No one’s saying they pay TRUE worship: agreed!

 

[Hypatia]

Hi
The word for God in Aramaic and Syriac is El.
Also, Elah.

Al in syriac means ‘not’.
El means God.

I have yet to understand how Elah became Allah?

Do you know?

Semitic words are built entirely around consonants. In their earliest forms, written semitic languages (like Hebrew, Aramaic/Syriac, Arabic) would be written without vowels, and the vowels would be supplied in speech. So the vowel points (the dots that you see around arabic script) come along later to help the reader and to help standardize pronunciations.

In most cases the root word is made up of 3 consonants. So, to take a rather obvious Arabic example:

S-L-M

various forms of the word are now built off the common root…

SaLaaM (peace)
iSLaM (to submit)
muSLiM (one who submits, masc.)

These consonantal roots are often present across a number Semitic languages, and in the case of God, the simple root is the same in Arabic and Aramaic, which is not surprising as this languages (along with Hebrew) grew up alongside one another. In Arabic the word is al-ilah (the-god) which is contracted to “Allah” to express uniqueness and oneness.

 

[lightsalt]

Semitic words are built entirely around consonants. In their earliest forms, written semitic languages (like Hebrew, Aramaic/Syriac, Arabic) would be written without vowels, and the vowels would be supplied in speech. So the vowel points (the dots that you see around arabic script) come along later to help the reader and to help standardize pronunciations.

In most cases the root word is made up of 3 consonants. So, to take a rather obvious Arabic example:

S-L-M

various forms of the word are now built off the common root…

SaLaaM (peace)
iSLaM (to submit)
muSLiM (one who submits, masc.)

These consonantal roots are often present across a number Semitic languages, and in the case of God, the simple root is the same in Arabic and Aramaic, which is not surprising as this languages (along with Hebrew) grew up alongside one another. In Arabic the word is al-ilah (the-god) which is contracted to “Allah” to express uniqueness and oneness.

Great information !

many thanks, and

shalom

lightsalt

 

[Gara3987]

I read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1, Paragraph 841 that: Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.”
I have only seen information pertaining to Muslims, because I am not a Muslim. But the info I have says that Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, nor do they agree in the deity of Jesus Christ.
This confuses me, because how can one God be a trinity and not be a trinity at the same time? I have barely understood the doctrine of the trinity in the past, and now this. What Gives?
Lightsalt

I totally agree with you. The Muslim god is not the God of Abraham! Thus the Koran says that Jesus is in hell, Christians are infidels, etc… The Koran does not only contradicts itself but contradicts the Holy Scripture as well. Why would God author the Holy Scriptures (which is in complete harmony with itself) and then turn around and Author something that totally contradicts itself and the Bible?

 

[Deum_quaerens]

“He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.” (John v, 23)

“Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.” (John xiv, 6)

“Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.” (I John ii, 23)

“Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.” (II John i, 9)

The answer seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Lisa44]

“He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.” (John v, 23)

“Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.” (John xiv, 6)

“Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.” (I John ii, 23)

“Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.” (II John i, 9)

The answer seems pretty clear to me.

 

[palmas85]

For many of those who do not know I provide the following.

Islam was founded sometime around the year 600 when Mohammed had a divine revelation concerning God and the proper way to worship Him. He continued to have these revelations for the last twenty or so years of his life. One of the major messages was that Jesus was a man and not at all divine. Another was that there is no Trinity as God is God in one, not three persons for lack of a better word… A third is that Jesus was a mere prophet and that the last prophet is Mohammed:thumbsup: What a surprise… There is a good bit of Christianity in Islam. In fact there is enough of it present that many believe either Mohammed was influenced by Christians that he knew or was one himself. I don’t know if that issue has ever been resolved.

What is most interesting is that around this same time and prior to it, there were a lot and I do mean a lot of heresies floating around that denied the divinity of Christ.Just like Islam does.

So to me it would appear that Islam grew out of a flawed and possibly, well, probably heretical sect of Christianity. Adoptionists and separationists throughout the early Church believed essentially the same thing.

Divine revelations from God throughout history are not at all uncommon. Jim Jones, David Koresh, William Miller, Joseph Smith, Marcion etc etc etc, the list is virtually endless. And the messages are usually pretty consistent.

Islam is no different and neither was Mohammed. Just another prophet who was divinely appointed by God to spread the word. The new word. The improved word that only he could deliver.

My opinion.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

For many of those who do not know I provide the following.

Islam was founded sometime around the year 600 when Mohammed had a divine revelation concerning God and the proper way to worship Him. He continued to have these revelations for the last twenty or so years of his life. One of the major messages was that Jesus was a man and not at all divine. Another was that there is no Trinity as God is God in one, not three persons for lack of a better word… A third is that Jesus was a mere prophet and that the last prophet is Mohammed:thumbsup: What a surprise… There is a good bit of Christianity in Islam. In fact there is enough of it present that many believe either Mohammed was influenced by Christians that he knew or was one himself. I don’t know if that issue has ever been resolved.

What is most interesting is that around this same time and prior to it, there were a lot and I do mean a lot of heresies floating around that denied the divinity of Christ.Just like Islam does.

