Do Episcopalians, Lutherans or Anglicans venerate Mary and the saints?

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This question applies only to Epscopalians, Lutherans and Anglicans. Since most of there belief is very close to Catholics. I like to know what is the teachings of the veneration of the saints and Mary?

I was never clear on this subject but I want to know what the real deal is.

Thanks.

Your Catholic Christian Brother in Christ,

Emmanuel C.😃
 
Anglicans are a diverse bunch. The Anglo-Catholics probably do venerate Mary. GKC can tell you for sure. My (former) branch of Anglicanism, low church evangelical Episcopal, did not (although we certainly respected Mary and fairly often sang a hymn based on the Magnificat). FWIW, I am currently attending a LCMS Church and have not observed any veneration of Mary.
 
rr1213 said:
Anglicans are a diverse bunch. The Anglo-Catholics probably do venerate Mary. GKC can tell you for sure. My (former) branch of Anglicanism, low church evangelical Episcopal, did not (although we certainly respected Mary and fairly often sang a hymn based on the Magnificat). FWIW, I am currently attending a LCMS Church and have not observed any veneration of Mary.
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It’s as rr1213 says, re: Anglicans. They are a diverse bag. I’m over on the Anglo-Catholic side. We have a small Mary Shrine in the sanctuary, OL of Walsingham. Walsingham is a good thing to google, to see Anglicans venerating Mary. One point: Anglicans almost never represent Mary alone, but with Our Lord, to emphasize her role. But, after all, it was an Anglican who called Mary “our tainted nature’s solitary boast”.

Our parish usually recites or sings the Angelus, or the Regina Coeli, at each Mass.

Saints are not as visible, as Mary, but we follow the liturgical calendar, and feast days.

GKC
 
GKC said:
It’s as rr1213 says, re: Anglicans. They are a diverse bag. I’m over on the Anglo-Catholic side. We have a small Mary Shrine in the sanctuary, OL of Walsingham. Walsingham is a good thing to google, to see Anglicans venerating Mary. One point: Anglicans almost never represent Mary alone, but with Our Lord, to emphasize her role. But, after all, it was an Anglican who called Mary “our tainted nature’s solitary boast”.

Our parish usually recites or sings the Angelus, or the Regina Coeli, at each Mass.

Saints are not as visible, as Mary, but we follow the liturgical calendar, and feast days.

GKC
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Yes, and as a priest associate of OLW, I am impressed with the degree of ecumenicity you’ll find in that holy little town. The Anglicans actually revived the veneration of OLW, followed by our Roman Catholic brethren, then the Eastern Orthodox. All have a shrine in Walsingham. It’s quite lovely really. And celebrating the Sacrifice of the Mass in baroque fiddleback chasubles is a rare privilege which we priests humbly offer to our Lady and Lord’s beneficence. It’s a lovely bit of tat, and it makes for a wonderful means of consolation in an often disconsolating profession.

Again, the Shrine of Walsingham is one of the most holy places on Earth, with its deeply ecumenical presence. I cannot think of an equivalent, apart from the Holy Land.

I should also mention that no woman ordained a priest may celebrate at the Anglican Shrine. That doubtless contributes to the wonderful expression of ecumenicity in the town.
 
QuicumqueVult said:
Yes, and as a priest associate of OLW, I am impressed with the degree of ecumenicity you’ll find in that holy little town. The Anglicans actually revived the veneration of OLW, followed by our Roman Catholic brethren, then the Eastern Orthodox. All have a shrine in Walsingham. It’s quite lovely really. And celebrating the Sacrifice of the Mass in baroque fiddleback chasubles is a rare privilege which we priests humbly offer to our Lady and Lord’s beneficence. It’s a lovely bit of tat, and it makes for a wonderful means of consolation in an often disconsolating profession.

Again, the Shrine of Walsingham is one of the most holy places with a deeply ecumenical presence apart from the Holy Land.

I should also mention that no woman ordained a priest may celebrate at the Anglican Shrine. That perhaps contributes to the wonderful expression of ecumenicity in the town.
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Our assistant parish priest has a special devotion to OLW. It was he who brought the statue back, to form the Mary Shrine, replacing the painting we had used. And I received a note from him today, on a notecard with images from Waalsingham. Our rector also has visited several times.

GKC
 
I know a Diocese in TEC with a VERY special devotion to OLW. Their Bishop is one of the most holy men I’ve met. Lest we divulge privileged information, I’ll just say that Forward in Faith is one of the few remaining Anglican constituencies offering credible hope for reunion with Rome through the Pastoral Provision. Given all the recent events in the Anglican Communion, some manner of Uniate Church comprised of disaffected Anglicans might be our only hope of retaining catholicity without merely joining up with our canonical Latin Rite parish and its lackluster liturgy.
 
May I add an additional post to say I have no idea who GKC is or where he resides? In the online universe, we sometimes like to retain a degree of anonymity. GKC implies that he is an American Anglican. I have stated elsewhere that I am a priest in the Church of England.

