Do Eastern Catholics ever kneel?

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simple_soul

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I was wondering if some one could tell me why Eastern Catholics never kneel durring Liturgy and always stand when receiving Jesus? Is this a Tradition and if so why is it?
 
simple_soul said:
I was wondering if some one could tell me why Eastern Catholics never kneel durring Liturgy and always stand when receiving Jesus? Is this a Tradition and if so why is it?
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The real question is when and why did Latins start kneeling for Communion?

For the rest of the answer I can only speak for the Byzantine tradition.

There is no kneeling on Sundays, Feastdays, or on any day between Pascha and Pentecost. This is in honor of the Resurrection of Christ. The First Ecumenical Council forbade kneeling at these times.

The rest of the time, the custom varies in different places.

On Lenten weekdays, there are lots of prostrations, especially during the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts.

Since Communion is normally given with a spoon in the Divine Liturgy, you can see how kneeling would NOT be very practical.
 
simple_soul said:
I was wondering if some one could tell me why Eastern Catholics never kneel durring Liturgy and always stand when receiving Jesus? Is this a Tradition and if so why is it?
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(As a Latin)

Eastern Catholics view kneeling differently than Latins do. To Latins, kneeling symbolizes deep respect, reverence, piety, etc. Thus, we kneel during the Canon of the Mass, when we receive the sacraments (traditionally, and except for Baptism and Extreme Unction), and whenever we pass the Tabernacle, etc.

To an Eastern Catholic, kneeling symbolizes repentance, and thus an Eastern Catholic kneels in Confession.

Hope I got this right
 
bpbasilphx said:
The real question is when and why did Latins start kneeling for Communion?

For the rest of the answer I can only speak for the Byzantine tradition.

There is no kneeling on Sundays, Feastdays, or on any day between Pascha and Pentecost. This is in honor of the Resurrection of Christ. The First Ecumenical Council forbade kneeling at these times.

The rest of the time, the custom varies in different places.

On Lenten weekdays, there are lots of prostrations, especially during the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts.

Since Communion is normally given with a spoon in the Divine Liturgy, you can see how kneeling would NOT be very practical.
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OK, this has been my understanding of why Eastern Catholic stand. Do you think that Eastern Catholics have just as much reverence standing as Latins have for kneeling?
I guess now I will go over to the Traditional Catholic forum and ask them when they started kneeling.
Thank you for the confirmation.
 
JuanCarlos said:
(As a Latin)

Eastern Catholics view kneeling differently than Latins do. To Latins, kneeling symbolizes deep respect, reverence, piety, etc. Thus, we kneel during the Canon of the Mass, when we receive the sacraments (traditionally, and except for Baptism and Extreme Unction), and whenever we pass the Tabernacle, etc.

To an Eastern Catholic, kneeling symbolizes repentance, and thus an Eastern Catholic kneels in Confession.

Hope I got this right
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Thank you for your info but I must say that not all Eastern Catholics kneel durring confession. I personaly only know of one church that required it and in my humble opinion it was not very Eastern in its Traditions and practices.
I must also say that alot of Eastern Catholics that I know stand out of deep respect, reverence, piety, etc etc.
I will have to ask, what is the definition of repentance? In other words how does one show repentance?
 
simple_soul said:
Thank you for your info but I must say that not all Eastern Catholics kneel durring confession. I personaly only know of one church that required it and in my humble opinion it was not very Eastern in its Traditions and practices.
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Some years ago, I happened to enter a Serbian Orthodox church in Dubrovnik. The church was gorgeous, (that’s another story), but there was a penitent on her knees, in front of a priest. This was, as I recall, near the north door or the Iconistasis, and the the priest’s epitrachelion was over the penitent. Rather a sure sign of Penance. 😉
 
simple_soul said:
Why would there be another answer?
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There isn’t. I simply did not want to get involved in yet another debate on the “superiority” of a Latin Rite practice. That happens regularly in these fora. I do hope you understand. 🙂
 
malphono said:
Some years ago, I happened to enter a Serbian Orthodox church in Dubrovnik. The church was gorgeous, (that’s another story), but there was a penitent on her knees, in front of a priest. This was, as I recall, near the north door or the Iconistasis, and the the priest’s epitrachelion was over the penitent. Rather a sure sign of Penance. 😉
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Ahhhh I will honastly have to say I was so ignorant as to how many different Eastern Churches there are (Catholic or Orthodox) untill I found these forums. Thank you for giving me something else to ponder.
 