So to me it would appear that Islam grew out of a flawed and possibly, well, probably heretical sect of Christianity. Adoptionists and separationists throughout the early Church believed essentially the same thing.

Divine revelations from God throughout history are not at all uncommon. Jim Jones, David Koresh, William Miller, Joseph Smith, Marcion etc etc etc, the list is virtually endless. And the messages are usually pretty consistent.

Islam is no different and neither was Mohammed. Just another prophet who was divinely appointed by God to spread the word. The new word. The improved word that only he could deliver.

My opinion.

Hilaire Belloc (the great English Catholic writer), in his book “The Great Heresies,” characterizes Mohammedism as a heresy.

 

[Lujack]

I totally agree with you. The Muslim god is not the God of Abraham! Thus the Koran says that Jesus is in hell, Christians are infidels, etc… The Koran does not only contradicts itself but contradicts the Holy Scripture as well. Why would God author the Holy Scriptures (which is in complete harmony with itself) and then turn around and Author something that totally contradicts itself and the Bible?

Would you quote the Sura that claims that Jesus is in Hell? If you do any research into Islam, you’ll find that this is not remotely true. In fact, Christ is one of the people Muhammad is said to meet in Heaven on his “night journey”.

Don’t spread misinformation, regardless of how you feel about Islam.

 

[JohnTrueHeart]

Hilaire Belloc (the great English Catholic writer), in his book “The Great Heresies,” characterizes Mohammedism as a heresy.

Bayern… it seems to me that there are quotes from the HOLY BIBLE in the Quran. Since Islam came 600 years AFTER the birth of Christianity…seems to me Mohammed did some plegarism… but then my English translation of the Quran is only written by a one of the World’s most recognized translators…even Muslims know his work is authentic and honest. A.J. ARBERRY is universally recognized as not only the most authoritative translation, but also the most beautiful one in the English language. As Head of the Department of Classics at Cairo University, he has acquired a firsthand knowledge of literary and social conditions in the Islamic Middle East.
There is no compromise for me when I compare the HOLY BIBLE and our Faith to others, and if Catholics did worships with Muslims, then WE would not be Catholics and they would not be Muslims... We all would possibly be CATHOLIMS, or maybe even MUSTHOLICS.... but then I wouldn't know !!! LOL :knight1::bible1::twocents:

 

[Centos]

Wrong. Jews, Muslims and Catholics worship the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Catholics have the fullness of Truth that the “word was made flesh and dwelt among us” while Jews and Muslims reject this. So, they believe in one aspect of God but lack the fullness of understanding which includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As I said before, they see one side of a three-sided coin.

The Jews, in their Talmud, teach that Jesus was the bastard son of a harlot. The Muslims teach that he was a prophet but, otherwise, a mere man.

Neither belief is true. Nor are these religions true.

What we as Catholics should do, is pray for the souls of Jews, Muslims, Protestants and others – but we should not make the mistake of believing they have a “part” of the true religion. Truth is absolute. A half truth is a lie. Christ founded his Church, not churches and, all who will be saved, must come into the Church.

“It is, therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this, the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. . . . Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known that this is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance and which takes a health-promoting care of the sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject” (Divine Institutes 4:30:11–13 [A.D. 307]). --Lactantius

“If someone from this people wants to be saved, let him come into this house so that he may be able to attain his salvation. . . . Let no one, then, be persuaded otherwise, nor let anyone deceive himself: Outside of this house, that is, outside of the Church, no one is saved; for, if anyone should go out of it, he is guilty of his own death” (Homilies on Joshua 3:5 [A.D. 250]). --Origen

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

By worshiping with Muslims or Jews you are, in effect, saying “Your religion is as good as ours.” But Christ said, “No one comes unto the Father but by me.” Both the Jewish and Muslim religions deny that Christ is God, therefore they deny Christ.

Now, I do believe, that those in other religions who are invincibly ignorant of the true Faith can be saved by God’s grace – but they’re saved despite their religion, not because of it.

"The case of heathens differs considerably from that of baptized Protestants. Heathens who are in error inculpably, and serve God to the best of their ability, according to the light which they possess, and are ready to do all that Heaven may desire from them, will certainly be saved. They may never receive the baptism of water, but for them what is called in the Catholic Church the baptism of desire, is sufficient. Their efforts to please God include the desire to know the true faith, and willingness to embrace it; and as to sanctifying grace, which is also necessary for salvation, God, who is unwilling that men should perish when they do their utmost to please Him, infuses into their souls, in the course of their lives, or at the moment of their death, the same sanctifying grace that is conferred by the baptism of water. If they fall into mortal sin, they may receive the grace to elicit an act of perfect contrition, and thereby obtain forgiveness. Their salvation is not according to the ordinary course of Providence, but the result of an extraordinary grace, conferred in view of the merits of Christ. By the baptism of desire they become members of the true Church of Christ, the Catholic Church, and are saved only as members of her communion.

