Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[Ahimsa]

After the fall of Constantinople (1453), the city named after the first Christian emperor and a seat of Christendom for more than 1,000 years, Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa, a towering intellect and an experienced church diplomat, affirmed unambiguously that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, albeit partly differently understood. Significantly, in response to the fall of Constantinople and the Muslim threat, Nicholas of Cusa advocated “conversation” rather than “crusade,” a strategy pursued doggedly though unsuccessfully by his friend, Pope Pius II. For Nicholas believed that war could never solve the issue between Christendom and Islam.

We live in a different world than Nicholas and Pius II did, but our options are roughly the same. We should resolutely follow Nicholas. The terrorists must be stopped. As to the 1.6 billion Muslims, with them we must build a common future, one based on equal dignity of each person, economic opportunity and justice for all and freedom to govern common affairs through democratic institutions. Muslims and Christians have a set of shared fundamental values that can guide such a vision partly because they have a common God.

On Feb. 18, during the “Day of Celebration,” Sheik al-Qaradawi – one of the most influential Muslim clerics in the world, exiled from Egypt since 1961 – addressed the crowd of over one million. He began by noting that he is discarding the customary opening “Oh, Muslims.” In favor of “Oh, Muslims and Copts.” He praised both for bringing about the revolution together. And he added, “I invite you to bow down in prayer together.” Such prayer, addressed to the common God in distinct ways, lies at the foundation of hope for a new Egypt…

 

[Defender1]

Ahimsa:
The Catechism states that GOD does have a plan for salvation for the muslims . They worship God the father . The god of the old testament just as the Jews do.Surely they do reject the trinity but they do worship the first divine person in the trinity . God the father .

 

[odile53]

Additionally, the Muslims consider themselves descendants of Abraham, via the line of Ishmael, as opposed to Isaac, and while they do not worship Jesus or believe in the Holy Spirit, they do venerate Jesus as a prophet. Interestingly enough, the Virgin Mary is mentioned several times in the Koran, more than she is mentioned in the Gospels. More moderate Muslims historically have considered Christians and Jews “people of the book,” geopolitical issues and conflicts notwithstanding.

 

[SGWessells]

There is an older thread on this same topic, which goes into great detail, with copious quotes from Christian and Muslim sources. Rather than cover the same ground again, why not seek it out?

 

[Rocky]

*On Feb. 18, during the “Day of Celebration,” Sheik al-Qaradawi – one of the most influential Muslim clerics in the world, exiled from Egypt since 1961 – addressed the crowd of over one million. He began by noting that he is discarding the customary opening “Oh, Muslims.” In favor of “Oh, Muslims and Copts.” He praised both for bringing about the revolution together. And he added, “I invite you to bow down in prayer together.” *Such prayer, addressed to the common God in distinct ways, lies at the foundation of hope for a new Egypt…

So where is Sheik Al-Qaradawi now that the Copts in Egypt are being killed and their churches destroyed? Did any Muslim in Egypt actually listen to him? And is there a “foundation of hope for a new Egypt?” Or just more of first Muslim against Christian, and then Muslim against Muslim?

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

The Catechism states that GOD does have a plan for salvation for the muslims . They worship God the father . The god of the old testament just as the Jews do.Surely they do reject the trinity but they do worship the first divine person in the trinity . God the father .

God’s plan for muslims is the same plan for everyone really. His plan for salvation is His Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[Peace_of_cake]

Interestingly I’m in dialogue with Muslims at present about the trinity.
Most compelling evidence is: from Vatican II where In NA it clearly states we worship the same God; from the Quran it clearly says we worship the same God.
There are some details that need discussion, but these are the daddy in terms of sources and so in principal we worship the same God whatever anyone else may say

 

[MorningSong51]

It must be noted that both Jews and Christians who live in Arab countries and speak Arabic as their native tongues refer to God in the vernacular as الله (Allah). Allah is the combination of the definite article الـ al- with the word for “god,” إله ilah. The combination would produce a theoretical الإله al-ilah, but the hamza إ drops out, leaving two laams (للـ). Thus, the form اللـه or الله (Allah), which simply means “the God.”

al + ilah > *al-ilah > *alilah > allah

By the way, the hamza is comparable to the Hebrew alef (א), and إله is a direct cognate of אלוה, Allah is not the personal name of a given deity. It is simply the definite form of “god” = the God.