Again, I personally have no knowledge of the identity or location of my dear brother or sister in Christ whose online handle is GKC, though her/his initials are happily resonant with the author of the seminal text entitled Orthodoxy.
 
QuicumqueVult said:
May I add an additional post to say I have no idea who GKC is or where he resides? In the online universe, we sometimes like to retain a degree of anonymity. GKC implies that he is an American Anglican. I have stated elsewhere that I am a priest in the Church of England.

Again, I personally have no knowledge of the identity or location of my dear brother or sister in Christ whose online handle is GKC, though her/his initials are happily resonant with the author of the seminal text entitled Orthodoxy.
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Written when my man was still nominally Anglican, too.

My board name was chosen because I have collected, read, and studied Chesterton for over 45 years. As also Belloc, Williams, Lewis, Lunn, Sayers, Knox and such like.

No great secret as to my location, it’s in the US, right down there . And my parish is a Forward in Faith parish, not in ECUSA/TEC and not in communion with Canterbury. Which tells you that I’m in the Continuum.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
My intuition was correct then. That’s a relief.

But what’s up with the invitations to Lambeth? Bottom line is you stick with TEC or you’re not a part of the Anglican Communion. Sounds like only the ECUSA loyalists are Lambeth Anglicans. That’s scary. How long will it be before conservative Anglicans are either Lambeth-Anglicans or – oh, I dunno, say – Nigerian-Anglicans?

Begs the whole catholicity question really. Catholicism is necessarily global.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
This question applies only to Epscopalians, Lutherans and Anglicans. Since most of there belief is very close to Catholics. I like to know what is the teachings of the veneration of the saints and Mary?

I was never clear on this subject but I want to know what the real deal is.

Thanks.

Your Catholic Christian Brother in Christ,

Emmanuel C.😃
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Former Episcopalian, theologically trained at what was once the last “Anglo-Catholic” Episcopalian seminary; now Roman Catholic:

Yes, many do.

I credit my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary (and elements of my conversion) to my godmother: the late Sister Hilary of the All Saints Sisters of the Poor.

As a “High Church Anglican” she was far more Catholic in her theology and prayer life than most Catholics I’ve met. Yes, I have become RC – and I thank God for His Grace – but we must never disparage the authentic spirituality of saintly Anglo-Catholics.
 
QuicumqueVult said:
My intuition was correct then. That’s a relief.

But what’s up with the invitations to Lambeth? Bottom line is you stick with TEC or you’re not a part of the Anglican Communion. Sounds like only the ECUSA loyalists are Lambeth Anglicans. That’s scary. How long will it be before conservative Anglicans are either Lambeth-Anglicans or – oh, I dunno, say – Nigerian-Anglicans?

Begs the whole catholicity question really. Catholicism is necessarily global.
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We necessarily give Lambeth a pass. Miss the port, and all, but there you are. No, not a part of the Anglican Communion, clearly stated. Not a part of ECUSA for 30 years. Anglican, all the same. And FiF/SSC. Oh, and Catholic, generically, not specifically.

As to the future of the TEC, and the directions that the remnants might take, I can’t even conjecture. I got my own problems.

GKC
 
David_Zampino said:
Former Episcopalian, theologically trained at what was once the last “Anglo-Catholic” Episcopalian seminary; now Roman Catholic:

Yes, many do.

I credit my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary (and elements of my conversion) to my godmother: the late Sister Hilary of the All Saints Sisters of the Poor.

As a “High Church Anglican” she was far more Catholic in her theology and prayer life than most Catholics I’ve met. Yes, I have become RC – and I thank God for His Grace – but we must never disparage the authentic spirituality of saintly Anglo-Catholics.
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Greetings, friend David.

How are you?

GKC
 
Dear David Zampino,

Did you attend Nashotah House ? And if so, what diocese sponsored you ?

Peace,

Br Mark, OSB
 
Br_Mark said:
Dear David Zampino,

Did you attend Nashotah House ? And if so, what diocese sponsored you ?

Peace,

Br Mark, OSB
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Yes, I was Nashotah House!

I graduated in 1998. I was not part of ECUSA at the time; rather was part of the “experiment” which allowed for Continuing Anglicans, members of the CEC, and conservative Lutherans.

My time at The House was 90% + positive . . . but I’m most unhappy with what is going on there now.

Blessings,

(and please feel free to PM me!)
 
GKC said:
My board name was chosen because I have collected, read, and studied Chesterton for over 45 years. As also Belloc, Williams, Lewis, Lunn, Sayers, Knox and such like.
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You’ve far supassed my intellectual intake. What a stellar library you must inhabit. And I have an inkling you imbibe a wee dram of Tolkein as well?

An impish muse upset me recently when it occurred to me I’d much rather live in Middle Earth than Narnia.

It corresponds with an analogy by another disaffected Anglican priest. An Anglican parish is a quaint and ancient little village church set on a hill. Its liturgy is lovely, its congregation small and homogeneously middle-class, white and quite bright. A Catholic parish is a bustling city train station. All manner of people abound. Some even lie drunk on the benches. Some discreetly read the newspaper. Some cannot read. A few are reading proper literature (Eliot perhaps?). But all tracks lead there and it’s by no means isolated. It’s everyone. It’s everywhere. It’s uncomfortable. But it’s real. (Real in Newman’s sense.)

