Do evangelical men struggle less w sexual sin?

[Latinitas]

My son and I get into theological debates often because he joined a christian house church about 2 years ago.

My last discussion was about my son not thinking that my husband is saved. Admittedly, my husband is not on fire for the Catholic faith, at least not the way I am and my son is for his newly found christian faith.

I don’t understand why my husband is very lukewarm about his faith. He is a convert of 15 years. He attends Mass, goes to Confession and prays each morning but a lot of what he does feel like he does it by rote. My son is right when he says that my husband has no passion for the faith. My son says that the reason is because he is in the Catholic church and does not know Christ.

When I met my husband he was an atheist and not living a moral life. I was very young and abandoned by my divorced parents so I latched on to him. I would never do that now but we have grown together and come a long way. I think my husband has minimal faith and he makes an effort to do more even though he does not have the zeal or the motivation to do it. He attends the men’s group at church and he likes it.

My son attended our catholic men’s group and said that some of the men there talk a lot about their struggle with sin, especially pornography. My son said that his Evangelical men friends do not have those problems because they are saved and they have Christ.

My son just got married last week and was a virgin, mostly because of my constant teaching about the importance of saving oneself for marriage

Could this be true that the evangelical men do not struggle with these serious sins and that Catholic men for some reason do? He is also very down on Catholic priests (I am heartfully sorry to say this because our poor priests have been through so much) because of the sex abuse scandal and this is probably the main reason he did not stay in the Catholic Church and will not give the Church a chance.

Is it possible? What do you think?

I

My concern here is that you seem to think that your husband isn’t on fire for the Catholic faith. What makes you say this? He prays in the morning, goes to Mass, confession etc. Perhaps he’s in a period of spiritual aridity. This doesn’t imply a lack of devotion to the faith. Frankly, the fact that, even through what might be period of dryness he continues to pray and receive the sacraments shows great piety and devotion to the faith.

Also, Catholic prayers may be rote, but it’s because prayers are designed to please God, and not man. What pleases God? Anything that mirrors the perfections of His essence. And one of these perfections is immutability. Hence the relative immutability of the Mass, the Rosary and the like.

Of course, it may be true, that he’s just doing this out of rote practice, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing either. As long as we’re confident God hears us and we sincerely intend to pray without distraction, the prayers is well-made.

I should say that I don’t mean to berate you here. You know your husband better than I do, of course, and you maybe right that he’s not quite as devout. But I would caution against judging the fervour of the faith of others on the basis of appearance.

Now to the main question. To be honest, I hate to say it, but because of the “assurance of salvation” doctrine, many Protestants (to be sure, not every Protestant believes in assurance) treat sin with less urgency (yes, I do realize that Protestants believe in repentence, and oppose carnality as well, but the effect of their teaching is invariably a less urgent concern about sin). Is it that the Catholics struggle more, or are they more open about it? Confession of sin is a sign of humility. It’s actually only since I’ve become a Catholic (and I was a loose Protestant before-hand) that I’ve recognized the gravity of the sins of the flesh.

I think to be honest, that your son may be deceived by apperances. I’ll give it to the evangelicals that they can be more lively, but he shoudln’t conclude that there aren’t fervent Catholics who care about sins and who live in purity and holiness.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[Petersmate]

Catholic can be more under attack from the devil. Having said that, everyone is a sinner.

 

[As_for_my_House]

My concern here is that you seem to think that your husband isn’t on fire for the Catholic faith. What makes you say this? He prays in the morning, goes to Mass, confession etc. Perhaps he’s in a period of spiritual aridity. This doesn’t imply a lack of devotion to the faith. Frankly, the fact that, even through what might be period of dryness he continues to pray and receive the sacraments shows great piety and devotion to the faith.

Also, Catholic prayers may be rote, but it’s because prayers are designed to please God, and not man. What pleases God? Anything that mirrors the perfections of His essence. And one of these perfections is immutability. Hence the relative immutability of the Mass, the Rosary and the like.

Of course, it may be true, that he’s just doing this out of rote practice, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing either. As long as we’re confident God hears us and we sincerely intend to pray without distraction, the prayers is well-made.

I should say that I don’t mean to berate you here. You know your husband better than I do, of course, and you maybe right that he’s not quite as devout. But I would caution against judging the fervour of the faith of others on the basis of appearance.

