Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

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I worked with several muslims for many years. They were hard workers, dedicated to their beliefs and to their families. We had some interesting conversations at times concerning the differences between Christianity and Islam. Some were Kurdish and some were Arabs. One of the Kurds challenged me one day. He said that I should read the Koran. I told him that I’d read the Koran if he’d read the Bible. He said he would. So I gave him a Bible and he gave me a Koran. I can tell you from reading the Koran and studying the history of Islam that we definitely do not worship the same God. The muslims teach that God doesn’t have a son. Yet they also teach that the prophets of the Old Testament were truly prophets of God. In Proverbs 30:4 we read," Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in His fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, if thou canst tell?" We know that God does have a Son. Also, before Muhammed began promoting allah as the one god, he was a polythiest. He believed in many gods, until he arrived at Mecca. There were many idols in Mecca. Allah was the moon god, among many others in Mecca. After his supposed vision and visitation by Gabril( Gabriel) he supposedly destroyed all the idols in Mecca except allah the moon god. The god of Islam is the moon god, not the God of the faith once delivered unto the saints, the only true and living God.
 
You lost me again, in reference to the OP question, I still have no idea what your position is.
What law are you talking about? The ten commandments says thou shalt not murder.

Can you show me where in the torah it states that adulterers should be stoned to death?

Sharia law is not from the torah by the way. I think a Jew would be very insulted by that.

Sharia law comes from the Koran and hadith.
Lisa - if you know that Sharia law must come from the Qur’an and hadith, are you asking me to locate in the Torah where it states that adulterers should be stoned to death? - You don’t know where its located or can’t find in the Qur’an? Are you Muslim, by the way? Do you know the verbiage or correct pronunciation for the word Governor in Arabic - or in Farsi? Is that a strong hint!
 
… , and in the case of Sharia law - it basically reflects or mirrors the Torah. …
Sharia law comes from the Koran and the hadith, not from the Torah. You can google it.

“Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law based on the Koran and the words and actions of the prophet Mohammed and his followers.”
 
Its peace of cake… I spent a long time coming up with that play on words 😛
Anyway, given the authority by which I make the claim then are you suggesting the Church should be careful what it says :confused:
It is both male and female (don’t know why you mentioned only women before???) adulterers (not fornicators) given strict conditions (so strict that the Ottomons did it once in its 900 years tenyor of the Muslims) and it is also a law prescribed in the OT too (so was that a different God?). I dont think it is understood Jesus’ condemnation was so much for the law per se but rather its implimentation, i.e. He was adding a new dimension to justice namely mercy and empathy.
The Church has a long history of punishing crimes of the ‘occult’ so socerers, heretics, sodomisers etc were burnt at the stake. Interestingly a Muslim would see this as abhorent since ‘only God punishes by fire.’
Historically there have been harsh punishments and it is only as we become more worldly do we suddenly have this tendency to take everything lightly. Are sins dealt with more severely on Earth or in Purgatory or Hell? Is it more merciful to let people wonder into Hell or put up great big deterents?
Anyway these were just some things to think about.
Did Jesus support the stoning of adulterers? Yes or no?
 
Think most of the references to stoning are in Deuteronomy (Exodus also contains much law), one such example is:
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Thank you.
 
No we don’t worship the same God

the God of islam has nothing to do with the real God

however ’ They (muslims) believe that they worship the same God

and we acknowledge that they confess that

but of course that does not mean that our God is theirs

our God said to us to love our enemies

the God of Islam said in 6:40

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone

and in 58:22

You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. Those - He has decreed within their hearts faith and supported them with spirit from Him. And We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally. Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him - those are the party of Allah . Unquestionably, the party of Allah - they are the successful.

and of course not only in loving your enemies is the problem but even on what is heaven , and who is God to us for example we call God our Father

while the God of Islam address that showing how confused he is in understanding our teachings

5:18

But the Jews and the Christians say, “We are the children of Allah and His beloved.” Say, “Then why does He punish you for your sins?” Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination

and in 21:17 he confirm what he said

Had We intended to take a diversion, We could have taken it from [what is] with Us - if [indeed] We were to do so

according to islamic commentary like al jalalin and ibn kather Allah means , God can take from the virgins in his host and marry them if he want

and in 6:101 he confirm this again

The Ever-Innovating of the heavens and the earth-however does He have a child, and He has no female companion, and He created everything, and He is Ever-Knowing of everything?