So some more thoughts, and one worth noting because of the Christians who live in Arab countries, that being Lebanon, Syria, Morocco, Iraq…etc, - also. Laam (ل) is a moon letter, so it is doubled when the definite article precedes it. This accounts for the shadda (ّ ) that appears above the second laam. Also, this makes the first laam silent (isn’t Arabic complicated?). So, we only have two laams, even though the shadda makes it look like there are three.

الله = allah (the second ‘a’ is represented with the “dagger alif” above the shadda).

I just figured that I would complete the explanation since I opened the can of worms. This would also keep people from correcting me immediately. (If there is anyone else here who has studied basic Arabic grammar.) In the essential nature of God it maybe said that, yes - the God of the Muslims defer from that of Christian belief - in theory. In Hebrew, the word “trinity” is שילוש shilush or שלישיה shlishiyah, which is built on the word שלוש shalosh, “three.” In the Qur’an, the word for “trinity” is ثلاثة thalaatha, “three.” (**side note: Unfortunately, the word thalatha was mistranslated as “trinity” by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. His translation of Surah 4:171 (from Arabic to English) reads, “Say not “trinity” (the Qur’an in Arabic states “say not thalatha”). ….Again, thalatha only means “three,” and it is certainly different from the word “Trinity,” which means three in the unity of one.)

and just for reference as well, some Muslims don’t even believe in the Mahdi at all, but for many who do he does not replace Jesus as Messiah but assists him in teaching the people and killing Dajjal (Arabic for “the false messiah”), much as Elijah (This question is about Elijah (Mahdi)) is thought to do in Jewish beliefs.

I’ve only run into a few here and there over the years who think Mahdi is Messiah, yet they are usually silent when I point out that Jesus is the only one in the Quran who is called Messiah. This is just a matter of poor education and doesn’t reflect what the Hadith and Quran actually say.

Reference:

For (only) thalaatha trinity - explanation: LINK
Khatim an-Nabuwwah: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatim_an-NLabuwwah

 

[MorningSong51]

Reference:

For (only) thalaatha trinity - explanation: LINK
Khatim an-Nabuwwah: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatim_an-NLabuwwah
and, last:
Khidr: LINK, To Sufis, al-Khiḍr holds a very dear place. Although amongst the Sunni scholars there is a difference of opinion about him being still alive, amongst Sunni Sufis there is almost a consensus that al-Khiḍr is still alive, with many respected figures and shaykhs, and prominent leaders claiming having had personal encounters with him. Examples of those who had claim this are Ghawth Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani, Imam an-Nawawi, Muhyideen Ibn Arabi, Sidi Abdul Aziz ad-Dabbagh and Ahmad ibn Idris al-Fasi. Ibn ‘Ata’ Allah in Lata’if al-Minan (1:84-98) states that there is consensus among the Sufis that al-Khiḍr is alive.

 

[MorningSong51]

God’s plan for Muslims is the same plan for everyone really. His plan for salvation is His Son, Jesus Christ.

Agree, and Amen. Good thought…

 

[apfrita]

Interestingly I’m in dialogue with Muslims at present about the trinity.
Most compelling evidence is: from Vatican II where In NA it clearly states we worship the same God; from the Quran it clearly says we worship the same God.
There are some details that need discussion, but these are the daddy in terms of sources and so in principal we worship the same God whatever anyone else may say

Can God contradict himself? He has revealed to the Christians that Jesus is his Son. After sending his Son Jesus, God did not have to send any further prophets (it would be like saying that after sending the Prime Minister to solve a problem you would afterwards require to send another mere Minister). The Jews believe that their last prophet came in around 445 BC, prophet Malachi. The Christians believe that the last prophet was John the Baptist and Jesus is the Son of God, much greater than a prophet, since John the Baptist said that he was not worthy to untie Jesus’ sandals. The Christians also believe that all public revelation about God stopped after the Bible was cannonized and nothing can be added or subtracted to/from the Bible (The canon was finalized in 393 AD in the Council of Hippo and ratified in the Council of Carthage in 397 AD).

However Muslims believe that the last prophet to come was Muhammed who came much after Jesus and gave them the Quran (He was born in 570 AD and died in 632 AD). If that is the case then there is a clear contradiction between what the Christians believe and what the Muslims believe. This would lead to the conclusion that the Christians and the Muslims don’t believe in the same God otherwise that one God would be clearly contradicting himself which is impossible. If they believe in the same God, then both Christians and Muslims would have to compromise on their basic beliefs.

