Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[schaick]

Schaick,

Ethics, also known as moral philosophy, is a branch of philosophy that addresses questions about morality — that is, concepts such as good and evil, right and wrong, virtue and vice, justice and crime, etc.

Major branches of ethics include:

Meta-ethics, about the theoretical meaning and reference of moral propositions and how their truth values (if any) may be determined;
**
Normative ethics**, about the practical means of determining a moral course of action;

Applied ethics, about how moral outcomes can be achieved in specific situations;
**
Moral psychology**, about how moral capacity or moral agency develops and what its nature is;

Descriptive ethics, about what moral values people actually abide by.

Human ethics is relative to how each people/or peoples relate to one another – so what about common ethics or “shared ethics”? In the Book of Leviticus and even in the Book of Deuteronomy the word “Love” appears four times – You shall love your neighbor as yourself, You shall love the stranger as yourself, You shall love the Lord your God, You shall love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

"The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a maxim,[2] an ethical code, or a morality,[3] that essentially states either of the following:

1. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself (positive form)[2]
2. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (negative/prohibitive form, also called the Silver Rule)

The Golden Rule is arguably the most essential basis for the modern concept of human rights, in which each individual has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others……and link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule)!"

These sayings are taught in every religion and they are the basic concepts within Common Law. Even another question arises - what about respect for the law? And who are the Common law countries?
**
By definition: **

…

There is only one being that teaches perfect morality and we have that lesson in the Holy Bible.

The allah of the Quran teaches little morality. FYI - the words in ( ) were added later-not the words of Mohammad.

4:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

I read some where that the attributes of allah are listed in the Quran so muslims can follow allah’s moral example. Problem here they are just words/names and do not define what a person muct do to hold that attribute.

Example allah is compassionate:

The Compassionate, The Beneficient, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers and the blasphemers in this world and especially for the believers in the hereafter.

This does not sound like the Golden Rule to me:
The Quran:
48.29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and **those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. **Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Another attribute: The Subduer, The Dominant, The One who has the perfect Power and is not unable over anything.

This is muslim morality -Subdue, Dominant, perfect Power!
9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

How about this for a great attribute?: The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem

 

[Rich494]

The Quran claims God has no son. In Surah named "Maryam 19-88-93 it is written "and to say that the ALL-merciful has taken unto Him a son. You have indeed advanced something hideous.

So if Allah has no son he can not be Jehovah.

 

[MorningSong51]

This indeed is the problem - people not needing God’s judgement on an issue but rather ***reasoning for themselves ***

how He should be dealing with the matter about who is on His side and who is not? Crazy.

gerhardc;

and pardon me for saying this - there is such a word that is called Constitutional law and as I’m sure you’ve heard of Tort laws as well as Law and commerce those areas that govern outside the scope of religion - that being, as it shapes politics, economics and society in numerous ways and serves as a social mediator of relations between people/peoples or even within international laws - treaties that delegate national jurisdiction to supranational tribunals such as the European Court of Human Rights or the International Criminal Court. Now in each religious denomination whether they are Christian, Muslim or Jewish, all people do understands that there is “no” particular religious group who will govern over all aspect of each and every religion perfectly and has a set of principles that touches on every aspect of human life- with respect all due respect. If you notice our judicial system and the overburden of it - each religion has issues that are being addressed (especially) in family law - within certain states according toward their religious affiliations.

With this being said - religious laws, and the implication of the word of God cannot be amended or legislated against by judges or governments - that being, dietary laws and how can certain religions practice them outside of the home (at least,ended up in our jurisdiction - as a respect to both religions under this heading “respect for religious rights”) - and then prayer times, how can each person respect the need for those persons (when required) to set up a place within the work environment for a private place for all three religions (again, respect for religious tolerance and under the heading of respect of religious “rights” - so can we have make that determination of what religion worships the same God - in the area - likeness, we also know that there are Shabbat laws as well as Passover as some families commence making preparations for those high holidays- some within each religion (depending) require strict adherence to the laws. We (as Christians) had at one time rested on Sunday’s to spend time worshiping God and enjoying the leisure time with our families - those requirements, and obligations, I wish would return back. Also, from what I understood - if we did have to work, we need a special dispensation, In the canon law of the Roman Catholic Church, a dispensation is the suspension by competent authority of general rules of law in particular cases. Its object is to modify the hardship often arising from the rigorous application of general laws to particular cases, and its essence is to preserve the law by suspending its operation in such cases.

So now and with all due respect for personhood and the laws that govern each religious affiliation - it is under the title “Love thy neighbor as yourself” - it is a law and one that hinges on the prophets. Now if the Government can not delegate or amend what is the word of God - and those that I’ve listed - religiously speaking, then how can anyone dictate/ or interpret which religion worships the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - in order, for us to make that determination, it would have to be based on our interpretation - alone. Still respectively! Yes, I believe - that there are no laws that govern all aspects - religious and governmental issues at the same time, some laws that are outside the scope of the government and those within religion.

