Do Computers Make Citing a Quote's Location in the Bible Meaningless?

[Danny_OC]

I suppose the reason the practice of saying where in the bible a quote is found along with the quote itself is so that those listening to you can verify it for themselves by looking it up. But is this necessary anymore when part of the quote itself can simply be typed into a computer to check for its validity?

Or am I missing another reason for citing the location with the quote? On one hand it seems kind of like an ego booster for some to shoot out the precise location of the quote after saying it; on the other hand, maybe its an acceptable means to bolster credibility.

I ask this because I do hope to become acquainted more closely with scripture this summer; but I don’t know if its worth the additional effort to have memorized the location of each specific quote i plan to use for apologetic conversation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I suppose the reason the practice of saying where in the bible a quote is found along with the quote itself is so that those listening to you can verify it for themselves by looking it up. But is this necessary anymore when part of the quote itself can simply be typed into a computer to check for its validity?

Or am I missing another reason for citing the location with the quote? On one hand it seems kind of like an ego booster for some to shoot out the precise location of the quote after saying it; on the other hand, maybe its an acceptable means to bolster credibility.

I ask this because I do hope to become acquainted more closely with scripture this summer; but I don’t know if its worth the additional effort to have memorized the location of each specific quote i plan to use for apologetic conversation.

The Computer is just like any other tool. It does not replace the Bible. It may make research easier. But nothing replaces looking up the quote in the Douay, the Latin Vulgate, and reading the foot notes in the Haydock.

 

[Danny_OC]

I don’t mean to imply it does. My question just pertains to the reason one would go so far as to not only quote the bible in conversation, but also take the time to state the quotes specific location within it.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t mean to imply it does. My question just pertains to the reason one would go so far as to not only quote the bible in conversation, but also take the time to state the quotes specific location within it.

For one thing quotes are phrased differently in different translations of the Bible - if you’re referring to a translation that is not currently online it may not be obtainable if you put the whole quote in as given.

Besides which, a reference shows that the quoter has bothered to look it up - saves the reader the trouble of having to check its authenticity at all(presuming you trust the quoter, of course!)

 

[COPLAND_3]

Danny OC

I know exactly what you are saying. In fact, I would rather have serious dialogue over email or forums than to try to prove my point by word of mouth. It actually hit me a few months ago when I heard two fellows in a heated debate over theoology at a video store, and I over heard much of what they were saying, and one guy knew just enough to be dangerous. He was getting so many complex things mixed up, but the poor guy he was talking to did not know any better and could not offer any sanity to it. I felt like setting the record straight but I knew that it would have just been my word against his. But on the computer I can find my quotes and add on all the little citation references to back up my case and go from there, and I can prove the others mistake much more clearly when I can show in plain view that they have either misquoted or got their facts messed up.

But it is still very beneficial to memorize as much Scripture as you can. You will never regret it. But only if it is for the right reasons, not to look good to impress anybody for the sake of looking like a scholar, but it does allow you to help clarify your Faith to those who may ask.

 

[Strategery]

I say it definitely helps, for several reasons:

• You’re not always going to have a computer with you, but you can nearly always have a bible with you.
• Different translations have different language, as stated above.
• If you’re looking to gain more familiarity with Scripture, knowing the “address” helps you with understanding the structure of the bible.
• For me personally, if I’m memorizing a verse I always want to know the address with it. It allows me to easily refer to the context of the verse itself, and after a while it gives a mental cross reference when you have multiple passages addressing the same idea.
• It helps quite a bit when discussing Scripture with others.

 

[JimG]

Citing scripture passages by chapter and verse number is in a way, every bit as artificial as using a computer to locate them, since chapter and verse numbers were a later addition to scriptures for the sake of convenience–the very reason that we use Internet searches now.

Jesus often quoted from the OT. He didn’t cite chapter and verse numbers because there were none. He hearers were familiar enough with the OT scriptures that hearing part of a passage quoted would bring to mind the whole passage.

 

[Strategery]

Citing scripture passages by chapter and verse number is in a way, every bit as artificial as using a computer to locate them, since chapter and verse numbers were a later addition to scriptures for the sake of convenience–the very reason that we use Internet searches now.