in conclusion , we are not talking about the same God , and this is not the God of Christianity !This is a god goes against the God of the bible
 
Well it is the magisterium that said it was the same God after careful research prayer and meditation. Lets not let media driven rubbish go against the Churches teaching. To be honest based on some of the examples you suggest they are only ‘diametrically opposed’ in your mind, not in reality. I’m sorry you feel that way
what ? DOnt you put words in my mouth .The CATECHSIM states that they do worship the god of the OT . THey reject the trinity which we accept of course . Walk in m y shoes and debate muslims on a regular basis before critiquing my comments about muslims faith .
 
Well it is the magisterium that said it was the same God after careful research prayer and meditation. Lets not let media driven rubbish go against the Churches teaching. To be honest based on some of the examples you suggest they are only ‘diametrically opposed’ in your mind, not in reality. I’m sorry you feel that way
At least my Church, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod has said that Muslims do not worship the same God of the Jews of the O.T. but that they worship a god named Allah.
 
Sharia law comes from the Koran and the hadith, not from the Torah. You can google it.

“Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law based on the Koran and the words and actions of the prophet Mohammed and his followers.”
Lisa 44,

You were looking for a quote in the Torah, Bible or Qur’an on stoning??? Boy! and You asked me to reduce my information in one or two sentences??? Can you kindly reduce the number of questions to just one or two? - Some of those questions you asked, aren’t requiring a short sentence, are they?
Why did Jesus stop people from stoning to death the adulterous woman?
And then why did God instruct the Muslims to bury women up to their necks and stone them?
Why did Jesus tell men to have only one wife? And then the same God says, ok, 4 wives?
Why did Jesus tell men not to put their wives away? And then the same god tells Muslims they may have divorce by saying to their wives 3 times “I divorce you”?
Those are some of the questions you asked - Hey! Piece of Cake can you take these questions to the other board (you mentioned) and see if my answers were any good? You know I had to compare them with another board**
Seems like you have copied and pasted information for me to read, thank you but i’ve read through them years ago. Sharia law is from the Koran - didn’t say that it wasn’t, what I said was that they reflect or mirror the Torah in aspects of the law, and for example:

Purification
Dietary Law
Code of Conduct
Family law
Only nations that prefer skullcap (kufi or kippah) for men.
Governing legal system - ones that hear and interpret the law

I could go on and on…The Five Pillars/ Proverbs lists Seven: “Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:”

The arkan ad-din or five pillars of religion form the basis for sharia law. The first, Shahadah, is an affirmation of belief. The second pillar, Salat, is a solemn obligation to pray in accordance with strict rituals. The third pillar is Sawm Ramadan, which involves fasting. The fourth, Zakat, regulates alms-giving. The last pillar is Hajj, or the pilgrimage to Mecca that every Muslim must undertake.

Morningsong51 previous quote:
Sure - in one or two sentences. These laws that we’re reading about in scripture and in other religions, is based on maximum usage of the law - there was no compassion when they deliberated them. Christ - taught the law and also taught them how to follow the law “What does the law acknowledge, Be you therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful and be to one another kind, compassionate, forgiving one another, so as God also in Christ has forgiven you” In some cases today and in the past, compassion, mercy and good judgment, is/was not being used within the law - that’s why so many women/wives/people are leaving the faith and converting over to other religions - so it is a wrong. It necessary to understand, that Christ was obedient in every way, and that He was One with the Father – in likeness, image and in wisdom - and in Precedence in law - to be able to argue the fact of.
Originally posted by Lisa 44:
You lost me again, in reference to the OP question, I still have no idea what your position is. What law are you talking about? The ten commandments says thou shalt not murder.
Sharia is a term which refers to a way in which a legal code can be devised in accordance with (Islamic) theological principles. Since man is by default imperfect, and man devises a worldly legal code, and God devises the spiritual master legal code, we (humans) can only do our best to try to form a legal code which is in accordance with divine principle.