Now you say, how does this fit in with the title to this thread “Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?” - and Love thy neighbor as yourself -

Do you want to say you need it even clearer than that? Why the willed ignorance?

 

[MorningSong51]

There is only one being that teaches perfect morality and we have that lesson in the Holy Bible.

The allah of the Quran teaches little morality. FYI - the words in ( ) were added later-not the words of Mohammad.

4:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

I read some where that the attributes of allah are listed in the Quran so muslims can follow allah’s moral example. Problem here they are just words/names and do not define what a person muct do to hold that attribute.

Example allah is compassionate:

The Compassionate, The Beneficient, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers and the blasphemers in this world and especially for the believers in the hereafter.

This does not sound like the Golden Rule to me:
The Quran:
48.29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and **those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. **Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Another attribute: The Subduer, The Dominant, The One who has the perfect Power and is not unable over anything.

This is muslim morality -Subdue, Dominant, perfect Power!
9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

How about this for a great attribute?: The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem

I’m understanding your post completely - but now do you understand what it must have been like for Jewish and Christians (and I want to say Orthodox - perhaps Catholics) to live underneath Islamic law? - and in some places they still do. All based on “love thy neighbor as yourself” - so what is love in this case and who is thy neighbor - and what do you consider “yourself” - the command is based upon whatever freedoms that you are entitled to under the law of the land…give the stranger the same freedoms as yourself - and is based on Exodus 22:21 “Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.” - In Psalms 119, it is expressed "I am a stranger in the earth - A wayfaring man; a pilgrim; a so-journer; a man whose permanent home is not in this world. The word is applicable to one who belongs to another country, and who is now merely passing through a foreign land, or sojourning there for a time. Compare the notes at Hebrews 11:13. The home of the child of God is heaven. Here he is in a strange - a foreign - land. He is to abide here but for a little time, and then to pass on to his eternal habitation.

 

[MorningSong51]

Not being disrespectful to the thread maker of this post - but it should read "Do Christian worship God in the same way as Muslim? - and the answer then would be “No” but again, the Muslims do not believe in the trinity of God - God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However, and quoting from this article:

The Jews of Arabia
Condensed from a recent lecture at the Montefiore Hall, London
by Lucien Gubbay - dangoor.com/71page33.html

The Qur’an like the Torah, is the unchanging word of God; and every letter of its text is holy. Sunni Muslims go even further and believe that the Qur’an is eternal and untreated - as is the view of the Torah held by some Jewish mystics.Muslim forms of worship are far closer to those of the Synagogue than the Church. Neither Islam nor Judaism employs priests with supernatural powers to serve at symbolic alters of sacrifice. Indeed, Jewish Rabbis and Sunni Alem receive similar training and perform much the same function. Other concepts such as the sanctity of Jerusalem, forbidden and permitted foods, and many others, appear to have come directly from Judaism.

The equivalent position of law in Islam and Judaism may not be a coincidence, for Islamic law first developed in Iraq, home to the great academies of Jewish learning. In both faiths, holy law governs every aspect of human activity and its very study is an act of worship. Both distinguish between ‘written’ and ‘oral’ law in much the same way; and in the development of ‘oral’ law, the mufti’s fatwa serves the same purpose as the Rabbi’s responsa (an authoritative statement of the law on an obscure or disputed point). Another common feature of the two systems is that neither was imposed by the state or by a central ecclesiastical authority - as was the canon law of the Church - but was developed by the deliberations of independent scholars."

Spend some time noticing the break down of the laws in the Halakhah - almost similar to our own laws in the U.S - you should spend the time on business and ethics, dietary, purification laws, those laws that deal with specifically during wartime and those that deal with the law of the land - there 613 laws but umpteen number of interpretations - that would take someone a life time to read. There are some similarities that would shock you on how each religion - specially states “the path to walk” - literally.

 

[MorningSong51]

I took a journey outside my own faith - as I needed too. However, I came back to my faith, more spiritually with an understanding of my own community and things that were around me - even in the church. I grew to love my own religion - I could then better understand our own position as Catholics. I wanted to remember what it was like when I grew up, as some things had changed in me and I needed to cleanse it all out of me and return with a better heart/soul. All kidding aside- you have to have a great respect for God and for the community of the people, after reading up on our own canon laws as well as Halakhah - I had to see this from another peoples perspective. I know how difficult it can be to read through the Qur’an and take in some (sometimes all) of the messages - but each nation was given the right of the law of the land (to establish themselves as a nation) even though I don’t agree with some, they will have their own set of laws and ways to better interpret them and understand the affects as within each generation, by their own and those around them - As mother Teresa said "“There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people.”