malphono said:
There isn’t. I simply did not want to get involved in yet another debate on the “superiority” of a Latin Rite practice. That happens regularly in these fora. I do hope you understand. 🙂
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I so totally understand! Thank you 😊
 
simple_soul said:
OK, this has been my understanding of why Eastern Catholic stand. Do you think that Eastern Catholics have just as much reverence standing as Latins have for kneeling?
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malphono said:
The brief answer to that is yes.
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The long answer is that the Eastern Catholic practices are more varied than the Roman, including, for the faithful: * communion in the hand* hand-intincted by priest dipping the body into the blood and dropped into the communicant’s mouth* soaked in the precious body and dropped/flicked into the communicant’s mouth* The body Placed upon the extended tongue without intinction

All of these are ancient and licit practices within the churches where they normally occur.

But each of the 22 ECC’s is its own beast, and they fall into 5 rites, and within the rites, things tend to look alike, but across them, they differ wildly. A Chaldean liturgy looks different than an Armenian Liturgy, and both look different from a Byzantine liturgy.

Heck, if you know what to listen for, you can tell the difference between Ukrainian and Ruthenian liturgies…
simple_soul said:
I guess now I will go over to the Traditional Catholic forum and ask them when they started kneeling.
Thank you for the confirmation.
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be prepared for harsh and even condemnatory responses. . Most of the things the Traditionalist movement is upset about in the RCC are things that happen routinely within one or more ECC’s:
  • Communion in the Hand* Standing for communion* liturgy in the vernacular* participation including the faithful responding to the priest and deacon’s prayers with prayers of their own* The expectation that laymen have a proper place in the liturgy.*
  • The ECC’s have various rubrics, and while the west gives them more of a role, the ECC’s have a LONG history of lay ministers and extensive use of minor orders as well. Vespers and Matins have a long history of specific adaptations for being lead by laymen. The lesser hours have a similar history, but also a history of abridgment into something resembling the Rosary.
In short, about the only element that is not present in the ECC somewhere, but is present in the Roman OF, is the kneeling on sundays and during Pascha, and the priest vs populem, but even then, I’ve seen photos of Syrian Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic Orthodox liturgies done vs Populem, too…
 
In short, about the only element that is not present in the ECC somewhere, but is present in the Roman OF, is the kneeling on sundays and during Pascha, and the priest vs populem, but even then, I’ve seen photos of Syrian Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic Orthodox liturgies done vs Populem, too…
**In the Anastasis of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is celebrated versus populem.

It’s the only place in the Orthodox world this happens.

Some have said that the Byzantine St. James should be celebrated thus, too. I’ve seen it celebrated where many of the prayers were said facing the people, including the Litanies, but never the Anaphora.**
 
Aramis said:
The long answer is that the Eastern Catholic practices are more varied than the Roman, including, for the faithful: * communion in the hand* hand-intincted by priest dipping the body into the blood and dropped into the communicant’s mouth* soaked in the precious body and dropped/flicked into the communicant’s mouth* The body Placed upon the extended tongue without intinction

All of these are ancient and licit practices within the churches where they normally occur.

But each of the 22 ECC’s is its own beast, and they fall into 5 rites, and within the rites, things tend to look alike, but across them, they differ wildly. A Chaldean liturgy looks different than an Armenian Liturgy, and both look different from a Byzantine liturgy.