Therefore if a law seems unjust or immoral, that is the fault of the person who interpolated that law (in other words, made it up based on his understanding).

Per quote: would you like my source? We both can view a scholar’s thoughts

That all said, the law of the Hebrews is very similar. If one understands Mosaic law there is a lot of sense to be made out of it. Jesus didn’t come to say, ‘we don’t need all this stuff’, he came to say ‘remember WHY we are doing this stuff, there is a reason, don’t follow the law(rules/practice) mindlessly, otherwise what’s the point?’

reference:
**
Direct quote to Lisa: Do you know the verbiage or correct pronunciation for the word Governor in Arabic - or in Farsi? Is that a strong hint! **

A local Islamic scholar whose school I have visited for lectures before used to always teach us, Islamic law says you must follow the law of the country you live in. If it compromises your faith, you can leave that country, but you should always obey the law of the land. And who governs the laws in that country? Who assigns Qadi? …

Qadi (also known as qaadi, qaadee, qazi, kazi or kadi) (Arabic: قاضي‎ qāḍī) is a judge ruling in accordance with Islamic religious law (sharia) appointed by the ruler of a Muslim country. Because Islam makes no distinction between religious and secular domains, qadis traditionally have jurisdiction over all legal matters involving Muslims. The judgment of a qadi must be based on ijmah, the prevailing consensus of the Islamic scholars (ulema).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qadi

Jewish, law of the land and law of return: big, big issues. Dina d’malchuta dina (“the law of the land is law”)

Family Law: The Origins of Islamic Law (Constitutional Rights Foundation (CRF))
Islamic law represents one of the world’s great legal systems. Like Judaic law, which influenced western legal systems, Islamic law originated as an important part of the religion.
crf-usa.org/america-responds-to-terrorism/the-origins-of-islamic-law.html

Read more: What Is Sharia? | eHow.com ehow.com/about_6812840_sharia_.html#ixzz1Yeg97ugK
 
Originally Posted by Peace of cake View Post
Think most of the references to stoning are in Deuteronomy (Exodus also contains much law)

Yes, thanks! and also another Yes, Exodus contains the same identical laws:clapping:
 
The main question was: "Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

There have been many digressions from this main topic into other areas, which makes one lose track. But from the various responses to the main question, it is clear that Muslims at best worship a god that is completely different from the God of the Christians. The God of the Jews is the same God as the Christians but with their lack of knowledge of the Son of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Of course on coming to this conclusion, we cannot say that Muslims are inferior to Christians or Jews. No person in this world is inferior to anyone else, since they were all created by the one God, who is the God of the Jews as well as the Christians. But beliefs can be inferior or superior based on how much those beliefs are based on actual revelation from God, or opinions of God from a human perspective. Once God reveals himself, claiming to be God and proving inconclusively like Jesus did, it does not give much choice to human beings. They have to either accept the true God who revealed himself or reject him and choose to worship a god of their own making.

The Catholic Church, the only Church which was started by Jesus himself on Peter, says in its Cathechism that every religion has a ray of truth about God, but the full revelation, the complete truth came through the revelation of Jesus and that is the truth that the Catholic Church has been safe guarding right from the first century AD. The Catholic Church cannot be called arrogant for this belief. Because this belief did not come by man searching for the truth and then discovering it but it was revealed by God himself when he came in the flesh on this earth about 2000 years back as Jesus, the Son of God made flesh.

Of course a day will come, when it will be inconclusively proven that Jesus is God and he is going to judge the whole world (both Christians and non-Christians) but till that time hope people can be humble enough to accept the truth given by God as the true religion and not formulate their own code of truth. Following one’s own code of truth, is what I belive is true arrogance since Only God can reveal who he truly is. Men cannot just search and get the full revelation of God.

I think from all the religions of the world the one and only True God revealed himself to only two people, the Jews first and then as the revelation progressed it came to its fullness in his Son Jesus.
 
Islam teaches that God is the Creator and Sustain-er of the Universe and everything that exists within it and He is the ONLY Deity who is worthy of worship.