"Qiyas or analogical deduction is the fourth source of Sharia for the Sunni jurisprudence. Shiites do not accept qiyas, but replace it with reason (aql). Qiyas is the process of legal deduction according to which the jurist, confronted with an unprecedented case, bases his or her argument on the logic used in the Qur’an and Sunnah. Qiyas must not be based on arbitrary judgment, but rather be firmly rooted in the primary sources.[20]

Supporters of qiyas will often point to passages in the Qur’an that describe an application of a similar process by past Islamic communities. According to Hadith, Muhammad said: “Where there is no revealed injunction, I will judge amongst you according to reason.”[21] Further, he extended the right to reason to others. Finally, qiyas is sanctioned by the ijma, or consensus, amongst Muhammad’s companions.[20] The success and expansion of Islam brought it into contact with different cultures, societies and traditions, such as those of Byzantines and Persians. With such contact, new problems emerged for Islamic law to tackle. Moreover, there was a significant distance between Medina, the Islamic capital, and the Muslims on the periphery on the Islamic state. Thus far off jurists had to find novel Islamic solutions without the close supervision of the hub of Islamic law (back in Medina). During the Umayyad dynasty, the concept of qiyas was abused by the rulers. The Abbasids, who succeeded the Ummayads defined it more strictly, in an attempt to apply it more consistently"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_Islamic_law

" Daim al-Islam is a book on the rulings of Islam followed by Ismaili Muslims who adhere to the Shi’a Ismaili Fatimid fiqh. It describes manners and etiquette, including Ibadat in the light of guidance provided by the Ismaili Imams. The book emphasizes what importance Islam has given to manners and etiquette along with the worship of God, citing the traditions of the first four Imams of the Shi’a Ismaili Fatimid school of thought.

Also reading from the same source: under Reform/Arguments for and against reform:

Early shariah had a much more flexible character, and some modern Muslim scholars believe that it should be renewed, and that the classical jurists should lose special status. This would require formulating a new fiqh suitable for the modern world, e.g. as proposed by advocates of the Islamization of knowledge, which would deal with the modern context. This modernization is opposed by most conservative ulema. Traditional scholars hold that the laws are contextual and consider circumstance such as time, place and culture, the principles they are based upon are universal such as justice, equality and respect. Many Muslim scholars argue that even though technology may have advanced, the fundamentals of human life have not and is in the scope of current laws.

There are Muslims - that I know, who are good friends that I would never hurt in this lifetime, I respect them and also care for them a great deal but unfortunately I can not (for the life of me) read all the way through the Qur’an. It is not an easy book to read through - although I know somewhat a minimal amount to discuss it - but not at great length.

Mary

 

[MorningSong51]

MorningSong51;8422844:

Pope Benedict nowhere says that Christians and Muslims worship the **same **

God.

lol… come on!

 

[Belly]

Of course the muslim worship the same God, in fact, all the religion worship the same God too. What make the religion difference from each other is the way they worship the One and Only God.

 

[rain_bow]

I think each religion have some or lots of pagan’s origins and you might be right about your post but the dominant or the known part and belief in Islam is that Allah is the Abrahamic God , the god with old testament prophets and stories including Jesus from the NT as messiah and mohamed as last prophet. This is what muslims believe whether there is pagan origins or not, this is not the case.

Hey buddy,what if I preach a new religion and many peoples follow me?And if i proclaim that I am the prophet of Abrahamic God, would you believe me?.Well although I do not have any interest to preach a religion as a prophet, but if anyone preach himself as a prophet of Abrahamic God and lots of peoples follow him,that really does not mean that it is true. .

 

[rain_bow]

THE catechism (no matter what you think) states that GOd does have a plan of salvation for the Muslims .

Very well, if Christian God has this plan, I have no problem

They worship the Father in the trinity whether they know it or not .
There are three divine persons in the trinity (Matt 28:19) They worship the first divine person as the Jews do . **GOd the father is who they worship **.

No they don’t. Because Islam does not teach the fatherhood of God, and it is the unforgivable sin in Islam.Its called Shirk (no matter what you think),So how can you say that they worship God the father?

They believe that the Torah and the Gospels are corrupt yes and also believe that the Quran is the perfection and last revelation. Either the Devil came to Muhammad or he made it up .

Whatever.

The Quran is false and everyone in their right mind that has read it knows it .

I also believe that Koran is false and full of errors and inhumane verses. But OT is also the Same. So How can you prove that Bible is right if Quran is false?

Still does not change the fact that they worship the same part of God as the Jews do. .

Oh really? so if Quran is false then still they worship the same God as Jews do? You saw the inconsistency? If Quran did not came from God then how is it possible that the followers of Koran worship the same part of God, as Jews do?Sounds like they follow God himself but they obey the teaching of devil?