There’s another man whose words often haunt my thoughts. His analogy of being adrift as an Anglican and finding a secure port in Rome. That’s unsettling to me.

Please don’t take offense, my dear Brother in Christ. I wish I had your equanimity, or better, the manifest fruit of the Spirit.

Cheers,
QV+
 
QuicumqueVult said:
You’ve far supassed my intellectual intake. What a stellar library you must inhabit. And I have an inkling you imbibe a wee dram of Tolkein as well?
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Oops. Forgot to mention John Ronald. And Christopher Dawson.

“Inhabit” is the word, indeed. The library, which stretches over many enthusiasums (and many storage venues) beyond those listed, is a lifelong delight and a present burden. Just housing about 25,000 volumes is a challenge. And now I’m in the midst of moving them, to a new house, to (I hope) build a suitable library to shelf as many as possible, so I can see the things without digging in boxes in the attic, garage and storage shed.
An impish muse upset me recently when it occurred to me I’d much rather live in Middle Earth than Narnia.

It corresponds with an analogy by another disaffected Anglican priest. An Anglican parish is a quaint and ancient little village church set on a hill. Its liturgy is lovely, its congregation small and homogeneously middle-class, white and quite bright. A Catholic parish is a bustling city train station. All manner of people abound. Some even lie drunk on the benches. Some discreetly read the newspaper. Some cannot read. A few are reading proper literature (Eliot perhaps?). But all tracks lead there and it’s by no means isolated. It’s everyone. It’s everywhere. It’s uncomfortable. But it’s real. (Real in Newman’s sense.)

There’s another man whose words often haunt my thoughts. His analogy of being adrift as an Anglican and finding a secure port in Rome. That’s unsettling to me.

Please don’t take offense, my dear Brother in Christ. I wish I had your equanimity, or better, the manifest fruit of the Spirit.

Cheers,
QV+
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Oh, no offense taken, to be sure. It sounds like you may be on the track that my good friend David (above) took. I wish you well of it, and a safe harbor. As one Catholic to another.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
David_Zampino said:
My time at The House was 90% + positive . . . but I’m most unhappy with what is going on there now.
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So it would seem there is no alternative for traditionalist Anglican postulants in America? (Trinity is too imbued with the spirit of Calvin.) That’s troubling…

Ephraim Radner thinks Anglicanism is ichabod, but we must endure the absence of God. Rusty Reno decided he could not remain among the ruins because, if I might paraphrase his post-Ruins comments in First Things, the ruination was rather self-imposed, even necessary given the initial grounds for the Anglican schism.

Fellow Henricians: what keeps you content to be Anglican these days?
 
Mannyfit75 said:
This question applies only to Epscopalians, Lutherans and Anglicans. Since most of there belief is very close to Catholics. I like to know what is the teachings of the veneration of the saints and Mary?

I was never clear on this subject but I want to know what the real deal is.
Click to expand...
  • The real deal*, from the Lutheran submission to the Diet of Augsburg:Of the Worship of Saints they teach that the memory of saints may be set before us, that we may follow their faith and good works, according to our calling, as the Emperor may follow the example of David in making war to drive away the Turk from his country. For both are kings. But the Scripture teaches not the invocation of saints or to ask help of saints, since it sets before us the one Christ as the Mediator, Propitiation, High Priest, and Intercessor. He is to be prayed to, and has promised that He will hear our prayer; and this worship He approves above all, to wit, that in all afflictions He be called upon, 1 John 2:1: If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, etc.
This is about the Sum of our Doctrine, in which, as can be seen, there is nothing that varies from the Scriptures, or from the Church Catholic, or from the Church of Rome as known from its writers. This being the case, they judge harshly who insist that our teachers be regarded as heretics. There is, however, disagreement on certain Abuses, which have crept into the Church without rightful authority. And even in these, if there were some difference, there should be proper lenity on the part of bishops to bear with us by reason of the Confession which we have now reviewed; because even the Canons are not so severe as to demand the same rites everywhere, neither, at any time, have the rites of all churches been the same; although, among us, in large part, the ancient rites are diligently observed. For it is a false and malicious charge that all the ceremonies, all the things instituted of old, are abolished in our churches. But it has been a common complaint that some abuses were connected with the ordinary rites. These, inasmuch as they could not be approved with a good conscience, have been to some extent corrected.
Also of possible interest:

The response of the Roman representatives to the Lutheran confession.

The Lutheran Response to the Roman Response:

excerpt:10] yet it does not follow that they are to be invoked; although our Confession affirms only this, that Scripture does not teach the invocation of the saints, or that we are to ask the saints for aid. But since neither a command, nor a promise, nor an example can be produced from the Scriptures concerning the invocation of saints, it follows that conscience can have nothing concerning this invocation that is certain. And since prayer ought to be made from faith, how do we know that God approves this invocation?
 
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