Do Eastern Catholics and Roman Catholics have the same liturgical calendar?

[lssanjose]

Yes let us live the Faith! And especially in the upcoming Year of Faith let us seek to more and more! vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20111011_porta-fidei_en.html --I can not wait! I look forward to the rich teachings of Pope Benedict XVI

As the early Christian Martyrs would say before their judges: I am a Christian!

It’s only when I went Eastward, I became cognizant of the liturgical year, itself. It’s a little different in the East, I suppose. Is the year about to start up fresh, for Latin Catholics? I know the East just began theirs Sept 1st, or so. I’m guessing, because Latin Catholics follow the same calendar, more or less, it’s this way, too? thanks.

Note from Moderator:

This discussion on the liturgical calendar was sufficiently off-topic to create a new thread from it. It also, sadly, did not maintain our expectations for charitable discussion in places, but I expect that will be amended as the conversation continues.

Please see here for the original discussion asking if one may receive Communion in the Eastern Catholic Churches with a serious sin on the soul.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Eastern Catholicism Moderator

 

[Bookcat]

It’s only when I went Eastward, I became cognizant of the liturgical year, itself. It’s a little different in the East, I suppose. Is the year about to start up fresh, for Latin Catholics? I know the East just began theirs Sept 1st, or so. I’m guessing, because Latin Catholics follow the same calendar, more or less, it’s this way, too? thanks.

We have different liturgical calendars. And I assume the different Eastern Churches can have ones differing from each other.

Some things are across the Catholic Church --others are particular to the Particular Churches.

So no…a new year is not begun yet on the Roman Calendar. It will be Ordinary Time for the later part of the year for some time yet.

 

[lssanjose]

We have different liturgical calendars. And I assume the different Eastern Churches can have ones differing from each other.

Some things are across the Catholic Church --others are particular to the Church.

Oh ok, even though we both use the Gregorian calendar? I can see how this make sense.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

It’s only when I went Eastward, I became cognizant of the liturgical year, itself. It’s a little different in the East, I suppose. Is the year about to start up fresh, for Latin Catholics? I know the East just began theirs Sept 1st, or so. I’m guessing, because Latin Catholics follow the same calendar, more or less, it’s this way, too? thanks.

The year 7521 by Byzantine reckoning, which began Sept 1.

 

[TrueLight]

It’s only when I went Eastward, I became cognizant of the liturgical year, itself. It’s a little different in the East, I suppose. Is the year about to start up fresh, for Latin Catholics? I know the East just began theirs Sept 1st, or so. I’m guessing, because Latin Catholics follow the same calendar, more or less, it’s this way, too? thanks.

I’m very aware of the liturgical year. The RC liturgical year starts with Advent, which this year falls on December 2nd. Although I am still learning, I would say that traditional Catholics tend to be very aware of the liturgical year.

The reasons I am always reminded of the liturgical year is:

• I pray the breviary
• I sing in the choir and we sing the appropriate masses as per the calendar and the Diurnale Romanum.

So whether one is aware of the liturgical year or not depends on how much you are interested in paying attention.

 

[lssanjose]

I’m very aware of the liturgical year. The RC liturgical year starts with Advent, which this year falls on December 2nd. Although I am still learning, I would say that traditional Catholics tend to be very aware of the liturgical year.

The reasons I am always reminded of the liturgical year is:

• I pray the breviary
• I sing in the choir and we sing the appropriate masses as per the calendar and the Diurnale Romanum.

So whether one is aware of the liturgical year or not depends on how much you are interested in paying attention.

Well, that’s well, and good. I just wanted to know if Latin Catholics celebrated the new year, the same time, Eastern Catholics do, that’s all. I didn’t mean to cause your defensiveness, if you felt slighted by my comment about cognizance of the liturgical year. For this, I apologize

I was brought up in the Post VII, so pardon my ignorance about the liturgical year when I was raised in the Latin rite, for as long as I was.

 

[TrueLight]

Well, that’s well, and good. I just wanted to know if Latin Catholics celebrated the new year, the same time, Eastern Catholics do, that’s all. I didn’t mean to cause your defensiveness, if you felt slighted by my comment about cognizance of the liturgical year. For this, I apologize

There is nothing to apologize for.

I was brought up in the Post VII, so pardon my ignorance about the liturgical year when I was raised in the Latin rite, for as long as I was.

Not sure what this means.

 

[lssanjose]

There is nothing to apologize for.

Not sure what this means.

It just means I was raised in the Latin rite in a way where I didn’t have the reverence around the liturgical, like you just explained to me. At least, growing up, There wasn’t an emphasis, corporately, on the importance of each day. I get that, since I moved over to Byzantine Catholicism.

Post VII = Vatican II.