Please understand that this argument is not to say who is right or wrong - whether Muslims or Christians. This argument is given only to prove that the claim made that Muslims and Christians believe in the same God seems to have outright contradictions. Your comments are most welcome.

 

[Peace_of_cake]

Can God contradict himself?

You have brought up an interesting point. Think we could say its one of perspective. To Gods ‘Mind’ He is what He is. To humans who are not absolute and merely relative then we may have a different perception. To draw an analogy…
I might say Hugh Grant is cool because I know him through the films he’s been in and like his acting. However, someone who works with him may dislike him as they find him rude a conceited. We have different perspectives but are still referring to the same essence of ‘Hugh Grant.’ Likewise a Muslim will have one perspective, a Christian another yet we refer to the same Being. Of course both cannot be fully right in reality one perspective is somewhat erroneous having only got one ‘side’ of God, rather like in my analogy me knowing Hugh Grant through his movies only (i.e. an inferior way of knowing him than in person).
God knows Himself

 

[apfrita]

You have brought up an interesting point. Think we could say its one of perspective. To Gods ‘Mind’ He is what He is. To humans who are not absolute and merely relative then we may have a different perception. To draw an analogy…
I might say Hugh Grant is cool because I know him through the films he’s been in and like his acting. However, someone who works with him may dislike him as they find him rude a conceited. We have different perspectives but are still referring to the same essence of ‘Hugh Grant.’ Likewise a Muslim will have one perspective, a Christian another yet we refer to the same Being. Of course both cannot be fully right in reality one perspective is somewhat erroneous having only got one ‘side’ of God, rather like in my analogy me knowing Hugh Grant through his movies only (i.e. an inferior way of knowing him than in person).
God knows Himself

Read the material at the following URL: Its interesting.
answering-islam.org/Hoaxes/vatican2.html

 

[GaryTaylor]

Did you read this link by any chance? I believe many of the same questions have surfaced here. SirStephen bought up a few very intersting points.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=596369

I have seem muslims forefit their live trying to save a Christian live. I know muslims can read the Koran and take out a message of unconditional love. I see more muslims converting to Christ than ever before.

The Coptic Church is a major concern today as are the Jews their in case you haven’t seen the past weeks news. And yes we all have been through this with Islam. Jihad existed in Rome from 700-1000-AD. You’ve seen/heard about the persecution of Christians with the EO, and today.

Peace

 

[manualman]

It’s really a matter of semantics. You can build an argument that muslims and christians worship different gods based on the differences in their beliefs. You can build an argument that says both worship the same God, but at least one of them has significant errors in their understanding of Him.

I think CS Lewis nailed the problem pretty darn well in the conclusion book of his Narnia series. In summary: When a muslim worships Allah and that faith manifests itself in the ways we all recognize as repentance and desire and openness to Grace, he is worshipping the same God we are. When a muslim (or christian for that matter) uses his religious beliefs as a prop to justify his greed, hatred, fear or power lust, he is worshipping the devil, regardless of what words he uses to describe his faith.

Actually, I’m pretty sure Lewis wrote the Calormen in the Narnia series to represent the Islamic world.

 

[apfrita]

You have brought up an interesting point. Think we could say its one of perspective. To Gods ‘Mind’ He is what He is. To humans who are not absolute and merely relative then we may have a different perception. To draw an analogy…
I might say Hugh Grant is cool because I know him through the films he’s been in and like his acting. However, someone who works with him may dislike him as they find him rude a conceited. We have different perspectives but are still referring to the same essence of ‘Hugh Grant.’ Likewise a Muslim will have one perspective, a Christian another yet we refer to the same Being. Of course both cannot be fully right in reality one perspective is somewhat erroneous having only got one ‘side’ of God, rather like in my analogy me knowing Hugh Grant through his movies only (i.e. an inferior way of knowing him than in person).
God knows Himself

