Do Eastern Catholics believe anyone can be saved?

[Erick_Ybarra]

For instance,

Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc,etc

I heard a priest from the roman catholic tradition say that if muslims lead good lives, they will go to heaven when they die. Is it the same in eastern catholicism?

 

[ConstantineTG]

We believe that God’s power and grace overcomes all. At the end of time He is the only judge and He will decide who is saved or not. It is not for us to decide. The Eastern faith focuses on each one’s own salvation and helping those around them. To worry about the fate of others beyond those around them is something we shouldn’t be concerned with and to be caught up with that is very un-Eastern.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother in Christ Erick,

For instance,

Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc,etc

I heard a priest from the roman catholic tradition say that if muslims lead good lives, they will go to heaven when they die. Is it the same in eastern catholicism?

That’s a very simplistic explanation of the Latin Catholic Tradition from that priest. It is not that non-Christians who lead good lives will get them to heaven, but rather the Grace of God that considers the state of invincible ignorance of that person with that person doing what is objectively good in the eyes of God. These are things that are left to the Judgment of God alone, and focusing or unduly speculating on the specifics of that Judgment will probably cause one to go crazy . There is a rather explicit recognition in the Latin Catholic Tradition that the Grace of God is not bounded by the Sacraments.

Easterns, and Orientals (especially), express a HOPE that all souls will get to heaven. This is also reflected in one of the Eucharistic Prayers of the Latin Catholic Church. This is not the same as saying that all souls WILL DEFINITELY go to heaven (apocatastasis).

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Link0126]

I cannot speak for Eastern Catholicism so this may not be helpful but God knows what our true values are and is the final judge of how we have lived up to what we know to be right. God’s judgement supercedes any labels that we or anyone else place on us.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

We like to pray “Lord have mercy!” a lot, as a near perpetual acknowledgement that God’s mercy is indeed the source of all salvation.

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

So. What do we do with the biblical texts which teach that believing in Christ is necessary for salvation?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

So. What do we do with the biblical texts which teach that believing in Christ is necessary for salvation?

Do those same texts teach that belief in Christ is the only requirement for salvation?

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

They teach that faith and conversion to the Christ of the gospel is required for salvation. It seems to me. ‘‘Brothers my hearts desire and prayer to Israel is that they may be saved’’( rom 10:1-2). According to Paul, the Jews are lost and this blindness continues until either they are converted and thus saved or they are converted at the end.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

According to Paul, the Jews are lost and this blindness continues until either they are converted and thus saved or they are converted at the end.

… which seems to infer that conversion can take place up to the moment of the Final Judgment.

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

Noo Paul means that the blindness will be lifted up and they will embrace the gospel, obviously living jews

 

[mardukm]

So. What do we do with the biblical texts which teach that believing in Christ is necessary for salvation?

Any salvation that can be gained can be gained only because of the Sacrifice of Christ. Whatever Grace of salvation God grants, whether to those who acknowledge Christ as Savior, or to those who through no fault of their own never came to a knowledge of Christ, comes directly from the Sacrifice of Christ. By no other than Christ can salvation come.

Only God knows if a person who does not acknowledge Christ to be his/her Savior, does so out of invincible ignorance, or out of a full knowledge of Who Christ is, yet rejects Him anyway.

At this point, I would like to provide a response to the rhetoric used by certain non-Catholic apostolic Christians who oppose the Catholic Church’s teaching on invincible ignorance. It is claimed by these that there are Fathers who say that if a person never came to know Christ, it is because God made it so (i.e., if a person lives on some remote island and thus had no opportunity to know Christ, he was there by God’s will), and that those people will indeed go to eternal damnation. When I was not yet Catholic, I used to employ this very rhetoric against the Catholic teaching (which I also [mis]interpreted to mean that ANYone could be saved apart from Christ). As I studied the Catholic Faith even more, I came to realize that this rhetoric that I had heretofore employed was very inconsistent with my belief in synergy - it was basically no different from the double-predestination heresy of some Protestants.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

I appreciate your response.