 

[TrueLight]

It just means I was raised in the Latin rite in a way where I didn’t have the reverence around the liturgical, like you just explained to me. At least, growing up, There wasn’t an emphasis, corporately, on the importance of each day. I get that, since I moved over to Byzantine Catholicism.

Post VII = Vatican II.

Gotcha. I thought you were just saying that you were raised after Vatican II which a lot of us were, obviously.

 

[5Loaves]

We have different liturgical calendars. And I assume the different Eastern Churches can have ones differing from each other.

Some things are across the Catholic Church --others are particular to the Particular Churches.

So no…a new year is not begun yet on the Roman Calendar. It will be Ordinary Time for the later part of the year for some time yet.
lssanjose;9772607:

Oh ok,** even though we both use the Gregorian calendar?**

I can see how this make sense.

Some Eastern Catholic Churches are on the Gregorian Calendar. Some are on the Julian Calendar. Some are on the Revised Julian Calendar, including my parish.

 

[Stephentlig]

Blessed Nicholas Charnetsky Parish in Dublin is on Julian Calendar. Not because we wanted to be different but because its what works best for the local community who rely on public transport to get there as there is only one parish in Dublin. And during times such as Christmas on the gregorian the traffic can be heavy so Fr.Serge just remained with Julian.

We need to pray though that we all unite the date of Easter and have one date. Here is a petition for it actually: www.onedate.org

 

[ConstantineTG]

Blessed Nicholas Charnetsky Parish in Dublin is on Julian Calendar. Not because we wanted to be different but because its what works best for the local community who rely on public transport to get there as there is only one parish in Dublin. And during times such as Christmas on the gregorian the traffic can be heavy so Fr.Serge just remained with Julian.

We need to pray though that we all unite the date of Easter and have one date. Here is a petition for it actually: www.onedate.org

In a way I am actually not in favor of a Julian Pascha. I doubt the secular government will change the date for Good Friday and they will continue using the usual calculation. They will probably follow what the Anglican or other Protestant Churches use. It is a grandfathered holiday so they will follow the usual calculation and not adjust it just because the Catholic Church adjusted theirs.

It is just better to attend Church activities when you have the day off anyway

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Some Eastern Catholic Churches are on the Gregorian Calendar. Some are on the Julian Calendar. Some are on the Revised Julian Calendar, including my parish.

Exactly. The Gregorian vs. Julian distinction doesn’t identify a difference in liturgical calendars. Rather, it identifies the differing mathematical framework, the calendar substructure, over which the liturgical year is laid.

Two churches can have the same liturgical calendar yet one follows the Gregorian and the other the Julian: for instance, two Ukrainian Catholic parishes, one of which has chosen the Gregorian and one the Julian.

The clearest way I can explain the difference is with a particular illustration: Both, for instance, would separate the Nativity of the Theotokos on September 8.

But what day counts as “September 8” will be different in each of those two parishes. One will celebrate the Nativity of the Theotokos almost two weeks after the other…

Likewise, two churches can both be on, say, the Gregorian calendar, yet have entirely different liturgical calendars: My local Ruthenian Catholic parish is on the Gregorian, yet their liturgical calendar is quite different from my local Latin Church diocese’s calendar.

 

[SyroMalankara]

For Malankara and Syriac Churches, the new year begins with Qudhosh itho (Sanctification) Sunday - the Sunday that comes on of after October 30th is called Qudhosh itho (Sanctification of Church) Sunday.

The Malankara Syriac Churches (both Catholic and Orthodox) use the Gregorian Calendar.

The Syriac Churches in the Mideast vary between Julian and Gregorian.

 

[Aramis]

Definition reminder: Canon means “official list”

Each church Sui Iuris (all 23) maintains it’s own canon of holy days, feasts, commemorations. A few have more than one (Ethiopian and Roman Churches).

Then, there is the separate issue of which calendar is used for observing the liturgical calendar - Julian, Revised Julian, or Gregorian. Which also is up to each Church Sui Iuris, and a few use more than one. And most everyone uses the Gregorian in day to day life, so it can appear that the choice of calendar results in different canons of holy days in one given Church Sui Iuris.

Most of the Byzantine Rite Churches Sui Iuris have very similar canons of feasts and holy days. Only a handful differ. The Ruthenian and Ukrainian are almost, but not quite, identical, for example. All the big ones line up across the Byzantine Churches. Which calendar varies more widely - for example, The Ukrainians allow the parish to pick.

With different rites, different canons of feasts are the baseline. Some are universal… Nativity, Theophany, Easter/Pascha, Ascension, Epiphany, Nativity of Mary, Assumption/Dormition.