Hopefully this was not too deep for you

This is meaningless for me,thanks you got me partly

 

[rain_bow]

Muslims claim that allah gave them the koran to clarify previous scriptures because man corrupted the Jewish & Christian books.



We can talk/debate about this until we turn blue…

Well Pam, its a puzzle that if God is the supreme being then how can men corrupt his books? I asked it to Muslims ( who are my friends and family), they just answered that Allah knows it better.

 

[GaryTaylor]

no problem

Afternoon, so let me ask you respectfully. What do believe happens? No God just dust to dust, no Soul?

Peace

 

[rain_bow]

even to Muslims He is the word of God and so so greater than Mohammed so why not - twinc

Hey do you really have any idea about Islam? who said that Jesus or Isa is the word of God and so so greater than mohammed? I have heard such thing for the 1st time in my life.

Jesus is nothing but a prophet from Allah, according to Islam, and even he had no power to give laws like Moses or Mohammad had. Hey do you not think that Jesus is a 2nd class prophet of God according to Islamic teaching?

Or are you trying to preach a new version of Islam? if yes then try it and accept the fate of Ahmadias ( they are always tortured by mainstream Muslims,but you are trying the worse,because proclaiming Jesus as the Word of God is the biggest sin in Islam).

And another thing, do you know that The Koran teaches that Mary is the Wife of God and also a part of trinity?

 

[rain_bow]

I don’t believe muslims think that Jesus whom they call Isa was greater than Mohamad…

He was just a mere human prophet who performed miracles and preached the word of God

To muslims, Mohamad is higher that Isa.

Exactly, Islam teaches it.

 

[rain_bow]

Mohammad confirms that Christ was a prophet but minimizes him to the level of moses .

Not really. Jesus is worse than Moses in Islam. because Moses had this power to give laws,but Jesus had no power to give laws.this is what Islam teaches.

 

[jakasaki]

Well Pam, its a puzzle that if God is the supreme being then how can men corrupt his books? I asked it to Muslims ( who are my friends and family), they just answered that Allah knows it better.

Yeah… : I’ve heard that line before…

… and allah knows best…

You know that the koran states that allah has protected the koran from corruption…

This begs the question:

According to the koran, allah has a koran with him in the heavens… Makes you wonder that if Uthmans koran is the same as allah’s…

They are not suppose to question the koran
They are not suppose to question mohamad
They are not suppose to question islam

Nice to see you back here Rain_Bow…

 

[rain_bow]

Afternoon, so let me ask you respectfully. What do believe happens? No God just dust to dust, no Soul?

Peace

Morning . So let me explain myself respectfully. With due respect to you religion, I want to say that,I do not know and do not want to know. I know that I was born in 7th April, 1985 and i will die when my time will come, so I want to enjoy life. I have no headache what will happen after my death.

 

[rain_bow]

Yeah… : I’ve heard that line before…

… and allah knows best…

hahahaha

You know that the koran states that allah has protected the koran from corruption…

yes As Koran states that it’s a book that has no doubt . how funny. Why Koran has no doubts? because Koran says so , lol

This begs the question:

According to the koran, allah has a koran with him in the heavens… Makes you wonder that if Uthmans koran is the same as allah’s…

Its really a puzzle because if Allah is the protector of Koran, then why Uthman needed to burn the so called forged copy of Koran!!

They are not suppose to question the koran
They are not suppose to question mohamad
They are not suppose to question islam

Because if they will ask question about Koran then they will find that,it is not a book from God and it’s writing style is very weak and lower class, and anyone can write such thing if he/she has little brain

Nice to see you back here Rain_Bow…

Thanks Pam for your greeting:hug1:. Actually I am too busy that I do not use internet stuff often. But I came here to communicate with peoples, so for sure i will stay here and participate whenever I can manage some free times .

 

[jakasaki]

hahahaha

yes As Koran states that it’s a book that has no doubt . how funny. Why Koran has no doubts? because Koran says so , lol

Its really a puzzle because if Allah is the protector of Koran, then why Uthman needed to burn the so called forged copy of Koran!!

Because if they will ask question about Koran then they will find that,it is not a book from God and it’s writing style is very weak and lower class, and anyone can write such thing if he/she has little brain

Thanks Pam for your greeting:hug1:.** Actually I am too busy **that I do not use internet stuff often. But I came here to communicate with peoples, so for sure i will stay here and will participate here whenever I can manage some free times .

There’s an old American saying… it goes like this…

…" a busy bee is a happy bee…"

It’s good to be busy…

Now… back to Uthmam… yes he did burn all of the early copies of the koran - makes you go… hmmmmm… I wonder why he did that…

 

[rain_bow]

That is not true!

That’s true.