In other words, there is only one way to heaven, but there are several ways that lead to the Catholic Church, for, besides the baptism of water, there is the baptism of blood, or martyrdom suffered by an unbaptised person for the faith of Christ, and the baptism of desire, of which I have just spoken. How many are saved by the baptism of desire, whether they are few or numerous, is known to God alone; we may cheerfully leave it in the hands of God, whose boundless mercy extends to every human soul, and never allows one to perish except through its own grievous fault…"

From “Protestantism and Infidelity” by F. X. WENINGER. D.D

bliz.org/newprot.html

Charity and understanding should be extended to those in other religions – but it should not be extended to their religions. We should have intolerance for false religions – and no religion can be more false than one that denies that Jesus Christ is God and the eternal Son of the God.

May God be with you

 

[Lisa44]

The Jews, in their Talmud, teach that Jesus was the bastard son of a harlot. The Muslims teach that he was a prophet but, otherwise, a mere man.

Neither belief is true. Nor are these religions true.

What we as Catholics should do, is pray for the souls of Jews, Muslims, Protestants and others – but we should not make the mistake of believing they have a “part” of the true religion. Truth is absolute. A half truth is a lie. Christ founded his Church, not churches and, all who will be saved, must come into the Church.

“It is, therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this, the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. . . . Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known that this is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance and which takes a health-promoting care of the sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject” (Divine Institutes 4:30:11–13 [A.D. 307]). --Lactantius

“If someone from this people wants to be saved, let him come into this house so that he may be able to attain his salvation. . . . Let no one, then, be persuaded otherwise, nor let anyone deceive himself: Outside of this house, that is, outside of the Church, no one is saved; for, if anyone should go out of it, he is guilty of his own death” (Homilies on Joshua 3:5 [A.D. 250]). --Origen

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

By worshiping with Muslims or Jews you are, in effect, saying “Your religion is as good as ours.” But Christ said, “No one comes unto the Father but by me.” Both the Jewish and Muslim religions deny that Christ is God, therefore they deny Christ.

Now, I do believe, that those in other religions who are invincibly ignorant of the true Faith can be saved by God’s grace – but they’re saved despite their religion, not because of it.

"The case of heathens differs considerably from that of baptized Protestants. Heathens who are in error inculpably, and serve God to the best of their ability, according to the light which they possess, and are ready to do all that Heaven may desire from them, will certainly be saved. They may never receive the baptism of water, but for them what is called in the Catholic Church the baptism of desire, is sufficient. Their efforts to please God include the desire to know the true faith, and willingness to embrace it; and as to sanctifying grace, which is also necessary for salvation, God, who is unwilling that men should perish when they do their utmost to please Him, infuses into their souls, in the course of their lives, or at the moment of their death, the same sanctifying grace that is conferred by the baptism of water. If they fall into mortal sin, they may receive the grace to elicit an act of perfect contrition, and thereby obtain forgiveness. Their salvation is not according to the ordinary course of Providence, but the result of an extraordinary grace, conferred in view of the merits of Christ. By the baptism of desire they become members of the true Church of Christ, the Catholic Church, and are saved only as members of her communion.

In other words, there is only one way to heaven, but there are several ways that lead to the Catholic Church, for, besides the baptism of water, there is the baptism of blood, or martyrdom suffered by an unbaptised person for the faith of Christ, and the baptism of desire, of which I have just spoken. How many are saved by the baptism of desire, whether they are few or numerous, is known to God alone; we may cheerfully leave it in the hands of God, whose boundless mercy extends to every human soul, and never allows one to perish except through its own grievous fault…"

From “Protestantism and Infidelity” by F. X. WENINGER. D.D

bliz.org/newprot.html

Charity and understanding should be extended to those in other religions – but it should not be extended to their religions. We should have intolerance for false religions – and no religion can be more false than one that denies that Jesus Christ is God and the eternal Son of the God.

May God be with you

 

[Hypatia]

The way the poster’s question is worded is odd. Do Catholics worship with Muslims?

I cannot imagine a situation in which they would. Not to say a Catholic would not visit a masjid and see what happens there. But why would you participate in salat unless you were Muslim?

Similarly, I don’t believe that non-Catholics participate in the defining moments of Catholic worship either (i.e. reception of the Eucharist). It just isn’t something you do unless you are Catholic.

But none of that touches the issue of whether or not we believe in the same God. We believe in the same God, it seems, but disagree very strongly over issues of how we understand God and who to best worship God. To say that we believe in the same God does not need to mean that we agree on every little thing (I would even wonder how many people who DO worship together actually have exact agreement on how they understand God??)

 

[Centos]

But none of that touches the issue of whether or not we believe in the same God. We believe in the same God, it seems, but disagree very strongly over issues of how we understand God and who to best worship God. To say that we believe in the same God does not need to mean that we agree on every little thing (I would even wonder how many people who DO worship together actually have exact agreement on how they understand God??)

I would say that Catholics believing that Christ is God the Son of God, and Muslims rejecting His Divinity completely, is not a “little thing.” But for the most part, I agree with you. I can’t see why (or how) Catholics and Muslims could worship together. That does not mean that we (as Catholics) can not accept that Muslims are men of good will who believe to the bottom of their heart that their religion is the true one. I would hope you can believe the same of Catholics.

May God be with you