No it is not one of human perspective. Reason is that with human perspective you can seek God and find him in your own ways, but they are still human ways with limitations. But when God reveals himself then that revelation can be safely treated as complete. What proof we have that Jesus was God and not a mere prophet?. He is the only person who claimed himself to be equal to God and was willing to lose his disciples for that and also die for that truth. If we analyse Jesus then we can come only to one conclusion: He is who he says he is, or he is a liar or a deranged person. But his clean and pure earthly life 2000 yrs ago, his nature miracles, his healing of various diseases even like leprosy (which has no healing even today), his bringing dead people to life, his forgiveness for his persecutors/murderers from the cross even at the time of his death and his resurrection from the dead suggest very clearly that he is God. Another proof that he is God is clear from what he said to Peter in the gospels, “You are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” It was because of this promise that the church founded on Peter, the Catholic church is still strong and one, whereas those churches which have split from the Catholic church have formed thousands of splinter groups. Only God can sustain his promise without any limitation.

Even the Muslims believe that he was a true prophet of God. Then if this is so, why don’t they believe that he is what he says he is, the Son of God. Can a true prophet lie? The real problem with Muslims is that if they start believing that Jesus is the son of God then they will have to stop believing in Muhammed as prophet since it would be superfluous for God to send his Son to declare His will to the world and then after many years send another prophet as if His Son did a bad job and God made a mistake by sending his Son.

The Vatican II documents have never said anything about prophet Mohammed or about the Quran. They have just made statements that Muslims claim to worship the God of Abraham and they beleive in one God who will judge humanity in the end (see the link I had posted in my last post)

Christians don’t have their own perspective of God. They have simply taken the perspective that Jesus himself showed to them as the ultimate revelation of God.

Of course God wants all Christians to tell the whole world about the true nature of Jesus (including Muslims) and pray that the Holy Spirit will give them the grace to accept this fact

 

[Peace_of_cake]

No it is not one of human perspective

Yes Vatican II didn’t say anything about the Quran or Muhammad, if it did then it would have made no sense. It stated that we worship the same God and praised Muslims for virtuous acts. In other words it was setting out some areas of commonality. We therefore have more in common with them than many other groups.
I would still say that it is perspective since you’ve assumed the Biblical account is correct. A muslim wouldn’t. So we’d get into a stale mate wouldn’t we? My revelation says this so you’re wrong, but my revelation says something else so you’re wrong ad infinitum. We argue, but this doesn’t change the nature of God.
So a Christian should affirm their beliefs, but since only God knows all then we need to take the possibility that we may be wrong. To do otherwise is arrogance. Also to do otherwise is to suggest the other religion has no right to exist even though God’s plan has empirically proved otherwise. Interesting our best scholar on Islam Louis Massignon said: “mysterious answer of (divine) grace to Abraham’s prayer for Ismael and the Arab race”. (Borrmans, 122).
We differ, we feel they are inferior, but we have some common ground and have a right to exist. God is the only judge

 

[Lisa44]

Why did Jesus stop people from stoning to death the adulterous woman?

And then why did God instruct the Muslims to bury women up to their necks and stone them?

Why did Jesus tell men to have only one wife? And then the same God says, ok, 4 wives?

Why did Jesus tell men not to put their wives away? And then the same god tells Muslims they may have divorce by saying to their wives 3 times “I divorce you”?

Why did Jesus tell people there were no husbands and wives in heaven, and then the same god says a few hundred years later that there are women in heaven?

Why did Jesus say to turn the other cheek and then the same god tells people to kill infidels?

Why did Jesus say to spread the gospel and then later tell his people to ban the bible?

If it is the same god then the Catholic church should really elaborate on their statements and explain to us how their god can be diametrically opposed to our god, and yet the same?

How can two beliefs be diametrically opposed to each other, and yet, be the same?

How is it that we can know anything about God, except through his revellation to us, and how is it possible that two diametrically opposed revellations can be from the same god.

I would LOVE to hear more from the Catholic church on this.

They really have some explaining to do.

 

[Defender1]

God’s plan for muslims is the same plan for everyone really. His plan for salvation is His Son, Jesus Christ.

I was not really getting at that point . I was pointing out that the church does not condemn them to Hell in fact opposite however they are in error for rejecting the trinity of course

 

[Peace_of_cake]

Lisa44:
Well it is the magisterium that said it was the same God after careful research prayer and meditation. Lets not let media driven rubbish go against the Churches teaching. To be honest based on some of the examples you suggest they are only ‘diametrically opposed’ in your mind, not in reality. I’m sorry you feel that way