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pathia
Guest
I haven’t heard of any same sex couples STEALING babies from the biological parents. How else would this happen?
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Feedmysheep
Guest
Thanks. I’ll check out the sites you listed. It’s always important to eliminate bad research from ALL sides.
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Annn
Guest
Feedmysheep, what situation did you have in mind when you made up your hypothetical gay family? I wasn’t interpreting your statement based on “what the mainstream media tells me,” just basing my comments on the children of same sex parents I know (six of them…though not all have parents who are still together, all were adopted or carried by a parent in a stable relationship…five of these are still together, though I understand I can draw no larger conclusions from these few people I know. Just like one of your studies which attempted to use 17 people as a “body of research”! Hardly a large enough pool, I think.)
A few weeks ago a poster on this board used a study by Stacey and Biblarz (2001) to prove her points against gay parents raising children. In studying child psychology this same study was given to me as a study whose findings were in favor of gay people being suitable parents. My point is is that this is a respected study which looks at all the respected studies on both sides of the issue to see what their methods have in common and where they stray, and to draw larger conclusions. I’d recommend taking a look at that study and also a sampling of the studies cited by the authors to get a reasonably well-rounded picture. While I would imagine we both disagree with some of Stacey and Biblarz’s conclusions there is a lot of good, sound research in their paper.
A few weeks ago a poster on this board used a study by Stacey and Biblarz (2001) to prove her points against gay parents raising children. In studying child psychology this same study was given to me as a study whose findings were in favor of gay people being suitable parents. My point is is that this is a respected study which looks at all the respected studies on both sides of the issue to see what their methods have in common and where they stray, and to draw larger conclusions. I’d recommend taking a look at that study and also a sampling of the studies cited by the authors to get a reasonably well-rounded picture. While I would imagine we both disagree with some of Stacey and Biblarz’s conclusions there is a lot of good, sound research in their paper.
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Annie_B
Guest
I think that a parent/parents of a single gender (in a loving, caring home) is going to be better for any child than getting stuck in the “social service” system of institutions and endless foster homes. I may have issues with the morality of a same sex couple, but there are countless children who are shuffled from one place to another without ANY stability whatsoever and then they are dumped from the sysyem when they are 18 years old without ever having had a family of any kind…The way parentless kids are treated in the system is more of a sin than a same sex-couple parenting them to adulthood. There is nothing worse for a child than growing up feeling that nobody ever really loved them.
Annie
Annie
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blessedtoo
Guest
Same sex parents who wish to conceive will have to obtain the necessary “elements” through outside sources. If they go through a “bank”, the child will not know the identity of his biological parent.
It isn’t only same sex parents either. There are plenty of single women who have chosen this route, when they decide to have children out of wedlock.
It is a deliberate “stealing” of the child’s right to know and be raised by his biological parent.
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pathia
Guest
Uh…what about adoption?
I know many same-sex couples with children, all of them went through the proper channels and adopted. There was no ‘bank’ and conception, they adopted children that were doomed to the broken foster home system. I’m fairly sure this is much more common than exotic fertility methods, for one it’s much cheaper and reliable.
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blessedtoo
Guest
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Gertabelle
Guest
I had a friend in college who was raised by her biological dad and his long-term boyfriend. Not only was she perfectly normal, she’d had a great adolescence and had extraordinary confidence in dealing with her boyfriends. I am a devout, CCC quoting Catholic. But I’m not sure the research proves out that adolescents with same-sex parents have it any harder than their hetero-parented peers. OTOH, they certainly have it easier than the students who call themselves something other than straight.
If I adopt a child, am I being unjust? If I get pregnant and give the child up for adoption, am I being unjust? What if exposing the child to the biological father/mother would do harm to the child? What would be the just thing to do then?
I think your basic idea may be great, but this statement is just too sweeping for me. The Church has taken her stand on the sinfulness of using “donated” spermor eggs. And it has nothing to do with being “unjust.”
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pathia
Guest
I know, but that is by far the minority in this issue.
Also, the sin in this procedure however I think would be whoever sold or left over all those eggs. It’s a kindness to adopt them, rather than let them linger forever in a pseudo-existence. How is that any different than adoption, in the end?
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blessedtoo
Guest
I think people don’t want to read what others post.
Urban-Hermit specifically highlighted the word “deliberately”. Does adopting an orphaned child “deliberately” deprive them of being raised by their biological parents? In this case, absolutely not, for the child has already been deprived of his right to the biological parent.
Read the posts people.
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blessedtoo
Guest
Please provide some facts to back up your assertions.
No one said anything about adoption being a deprivation of the child’s rights. In fact, you are right - the deprivation begins with the child abandonment.
