Do computer sites that discuss holy things like CAF distract from witnessing Christ or do they help?

[MarysLurker]

What did these people think would happen? What am I missing with these people?

Oy vey… I remember those Wild West days. Just as today, you’d have the Anti-Catholic of the Week™ come in and make the usual Mary-worship accusations, but with less charity than now. Eventually they’d cross a line and get banned. Maybe in a way, that put evolutionary selection pressure on them so that the ACOTWs CAF gets now tend to be a bit more charitable but just as stubborn. But there would also be fights between Catholics, over liturgy and bishops and private revelation and all kinds of inside baseball. Sometimes they would get pretty vicious. Moderators would give warnings which were frequently ignored, sometimes deliberately and sometimes because the old vBulletin platform showed only 10 posts at a time and the mod warning got lost in the shuffle. The mods had no way to know which, and often had to shoot from the hip lest more damage be done (sometimes leading to public discussion of mod action against the rules, which was an even bigger mess). Add to that a daily megadose of SPAM which vBulletin couldn’t automatically handle, and you can see that the mods and staff had to work really hard to keep the ship afloat. CAF is much better now with Discourse, its spam-blocking algorithms and heuristics, the user-driven flagging system, and the better tools the mods have, like I said above.

No matter what forum or site it is, there is something about the anonymity of the Internet that just brings out the worst in people. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Consolation of Philosophy, St. Boethius explained that bad fortune serves a very important function. Disaster tells you the truth about people. When the pedal hits the metal, you get to see who your real friends are, and what people actually believe.

This English language that you’re reading was spread by the British Empire, which was from its inception fueled ideologically by anti-Catholicism. CAF basically served as an Ecto Containment Unit to capture the ghosts of anti-Catholicism in Anglophone (English speaking) culture. CAF’s history proves how many of these ghosts there are, and tells you just how deep the prejudice runs. And as the culture secularizes, we are losing more and more commonality not just with Protestants but with everyone. But the truth is… the commonality was never there. With the cultural veneer stripped, we see things as they really are.

The people who are falling away from Christianity never had their hearts in it to begin with.. Jesus meant what He said about the narrow way that few find. Even if CAF isn’t as well frequented in the past, it’s a strong driver of search engine traffic to CA, and it gets a voice out there that otherwise wouldn’t be there.

 

[OSN]

Jack63, I find such sites as CAF, at least in the discussion forms, to only be a giant distraction and time killer.

CAFs main page does offer good resources for those who are looking for such information, but for me, actual practicing of the faith isn’t done on an internet forum. Nothing to me can be accomplished by pointless garbage debates online, on top of that, it isn’t like the Papacy is sitting around online, and visiting this forum or any other forum and taking any actual notice of what is being said, let alone would actually care.

The Vatican takes notice from the far right of the Catholic Church that is organized enough to cause public discourse or get media attention, at that point the papacy tries to reign them in with appeasement meetings that go no where but leave the groups feeling like they were at least heard.

It took the vatican how long to address the homosexual sex abuse by clergy ? An what came of it ? Barely anything significant , instead of a declaration to report any criminal activity to the proper authorities in ones local jurisdiction , we have some vague promise that things will be reported to a Bishop who then in turn is supposed to do something.

Though at least the internet allows in part a free discussion of religion in general, CAF and other catholic websites or any religious forum have the right to strong arm discussions through moderation and ban anyone they don’t like from speaking with vague/rules that open to endless interpretation or perhaps they just shut people down they find offensive. who knows.

If one wants a real dialogue it is better to do so face to face or in a public platform where it is as bare bones as it gets. Even then in the political realm though, some city councils will pull shinanigans to constituents who are alloted time to speak their peace, and when they dont like what the person is saying, they declare the person has run out of time when they havent and then you see security or police escorting them out and or away from the microphone.

If anything Pope Francis has given more validity and credibility to CAF and other forums by declaring them distractions. But good luck to him if he thinks he is going to gain any traction trying to silence public debate. Like the thinks he can dictate to America our policies on who we let into our country and why.

 

[MarysLurker]

CAF and other catholic websites or any religious forum have the right to strong arm discussions through moderation and ban anyone they don’t like from speaking with vague/rules that open to endless interpretation or perhaps they just shut people down they find offensive. who knows.

On Discourse forums like this one, the court of first instance is the membership, not the staff. Moderation is event driven, not moderator-driven, and the main event that will make a mod aware of a potential rule breach is flagging of the breach by users. (Other events that could trigger mod review would be spam filters and questionable links, etc.).

Look at the Discourse Moderator Guide and you can see how it actually works. It’s very transparent. Among other things, the trust levels of the users are used to weigh whether mod action is warranted. “Regular” users have semi-moderator powers (earned by participation) and “normal” users like me have more weight than new users. Mods basically only have to do something when there is a problem the system and members can’t fully handle.

 

[jack63]

I don’t agree with everything you’ve said, but I genuinely appreciate the response.

If anything Pope Francis has given more validity and credibility to CAF and other forums by declaring them distractions

I really like Pope Francis. I do actually agree with this though. I wonder why Pope Francis would point out computer sites like this as a distraction when, in reality, the traffic on them isn’t really that high.

 

[MarysLurker]

Pope Francis would point out computer sites like this as a distraction when, in reality, the traffic on them isn’t really that high.

I think the Holy Father was talking more about how social media has become a distraction from real life. In the Catholic context that would include how impersonal discussion tends to focus more on how things “ought” to be than the lived reality of the Faith.

 

[MarysLurker]

Even if CAF isn’t as well frequented in the past, it’s a strong driver of search engine traffic to CA, and it gets a voice out there that otherwise wouldn’t be there.

But I just don’t have the time to be an active participant. I think everything has just gotten too divisive. This has nothing to do with CAF, it’s just the culture.