If Christians agree with this definition of who God is and subsequently worship Him, then this means that they are worshiping the same God as Muslims do.
 
what ? DOnt you put words in my mouth .The CATECHSIM states that they do worship the god of the OT . THey reject the trinity which we accept of course . Walk in m y shoes and debate muslims on a regular basis before critiquing my comments about muslims faith .
Think we got our wires crossed there mate. Meant my quote for the post that preceded yours.
Not in any real debate with you here 🙂 As you say the Catechism teaches we worship the same God just like the Jews. Ok we have been blessed with a special favour a more personal loving disclosure, but none the less the same God. Which then of course asks the question why this debate carries on?
Don’t you get the impression sometimes when talking to fellow Catholics that there are a lot of [wanna be] Popes? Of course we could take our authority from a German renegades teaching that ended up in Missouri??? Lol. Sorry probably should be more respectful to that poster, but couldn’t resist
 
Yes, thanks! and also another Yes, Exodus contains the same identical laws:clapping:
Some very useful posts, so thank-you. I dabble in a bit of Arabic and so much appreciated your break down of the Arabic ‘Allah’ 👍
 
Did Jesus support the stoning of adulterers? Yes or no?
Unfortunately I think this statement shows where we’re at. Things just aren’t that simple. Looking at NT then there is no clear prohibition… In someways his Jesus’ saying he didn’t come to abolish the law may suggest he didn’t. Of course mere text is meaningless, it’s the meaning that is key. Generally Canon Law went with Rome so think stoning disappeared just as relationship with Jews did. Other than heresy sexual perversion was the most severely punished. Adultery slightly on the more lenient side of this. It would be wrong however to be dismissive of Shariah severity as a proof since such severity exists in Canon Law. Just because the modern mindset cannot comprehend it doesn’t make it wrong
 
Unfortunately I think this statement shows where we’re at. Things just aren’t that simple. Looking at NT then there is no clear prohibition… In someways his Jesus’ saying he didn’t come to abolish the law may suggest he didn’t. Of course mere text is meaningless, it’s the meaning that is key. Generally Canon Law went with Rome so think stoning disappeared just as relationship with Jews did. Other than heresy sexual perversion was the most severely punished. Adultery slightly on the more lenient side of this. It would be wrong however to be dismissive of Shariah severity as a proof since such severity exists in Canon Law. Just because the modern mindset cannot comprehend it doesn’t make it wrong
Let me add one more option:
Did Jesus support the stoning of adulterers?

a. yes
b. no
c. I don’t know
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church 841 must be read together with 65 to 73

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Part I, Section I, Chapter II.
III. CHRIST JESUS – "MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION"25

God has said everything in his Word

65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27

There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

IN BRIEF
73 God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant for ever. The Son is his Father’s definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him./U]
 
Let me add one more option:
Did Jesus support the stoning of adulterers?

a. yes
b. no
c. I don’t know
Jesus did NOT support the stoning of ANYONE] in ANY WAY for ANY REASON. Only a profoundly dishonest mind bent on reading things into the new testament that simply are not there,(just to justify the inhumane nature and even barbarism of other religions) can conclude this plainest of lies. Too bad if other faiths do not have a founder matching the moral beauty, impeccability and perfection of Christ, too bad if their founder does not simply ooze love and mercy with every breath, word and action, as Christ. To impute anything but love and mercy and total uncompromising tolerance to all sinners of all kinds, including those who brutalized him and dehumanized him insanely, is blasphemy. Please…anyone… do not lie about Christ in order to hide the stark contrast between him and others, just so you can justify Islam.
 
Think we got our wires crossed there mate. Meant my quote for the post that preceded yours.
Not in any real debate with you here 🙂 As you say the Catechism teaches we worship the same God just like the Jews. Ok we have been blessed with a special favour a more personal loving disclosure, but none the less the same God. Which then of course asks the question why this debate carries on?
Don’t you get the impression sometimes when talking to fellow Catholics that there are a lot of [wanna be] Popes? Of course we could take our authority from a German renegades teaching that ended up in Missouri??? Lol. Sorry probably should be more respectful to that poster, but couldn’t resist
I apologize brother/sister .
 
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