Jesus often quoted from the OT. He didn’t cite chapter and verse numbers because there were none. He hearers were familiar enough with the OT scriptures that hearing part of a passage quoted would bring to mind the whole passage.

No doubt that they didn’t have the references.

I don’t agree that the hearers were familiar enough with the OT scriptures to have a quote bring to mind the whole passage. I think that’s true for a subset (ie, the scribes, Pharises, high priests, etc) but probably not for the remainder of those of the day.

I personally find it pretty useful.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Citing scripture passages by chapter and verse number is in a way, every bit as artificial as using a computer to locate them, since chapter and verse numbers were a later addition to scriptures for the sake of convenience–the very reason that we use Internet searches now.

Jesus often quoted from the OT. He didn’t cite chapter and verse numbers because there were none. He hearers were familiar enough with the OT scriptures that hearing part of a passage quoted would bring to mind the whole passage.

The main idea, as you mentioned is convenience. Today several Bibles are beginning to rearrange the chapter and verses and in effect creating a tower of babel, where a quote from one bible is not easily found in another bible.

In ancient times, there was basically only one scripture text (although there were translations even then), but the point is, there were not heretical sects justifying their doctrines with their own special translation, as we have today.

So today, with the explosion of various biblical translations and sects, it becomes more important than ever to have some universal “addressing” system to compare biblical quotes. Unfortunately, the times have also sacrificed the common chapter and verse numbering, on the altar of scholastic pedantry.

 

[Nita]

I suppose the reason the practice of saying where in the bible a quote is found along with the quote itself is so that those listening to you can verify it for themselves by looking it up. But is this necessary anymore when part of the quote itself can simply be typed into a computer to check for its validity?

Or am I missing another reason for citing the location with the quote? On one hand it seems kind of like an ego booster for some to shoot out the precise location of the quote after saying it; on the other hand, maybe its an acceptable means to bolster credibility.

I ask this because I do hope to become acquainted more closely with scripture this summer; but I don’t know if its worth the additional effort to have memorized the location of each specific quote i plan to use for apologetic conversation.

For me, it depends on the circumstances.

1. In a conversation with someone, I don’t like it when they include the book, chapter and verse when citing Scripture. (It’s highly unlikely I’d remember it later anyway.) If for some reason I want that information, I will ask.
2. In written discussions (eg. this forum), I definitely like it when the book, chapter and verse is given with the Scripture quote. Something else I’ve discovered is that when referencing a Scripture passage, I appreciate it when the text of the Scripture verse is typed out - rather than giving just the book, chapter, verse. Too easy to not bother looking it up.

Nita

 

[jblake]

Strategery;:

I don’t agree that the hearers were familiar enough with the OT scriptures to have a quote bring to mind the whole passage. I think that’s true for a subset (ie, the scribes, Pharises, high priests, etc) but probably not for the remainder of those of the day.

Cultures in which oral histories and traditions are revered, have a far higher “remembrance rate”, than cultures that don’t revere oral traditions and histories.

The odds are that the average individual then knew the Tanakh better than the the average theologian todays knows the Tanakh.

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

I suppose the reason the practice of saying where in the bible a quote is found along with the quote itself is so that those listening to you can verify it for themselves by looking it up. But is this necessary anymore when part of the quote itself can simply be typed into a computer to check for its validity?

Probably more required than ever before.

a) The number of translations has greatly increased the chances that the wording you cite, are not the same as the wording in the individual’s preferred translation;

b) With computers, “prooftexting” has become all to common with those who do not tale the verse in context;

but I don’t know if its worth the additional effort to have memorized the location of each specific quote i plan to use for apologetic conversation.

If you don’t know the book, chapter, and verse of what you quoting, it will be easy to make mincemeat out of what you say. Especially when somebody says:says: “Look at that verse in context”, and quotes a completely different book, chapter, and verse, than you are citing. With the plethora of translations, and the number of parallel passages in the Bible, this is very easy to do.

xan

jonathon