So I’m leaving at least for now.

I would urge anyone concerned reading this to do the following:

1. Read “Strangers in a Strange Land”by Archbishop Chaput. He is right that the time for a “Catholic moment” or winning our culture back through debate is long over. It will bring you peace and tell you what to do to really make a difference.
2. Support the Catholic Answers School of Apologetics, by spreading the word and financially if you can. That’s the future. This place is, for the most part, the past.
3. Consider the points I tried to make here: Is it time to close the Ark? (Depravity is why we can’t evangelize, so let’s focus on seekers with beauty, encounter and family)
4. Take the time you saved by not debating with walls and use it to pray the Rosary and love your family.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m posting on here while in my pajamas and popping in and out of doing housework. There wasn’t going to be any witnessing going on today anyway.

 

[MarysLurker]

I’m posting on here while in my pajamas and popping in and out of doing housework. There wasn’t going to be any witnessing going on today anyway.

The value of your everyday life with your family is much more than debating with people who don’t want to listen.

 

[DarkLight]

The value of your everyday life with your family is much more than debating with people who don’t want to listen.

It’s me and a cat here and the cat’s napping.

Sometimes mundane life has to happen. In this case mundane life requires clearing out a ton of papers and making sure all the bills are paid, cooking food for this week, and so forth. It’s part of being human, we can’t be “on” all the time.

 

[MarysLurker]

I was tempted to quit, but once again convinced to come back by continued interest in a topic I had started. I found a better solution than to quit completely.

There is a way to be rid of all the debate and still enjoy CAF for its fellowship and spiritual value. There is a preference to mute categories. It’s as if they don’t exist. To be rid of all of the Apologetics forums, put all their categories on the mute list in preferences — categories in the account menu. See picture below.

IF there are particular topics on those forums that still interest you, you can bookmark them from the … menu on the first post, and they will show up as bookmarks even if their parent forum is muted.

CAF is a very different place without atheists, Protestants, and liberal/fundamentalist Catholics being uncharitable and asking the same questions over and over. Hopefully anyone reading this with those concerns will find CAF more than worth sticking around on with this fix.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[ZMystiCat]

There is a way to be rid of all the debate and still enjoy CAF for its fellowship and spiritual value. There is a preference to mute categories.

I’ve already had to do this for both of the News forums.

And fundamentally, I don’t even mind debate. I just don’t like how debates often end up here. I think a lot of problems (especially in News) could be addressed by stricter enforcement of Conduct Rules 3 & 4:

1. Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
2. Do not incite animosity towards anyone, especially the clergy.

But that won’t really address issues like low-value posts, canned responses, and dogpiling. I always feel a bit sorry for Protestants or atheists who come here with honest questions. Then again, I don’t know of a better forum for asking such questions.

Edit: And I’m pretty sure I’ve contributed to the same problems in the past. I’m trying to get better, though.

 

[jack63]

I was tempted to quit, but once again convinced to come back by continued interest in a topic I had started. I found a better solution than to quit completely.

Thought you’d stay…

 

[jack63]

And fundamentally, I don’t even mind debate. I just don’t like how debates often end up here. I think a lot of problems (especially in News) could be addressed by stricter enforcement of Conduct Rules 3 & 4:

1. Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
2. Do not incite animosity towards anyone, especially the clergy.

I certainly agree with this. People complain about the flagging system, when sometimes I think stricter enforcement of certain things like rules 3 & 4 could help a lot. At the same time posts get “greyed out”, and I click on them to see what was said. Sometimes I can’t for the life of me figure out was said that was wrong or inappropriate.

Sometimes the comments on the news forum are bananas.

 

[MarysLurker]

I think stricter enforcement of certain things like rules 3 & 4 could help a lot. At the same time posts get “greyed out”, and I click on them to see what was said. Sometimes I can’t for the life of me figure out was said that was wrong or inappropriate.

The only downside I could see is that the flaggers/mods could be criticized for shooting from the hip. The person above who was saying CAF was heavy-handed might be vindicated if the policy is too strict.

If you want to try more strictly enforcing the rules, it’s up to you since this is Discourse. Flag ‘em and cite the rule as the reason why. But I might try to replicate the old policy from vBulletin CAF where the mods would temporarily suspend and privately counsel members, getting their understanding and then removing the suspension, before taking further action. Post or PM the bad person first and tell them what they’re doing wrong. If they keep doing it, then flag away.

 

[MarysLurker]

Further to the above, if you mute a forum category and bookmark topics you want to keep, the bookmarked topics will show up throughout the site even though the parent forum is muted.

 

[MarysLurker]

But I just don’t have the time to be an active participant. I think everything has just gotten too divisive. This has nothing to do with CAF, it’s just the culture.

Even hiding the Apologetics forum couldn’t protect me from the nastiness. So… that’s it for me. I’m losing my peace to trolls and agenda-pushers. Participating here is just making me insecure. My family needs me off this iPhone and present with them. It’s just not worth it. I need a break, at least. Thanks for your support and for hearing me out.

Just for the record, I stand by my recommendations in the post above.. I strongly endorse efforts like the CA School of Apologetics which will help to form the next generation of faithful Catholics. Generational change through rebuilding of a faithful minority strengthened by migration amidst the collapse of the host culture is not the solution anyone wants to see but I’m done trying to fight it. I accept the judgements of Benedict XVI, Francis, Abp. Chaput and others that we must face this and accept our mission of being present to our families and immigrant neighbors. That will save our Church. Fighting and debating with our peers will not.

 

[jack63]

It is pretty hard to change people’s hearts here. Maybe you can slowly change people’s hearts, but that is the best you can hope for. Hopefully, people can learn something here that can help them better witness Christ in real life. Perhaps that is the more realistic expectation.