I’m trying to understand the catholic view better here.

It seems to me that the Church has taught that anyone, Muslim Jew Buddhist Hindu, serving whatever idol, the Egyptians, Canaanites, Babylonian, etc etc CAN BE SAVED without ever believing in the truth but by their good works to the false doctrine and light they have.

I understand God applies the sacrifice of Jesus to their account. But they can remain pagan idol worshippers all their life.

This seems to against the fact that it is only faith in Jesus and baptism are necessary for heaven.

I heard a priest say that his Muslim friends can all go to heaven

 

[mardukm]

So. What do we do with the biblical texts which teach that believing in Christ is necessary for salvation?

For those who had the free choice to accept Christ, yes. What about those who never had the opportunity for that choice?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I’m trying to understand the catholic view better here.

But you asked specifically about the Eastern Catholic view, which presupposed that you are familiar with Catholic teaching.

Early posts attempted to give you some perspective of the distinctions between Eastern and Western thought on the subject.

If it is clarity on the Catholic view that you seek, perhaps the question is better directed in another sub-forum.

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

I can kinda understand that principle, but the pope said that the Muslim faith, because of its close relationship to Christianity, can provide salvation through good works.

This just sounds very strange to me. Why nit just save then all

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

But you asked specifically about the Eastern Catholic view, which presupposed that you are familiar with Catholic teaching.

Early posts attempted to give you some perspective of the distinctions between Eastern and Western thought on the subject.

If it is clarity on the Catholic view that you seek, perhaps the question is better directed in another sub-forum.

Well I guess what’s the difference between roman catholics and eastern Catholics? It is just the independence from Rome?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I can kinda understand that principle, but the pope said that the Muslim faith, because of its close relationship to Christianity, can provide salvation through good works.

This just sounds very strange to me. Why nit just save then all

Was the Pope’s assessment an act intended to save Muslims, or simply a statement of understanding that Muslims can be saved? It doesn’t seem that he was trying to convert anyone in this sense.

How successful have Protestants been in converting Muslims to Christianity, particularly in their traditional lands?

 

[mardukm]

I appreciate your response.

I’m trying to understand the catholic view better here.

It seems to me that the Church has taught that anyone, Muslim Jew Buddhist Hindu, serving whatever idol, the Egyptians, Canaanites, Babylonian, etc etc CAN BE SAVED without ever believing in the truth but by their good works to the false doctrine and light they have.

I understand God applies the sacrifice of Jesus to their account. But they can remain pagan idol worshippers all their life.

This seems to against the fact that it is only faith in Jesus and baptism are necessary for heaven.

I heard a priest say that his Muslim friends can all go to heaven

As stated before, part of the equation is objective good. Paganism is not objectively good. A basic belief in one God is a requirement according to the Catholic paradigm. You sacrifice to idols, that’s not gonna cut it. You have to understand that the Catholic Church recognizes that there is inherent good in all religions. That inherent good is the standard that the Catholic Church accepts as a partial basis for salvation, for such inherent good are principles given by God Himself. All else that is of man or the devil from these other religions are not acceptable to the Catholic Church and never forms part of the equation for salvation.

I hope that helps.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Nils]

This is not official dogma, but the belief of some Catholics. Others believe that you cannot even be saved as a protestant, because you are heretic and you do not enjoy the grace of the Sacraments. Rome has not spoken clearly enough just yet, the controversy remains…

 

[mardukm]

Well I guess what’s the difference between roman catholics and eastern Catholics? It is just the independence from Rome?

It’s a matter of emphasis. From my studies, it seems the Latin Tradition is more focused on the probability (laying out the conditions explicitly, though not defining the conditions) that a non-Christian will be saved, whereas the non-Latin Traditons focus more on the possibility that non-Christians will be saved.

Blessings,
Marduk