Heck, if you know what to listen for, you can tell the difference between Ukrainian and Ruthenian liturgies…

be prepared for harsh and even condemnatory responses. . Most of the things the Traditionalist movement is upset about in the RCC are things that happen routinely within one or more ECC’s:
  • Communion in the Hand* Standing for communion* liturgy in the vernacular* participation including the faithful responding to the priest and deacon’s prayers with prayers of their own* The expectation that laymen have a proper place in the liturgy.*
  • The ECC’s have various rubrics, and while the west gives them more of a role, the ECC’s have a LONG history of lay ministers and extensive use of minor orders as well. Vespers and Matins have a long history of specific adaptations for being lead by laymen. The lesser hours have a similar history, but also a history of abridgment into something resembling the Rosary.
In short, about the only element that is not present in the ECC somewhere, but is present in the Roman OF, is the kneeling on sundays and during Pascha, and the priest vs populem, but even then, I’ve seen photos of Syrian Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic Orthodox liturgies done vs Populem, too…
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Hi Aramis,

Do you happen to know what the Eastern Traditional Theology is for not kneeling during Pascha and Sundays and the majority of Feast Days? I think I heard the reason once when I was very young and am not sure how to put it in words. If you know could you please refresh my memory?
 
simple_soul said:
Hi Aramis,

Do you happen to know what the Eastern Traditional Theology is for not kneeling during Pascha and Sundays and the majority of Feast Days? I think I heard the reason once when I was very young and am not sure how to put it in words. If you know could you please refresh my memory?
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According to Nicea I we refrain from kneeling from Pascha to Pentecost in honor of the Resurrection; the same Council forbade kneeling on Sundays as Sunday is the Commemoration of the Resurrection.

Not kneeling on the major Feasts is extending the dignity of Pascha to these days.
 
bpbasilphx said:
According to Nicea I we refrain from kneeling from Pascha to Pentecost in honor of the Resurrection; the same Council forbade kneeling on Sundays as Sunday is the Commemoration of the Resurrection.

Not kneeling on the major Feasts is extending the dignity of Pascha to these days.
Click to expand...
Thank you bpbasilphx for the refreshment of my memory for what I heard when I was young. I thought I had remembered it having something to do with the Resurrection I just did not remember the specifics. I really like that word “dignity”.
 
bpbasilphx said:
The real question is when and why did Latins start kneeling for Communion?

For the rest of the answer I can only speak for the Byzantine tradition.

There is no kneeling on Sundays, Feastdays, or on any day between Pascha and Pentecost. This is in honor of the Resurrection of Christ. The First Ecumenical Council forbade kneeling at these times.

The rest of the time, the custom varies in different places.

On Lenten weekdays, there are lots of prostrations, especially during the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts.

Since Communion is normally given with a spoon in the Divine Liturgy, you can see how kneeling would NOT be very practical.
Click to expand...
I think the reason is that the East and the West views kneeling differently. To the East, it’s a sign of penance. That’s why it was forbidden on Sundays. But in the West, it’s just a sign of humility and reverence 🙂 so if you look at it that way, there’s nothing wrong with kneeling in Catholic Churches. It’s just a cultural difference.

God bless
 
so if you look at it that way, there’s nothing wrong with kneeling in Catholic Churches.
**Don’t you mean in LATIN Churches?

After all, Eastern Catholics, who don’t kneel, are Catholics, too.**
 
I’ve seen kneelers in every Eastern Catholic Church I’ve ever visited. Who says they don’t kneel ? It’s even in the Liturgical books.
 
Just go to a Ukrainian Greek Catholic liturgy, LOL, plenty of people kneeling.

Just try and tell some of those Ukrainian “babushki” who suffered through communism that they shouldn’t kneel because it “isn’t part of the tradition” and see what response you get, LOL. :eek:

Anyone here ever been to the Basilian Church, St. Andri, in the center of L’viv? I didn’t know if I was at a TLM or a Divine Liturgy. On the other hand, I have never seen so many people lined up for confession on a weekday!
 
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