Now to the main question. To be honest, I hate to say it, but because of the “assurance of salvation” doctrine, many Protestants (to be sure, not every Protestant believes in assurance) treat sin with less urgency (yes, I do realize that Protestants believe in repentence, and oppose carnality as well, but the effect of their teaching is invariably a less urgent concern about sin). Is it that the Catholics struggle more, or are they more open about it? Confession of sin is a sign of humility. It’s actually only since I’ve become a Catholic (and I was a loose Protestant before-hand) that I’ve recognized the gravity of the sins of the flesh.

I think to be honest, that your son may be deceived by apperances. I’ll give it to the evangelicals that they can be more lively, but he shoudln’t conclude that there aren’t fervent Catholics who care about sins and who live in purity and holiness.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

Thank you for your insights. I do think the “assurance of salvation doctrine” has a lot to do with my son’s judgement that his dad is not saved. I think that my son believes that if dad was truly “saved” the infusion of grace would be reflected in his dad’s daily behavior. He doesn’t see how far my husband has come.
I think my son is meeting so many people on fire for the Lord that this is what he has begun to use as his measure for salvation. My new question is- are they on fire for the Lord or are they on fire for the good fellowship that they are receiving in these communities? I have tried to explain to him that we all go through a "honeymoon period with the Lord ".

I am so much more concerned for my son than for my husband. Even though my husband seems lukewarm I know that he has the Mass. He has the Sacraments. He has all the wealth that the Lord has given us so I know he will be ok * but my poor son…* Please pray for my boy.

 

[PRmerger]

My son and I get into theological debates often because he joined a christian house church about 2 years ago.

My last discussion was about my son not thinking that my husband is saved. Admittedly, my husband is not on fire for the Catholic faith, at least not the way I am and my son is for his newly found christian faith.

I don’t understand why my husband is very lukewarm about his faith. He is a convert of 15 years. He attends Mass, goes to Confession and prays each morning but a lot of what he does feel like he does it by rote. My son is right when he says that my husband has no passion for the faith. My son says that the reason is because he is in the Catholic church and does not know Christ.

When I met my husband he was an atheist and not living a moral life. I was very young and abandoned by my divorced parents so I latched on to him. I would never do that now but we have grown together and come a long way. I think my husband has minimal faith and he makes an effort to do more even though he does not have the zeal or the motivation to do it. He attends the men’s group at church and he likes it.

My son attended our catholic men’s group and said that some of the men there talk a lot about their struggle with sin, especially pornography. My son said that his Evangelical men friends do not have those problems because they are saved and they have Christ.

My son just got married last week and was a virgin, mostly because of my constant teaching about the importance of saving oneself for marriage

Could this be true that the evangelical men do not struggle with these serious sins and that Catholic men for some reason do? He is also very down on Catholic priests (I am heartfully sorry to say this because our poor priests have been through so much) because of the sex abuse scandal and this is probably the main reason he did not stay in the Catholic Church and will not give the Church a chance.

Is it possible? What do you think?

I

Regardless of whether it’s true or not that Evangelical men struggle less with sexual sin (and I would guess they do NOT)…and regardless of the fact that some horrible priests have abused innocent children…

your son needs to choose a faith NOT based on who has the most sinners, but on which Church Jesus founded.

And then join that Church.

And there is no other Church (save for perhaps the Orthodox) that can say that it is the Church founded by Christ.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Thank you for your insights. I do think the “assurance of salvation doctrine” has a lot to do with my son’s judgement that his dad is not saved. I think that my son believes that if dad was truly “saved” the infusion of grace would be reflected in his dad’s daily behavior. He doesn’t see how far my husband has come.
I think my son is meeting so many people on fire for the Lord that this is what he has begun to use as his measure for salvation. My new question is- are they on fire for the Lord or are they on fire for the good fellowship that they are receiving in these communities? I have tried to explain to him that we all go through a "honeymoon period with the Lord ".

I am so much more concerned for my son than for my husband. Even though my husband seems lukewarm I know that he has the Mass. He has the Sacraments. He has all the wealth that the Lord has given us so I know he will be ok * but my poor son…* Please pray for my boy.

As a former protestant, I can tell you it is quite a experience to pick up the Gospels and read them, and ask Jesus to be your savior. You are full of zeal and grace as well. I guess you could call it a honeymoon period of sorts like you said. I didn’t even have a fellowship of any sort when first becoming a Christian, so I think your son’s zeal is genuine, imo.