Note also: the Roman Church has at least 4 different canons of feasts and holy days…
The Modern Roman Calendar - for the 1970 and later missals.
The Trent Calendar - as modified up through 1962 by Rome - for the Traditional Latin Missal.
The Dominican Calendar - the Dominicans have much overlap, but some dates differ, and a few are commemorations that are not on the general Roman calendars.
The Anglican Calendar - the list of feasts is noted in the front of the Anglican Use missal.
I believe, but am not positive, that the Mozarabic, Bragan, and Ambrosian uses also have their own canons of feasts.

The Ethiopians have parishes using the Ethiopian and Eritrean liturgies, and I recall reading that the canon of feasts is different between them. Also, many Ethiopian Church priests also celebrate the Roman Rite…

 

[patrick457]

Definition reminder: Canon means “official list”

Each church Sui Iuris (all 23) maintains it’s own canon of holy days, feasts, commemorations. A few have more than one (Ethiopian and Roman Churches).

Then, there is the separate issue of which calendar is used for observing the liturgical calendar - Julian, Revised Julian, or Gregorian. Which also is up to each Church Sui Iuris, and a few use more than one. And most everyone uses the Gregorian in day to day life, so it can appear that the choice of calendar results in different canons of holy days in one given Church Sui Iuris.

Most of the Byzantine Rite Churches Sui Iuris have very similar canons of feasts and holy days. Only a handful differ. The Ruthenian and Ukrainian are almost, but not quite, identical, for example. All the big ones line up across the Byzantine Churches. Which calendar varies more widely - for example, The Ukrainians allow the parish to pick.

With different rites, different canons of feasts are the baseline. Some are universal… Nativity, Theophany, Easter/Pascha, Ascension, Epiphany, Nativity of Mary, Assumption/Dormition.

Note also: the Roman Church has at least 4 different canons of feasts and holy days…
The Modern Roman Calendar - for the 1970 and later missals.
The Trent Calendar - as modified up through 1962 by Rome - for the Traditional Latin Missal.
The Dominican Calendar - the Dominicans have much overlap, but some dates differ, and a few are commemorations that are not on the general Roman calendars.
The Anglican Calendar - the list of feasts is noted in the front of the Anglican Use missal.
I believe, but am not positive, that the Mozarabic, Bragan, and Ambrosian uses also have their own canons of feasts.

‘Rite’, you mean. They do -in the Mozarabic rite, the feast of the Incarnation (aka St. Mary of the O) falls on December 18, there are six Sundays of Advent (as in Milan), Lent begins on the first Sunday of Lent (Ash Wednesday was a Romanization that was also struck out).

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Lent begins on the first Sunday of Lent (Ash Wednesday was a Romanization that was also struck out).

Lent beginning on a Sunday? Monday, perhaps (as in Eastern Churches, technically at Sunday evening Vespers, which begins Monday the liturgical day)?

 

[patrick457]

Lent beginning on a Sunday? Monday, perhaps (as in Eastern Churches, technically at Sunday evening Vespers, which begins Monday the liturgical day)?

Monday, sorry. I stand corrected. The Mozarabic (post-revision) and Ambrosian liturgies begin Lent on the Monday after the 1st Sunday. AFAIK it was also the case in the (now-extinct) Gallican rites and perhaps also in the Celtic rites.

I’m just curious. Do the Eastern Churches rank feasts as in the Roman Rite?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Monday, sorry. I stand corrected.

No worries. It was an interesting observation nonetheless.

I’m just curious. Do the Eastern Churches rank feasts as in the Roman Rite?

At least in the Byzantine Rite Churches, there are nuances, slightly different terminology (we don’t generally refer to feasts as “solemnities”), and a ranking system that gets complicated to explain when in comes to ranking of classes of saints. But basically, we have the Great Feasts (Pascha and the other major feasts of the Church, which are always days of precept / holy days of obligation), Solemn Feasts which include other feasts of Our Lord, the Theotokos and major saints (e.g St. John the Baptist), and Simple Feasts which are for notable feasts and saints of particular significance in the particular tradition. Saints days are commemorated throughout the year. There has been a renaissance of late in restoring to prominence oher feast days that have held traditional significance (e.g. the Dormition of St. John the Apostles & Evangelist).

 

[patrick457]

No worries. It was an interesting observation nonetheless.

At least in the Byzantine Rite Churches, there are nuances, slightly different terminology (we don’t generally refer to feasts as “solemnities”), and a ranking system that gets complicated to explain when in comes to ranking of classes of saints. But basically, we have the Great Feasts (Pascha and the other major feasts of the Church, which are always days of precept / holy days of obligation), Solemn Feasts which include other feasts of Our Lord, the Theotokos and major saints (e.g St. John the Baptist), and Simple Feasts which are for notable feasts and saints of particular significance in the particular tradition. Saints days are commemorated throughout the year. There has been a renaissance of late in restoring to prominence oher feast days that have held traditional significance (e.g. the Dormition of St. John the Apostles & Evangelist).

Thanks!