7
- Status
D
davidv
Guest
Why only in a Christian context? Judaism and Islam are not Christian.
K
Kaninchen
Guest
From a Jewish perspective, it’s all just ‘Covenant of the sons of Noah’ or not. From a Muslim perspective, I neither know nor care.
R
Richca
Guest
Yes, Christians and Jews worship the same God, namely, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of Israel. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph while on earth acknowledged and worshipped the God of Israel. They were Jews, Israelites. The difference between Judaism and Christianity is that the Jews who are not christian do not have the full truth concerning the God of Israel such as the Blessed Trinity. Nor do they believe that Jesus is God, that Jesus is the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity, nor that Jesus is the promised Messiah (the Christ) foretold by the prophets of Israel. For Christians, Jesus is the fullfillment of the Old Testament Law and Prophets as Jesus himself said.
R
reggieM
Guest
Yes, He told them the truth and they didn’t like it.No wonder Jesus made them angry then.
As Jesus told us – the Old Testament teaches about the coming of Jesus and with Him, the fullness of God is revealed.
Those who restrict their understanding to the Old Testament have a false understanding of God. They are ignoring the prophecies that point to Jesus (St. Paul said that).
God no longer wants to be limited to definition by the Old Testament - that’s why He gave us the New Covenant and fullness of Faith in his Revelation through Jesus and His Church.
Catholicism 101.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
Yes I understand all that, but that doesn’t mean we don’t worship the same God and He gave us a New Covenant, but he also kept His Covenant with the Jewish people.Yes, He told them the truth and they didn’t like it.
As Jesus told us – the Old Testament teaches about the coming of Jesus and with Him, the fullness of God is revealed.
Those who restrict their understanding to the Old Testament have a false understanding of God. They are ignoring the prophecies that point to Jesus (St. Paul said that).
God no longer wants to be defined by the Old Testament - that’s why He gave us the New Covenant and fullness of Faith in his Revelation through Jesus and His Church.
Catholicism 101.
R
reggieM
Guest
I find that a more consistent answer than merely saying “yes”.
From a Christian perspective, we may welcome various beliefs in God as if that is worshiping the same God.
Do Hindus worship the same God as Catholics?
Well, in this idea, yes. They worship Brahma, the creator of the world and all creatures.
Many Catholics will like to say that in the interest of being inclusive and showing shared beliefs.
But at the same time, we tend not to ask people of the other faiths if they think they’re worshiping the same God as us.
Muslims, for example, think we are polytheists (some Jews might also, but I have never seen any say that). So, we might think they’re worshiping our God, but they don’t think they are doing that at all.
R
reggieM
Guest
That part I don’t understand.
As I have always been taught and understand - the Catholic Church is the New Israel. The chosen people are within the Church, incorporated into the family of Abraham by the spiritual ancestry given through Christ’s body.
There is no longer Jew or Greek.
Just in practical terms, I don’t think anybody knows who or what “the Jewish people” are any more. Religion? Practice? Ethnicity? There are radically different ideas on all of that even among people who consider themselves to be Jewish.
But that’s a side point - I don’t want to get into that argument. The main one is that Catholicism is the fulfillment of the covenant God made to Abraham, Moses and the people of the Old Testament.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
Are you talking about replacement theology? I didn’t think that was a Catholic teaching. Maybe I am wrong.
R
reggieM
Guest
From the Catholic perspective, we find it best to put an emphasis on similarities of our religion with others.
This is a much more friendly and open approach - I fully agree with that and support it.
But if people do that too frequently without actually understanding our differences, then that’s not a good thing either.
This is a much more friendly and open approach - I fully agree with that and support it.
But if people do that too frequently without actually understanding our differences, then that’s not a good thing either.
R
reggieM
Guest
I’m not familiar with that particular theology — I could look it up, but have never heard of it used in Catholic teaching, so I will guess no.
Ok, we would not say 'replaced". The New Covenant fulfilled the Old. It doesn’t replace - it’s the same people of God, same Chosen People, same Israel. It just goes by another name, “The Catholic Church”
The Catholic Faith is not something new. It is the same Faith of Abraham. Jesus made that clear. Abraham rejoiced to see His day.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
You might want to look it up.
R
reggieM
Guest
I added to my comment above.
R
reggieM
Guest
No, not replacement theology.
We would not say 'replaced". The New Covenant fulfilled the Old. It doesn’t replace - it’s the same people of God, same Chosen People, same Israel. It just goes by another name, “The Catholic Church”
The Catholic Faith is not something new. It is the same Faith of Abraham. Jesus made that clear. Abraham rejoiced to see His day
We would not say 'replaced". The New Covenant fulfilled the Old. It doesn’t replace - it’s the same people of God, same Chosen People, same Israel. It just goes by another name, “The Catholic Church”
The Catholic Faith is not something new. It is the same Faith of Abraham. Jesus made that clear. Abraham rejoiced to see His day
D
davidv
Guest
What do you mean by “same” here? It seems to be an oversimplification.
R
reggieM
Guest
Of course. Those He was not referring to were His followers.
R
reggieM
Guest
Catholicism is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. There is only one true religion.
Judiasm prophecied a Messiah.
The Messiah has come.
Judiasm is fulfilled with the Jewish Messiah - Jesus.
There is still just one true religion - the same one God formed with Abraham and Moses and the Prophets.
Jesus taught this same truth.
The Catholic Church is the chosen people of God. The only difference is that it is not restricted to ethnicity any more.
D
davidv
Guest
Thanks. That helps me understand what was meant
K
Kaninchen
Guest
It’s rather hard to consider the number of times I’ve regaled my fellow denizens of CAF with the versions of: “Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus, Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus, they’re very different religions with different paradigms and different foci.”
The idea that we all worship the same God is, I think (especially when we’re dealing with the usual suspects of Judaism/Christianity/Islam), the kind of trivial truth that conceals more than it reveals.
From a Jewish perspective, I’d suggest it’s more a problem of the boundaries of ‘idolatry’ (ascribing human characteristics to God rather than the apparently obvious issue of ‘graven images’).
R
reggieM
Guest
That’s an important point.
Yes, exactly, The Catholic documents that offer that idea (that we all worship the same God) do so in a generalized way. It looks at certain attributes of God that all those religions have in common (oneness, creator, powerful, merciful) and then attempts (in the name of friendship and goodwill) to draw an equivalency. But certainly, Muslims believe God (Allah) authored the Quran and in that text we find many aspects of God that are quite different than Catholicism.
So, if today I decide to worship Allah and deny the Blessed Trinity, given that Catholic teaching says it’s “the same God”, I will have misread and understood the teaching (which many people do).
That is interesting. Thanks.
- Status