Non-Catholics, probably like those in your son’s group, see the Catholic church as a false religion because they think it’s all ritual w/o relationship. And maybe that’s true for some Catholics but many do have a great relationship with the Lord. They think in black and white terms, you know, either or. Either Jesus or Mary but cant have both. And of course that’s not right but God bless them for being dedicated. They mean well…

Anyway if someone is truly dedicated to conquer sin, the sacraments will be very helpful. But the Church tells us that the disposition of the heart matters as well. I think a lot of cultural Catholics are in Mass because it’s tradition or because someone is telling them to go, but they lack true love for God, unfortunately. Or they just love this world more than God.

Your husband does not sound like a cultural Catholic. Strange, as we usually do not see someone in Mass and utilizing sacraments and having no growth in his walk with Christ.

In regards to your son, I once heard Fr. Corapi say that while protestants have less than we do lacking the deposit of the faith, they do more with less. And you know, the best Catholics I have seen, honestly, are former protestants. Like Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, Marcus Grodi and others. Perhaps your son is beginning a wonderful journey that ultimately leads him to be a great Catholic apologist one day. It’s a good thing he has a great example in his mother.

 

[Church_Militant]

As one who spent over 30 years among various n-C communities before being led home by the Holy Spirit through the Blessed Virgin (See My Testimony) my response to your son would be that he has several problems. One is his faulty judgement of the Catholic Church and your husband. Anyone who reads the Gospels will quickly see that different people respond differently in their expressions of faith and a recent Mass reading example is Mary and Martha. Both loved Jesus, they just responded to the graces differently. You see this all throughout the Gospels. Look at Peter and Andrew and the brothers Zebedee, the the woman at the well vs Zachaeus and we could go on all day, right? Your son needs to read his New Testament and see all this for himself. Many n-C communities (and particularly n-Ds like the one your son seems to be in.) have their own sort of checklist for salvation and anyone who doesn’t check off on most of it is “unsaved”. It’s obviously flawed and judgemental but they don’t see it. It’s one reason that they rag on us Catholics so much…but they are almost always terribly ignorant of both scripture (and would flip out if your said that to them ) as well as Christian history. For example…your son’s “house church” is pretty much a response to what they mistakenly believe the early church was like, but he might be better informed if he saw my blog article What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like? which documents the truth.

Many have a real zeal for evangelism and if one doesn’t share their faith with everyone they meet by “witnessing” to them then they question their salvation. (essentially based upon an out of context reading of Romans 10:9) Here again we see an unfortunate lack of contextual knowledge of the New Testament and Bible in general.

Your husband has no doubt come along way and just because he doesn’t fit inside the cookie cutter mold that your son’s community uses for salvation means pretty much nothing. Hopefully you can shield him from a potential assault on his faith from your son which could do a lot of damage to their relationship (and yours too probably) and their faith.

The other thing that strikes me is the immature and unscriptural thinking of your son with regard to temptation and sin. They are not the same and that is plain in scripture with a good example being Our Lord’s temptation in the desert. Even more important we see that temptations always come to us. Ever wanna just sort of smack your son for being kinda self righteous? But if you don’t do that then you have a prize winning example of exactly what I’m talking about…and a very scriptural one as well. Scripture tells us we will be tempted, but it also tells us it is not sin to be tempted and how to deal with it. See James 1:2-4, James 4:7, and also James 1:12-15

You might also find this CA article helpful. Assurance of Salvation?

So then he needs better teaching to say the least. I understand because I was once like him. If you think he’d read it I suggest that you get him a copy of Surprised by Truth which will help him see good examples of conversion testimonies by some pretty amazing Catholics…you might also give your hubby a copy just because it’s a really enjoyable read and very inspirational.

Know that you and your family will be in my prayers from now on and I beg for your prayers for me and mine as well.
Peace be with you.https://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Tr...134&sr=8-1&keywords=surprised+by+truth+madrid

 

[SalamKhan]

Phenomenology (personal experience) is no way to gauge truth. You can get a Pagan claiming to have lived the highest standards of natural morality and it wouldn’t make his Pagan beliefs any more true. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints.

 

[Gabrield11]

Maybe there are evangelicals who didnt struggle with that but i have many evangelical friends and i was one, and we had and have also struggles with that.
I think for a catholic you can get more support from your priest while the confession because evangelicals didnt have confession and want to hide it for the world.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Phenomenology (personal experience) is no way to gauge truth. You can get a Pagan claiming to have lived the highest standards of natural morality and it wouldn’t make his Pagan beliefs any more true. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints.

Great quote