In addition, a child who is adopted does have recourse to find the biological parent who, in most cases, is not anonymous. People who obtain the elements of reproduction through anonymous donors leave their children bereft of finding the true identity of their parentage.
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pathia
Guest
Facts? I really don’t understand what’s not to understand about what I said.
1.) Selling your sperm or eggs to a company that will parcel them out on a price based on your intelligence
2.) Actually bringing the children that were sold as a market good into the world.
Which of these is worse? I think the answer is pretty obvious to me. The one that does the depriving is the biological parent who ABANDONS their child to the machinations of a fertility firm.
My point is, they were already abandoned in the first place, the very fact they can be gotten anonymously means the biological parent has already abandoned them and has NO intention of ever finding out what happened to their child/ren. Why is adopting such neglected cases somehow, evil? The evil act was the abandonment and selling of the sperm/eggs.
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Salonika
Guest
Don’t think we can be definitive about this,
Sometimes it is not in the child’s best interests to be with parents eg if the child is being abused or neglected and their emotional health is being damaged as a result. This includes when there isn’t direct abuse eg where they are subjected to hearing parents constant fighting. In these situations, if the child can’t be made safe, the child shouldn’t with the parent or parents who are abusive.
Also if we say that children need parents of both genders what about children who lose a parent because of death or separation. Is the parent raising a child then oblige to remarry?
I strongly believe that all children need to have positive male and female role models in their lives. So if their father or mother is not in their lives, the remaining parent should do what they can do to make sure the child has contact with people of the opposite sex and knows some good role models eg a family member, godparent, a good friend or other trusted person. And if the parents are in a same sex relationship this is even more importat.
Sometimes it is not in the child’s best interests to be with parents eg if the child is being abused or neglected and their emotional health is being damaged as a result. This includes when there isn’t direct abuse eg where they are subjected to hearing parents constant fighting. In these situations, if the child can’t be made safe, the child shouldn’t with the parent or parents who are abusive.
Also if we say that children need parents of both genders what about children who lose a parent because of death or separation. Is the parent raising a child then oblige to remarry?
I strongly believe that all children need to have positive male and female role models in their lives. So if their father or mother is not in their lives, the remaining parent should do what they can do to make sure the child has contact with people of the opposite sex and knows some good role models eg a family member, godparent, a good friend or other trusted person. And if the parents are in a same sex relationship this is even more importat.
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blessedtoo
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pathia
Guest
Just my observations, which is what I said they were in the first place. I have not seen anything published that says they all use IVF either, anyways only lesbians could do that in the first place.
Gay men naturally aren’t going to do much expect adopt I would imagine.
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Gertabelle
Guest
Feel free to disagree with me. But I do request that you post in a spirit of charity, rather than accuse me of not wanting to read or just not reading others’ posts. That’s kind of rude and not worthy of your usually kind heart.
Gertie
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blessedtoo
Guest
Please accept my apology.
I did not intend to be rude.This topic can often become exasperating. Probably best to shut off the computer when I start to get frustrated.
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RachelsAlumni
Guest
Oh, very simple:
Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees
And the flowers and the trees
And the moon up abo-ove
And a thing called lo-o-ove
Let me tell you 'bout the stars in the sky
And a girl and a guy
And the way they could ki-i-iss
On a night like thi-i-is
When I look into your big brown eyes
Well it’s so very plain to see-ee-ee-hee-ee
That it’s time to learn about the facts of life
Starting from A to Zee
Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees
And the flowers and the trees
And the moon up abo-ove
And a thing called lo-o-ove
When I look into your big brown eyes
Well it’s so very plain to see-ee-ee-hee-ee
That it’s time to learn about the facts of life
Starting from A to Zee
Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees
And the flowers and the trees
And the moon up abo-ove
And a thing called lo-o-ove
Well let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees
And the flowers and the trees
And the birds and the bees
And the flowers and the trees
And the birds and the bees
ShaNaNa
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KingAlfred
Guest
As Catholics, we are to consider homosexuality disordered. How then can we even contemplate the ‘virtue’ of gay marriage and child-rearing? It’s a moot point.
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teancum79
Guest
I’m being a bis lazy and just skimmed the previous posts. A major problem in studies comparing same gender to traditional families is a major sampling bias. Most studies (at least in theory) try to take a random sample of people to study. Our societies not accepting of same gender families has resulted in many cases in only the very best same gender people having children in their care.
So many studies compare the very best same gendered families to the average traditional families.
Thus the making any such research questionable.
So many studies compare the very best same gendered families to the average traditional families.
Thus the making any such research questionable.
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