Do Evangelical Pastors study metaphysics?

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OptimusPrimefan

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Hello, I’m new to the forum. A question that has always puzzled me concerning the Evangilical traditions, is do their Pastors study philosophy. The reason that I’m asking, is that sometimes their positions on certain doctrines (OSAS vs free will) cannot be justifyied from a position of reason.

Thank-you,
OptimusPrimefan
 
I’m sure some do, but since evangelical churches often aren’t that organized anyone can just start one up. There’s no requirement to be a pastor I don’t think. It’s not like the Catholic priesthood where candidates go through about 8 years of seminary after high school studying philosophy and theology.
 
Good point, thank-you. I was watching a gentleman by the name of Jack Van Impe. He seemed to think he was in agreement with the Church’s teaching. What intrigued me was that he was apparently a PHD. My question is how does he justify his escatology, ecclesiology and theology? Does he reflect the majority of Evangelical scholars? Is it easier to get a PHD from an evangelical institution?
 
Optimus,

There are educated evangelicals and uneducated evangelicals. As was written it’s hard to generalize. I have encountered many who have no understanding of philosophy at all. Generally speaking your generalization is correct. Many evangelicals have little substance to their theology beyond “Jesus saves.” VanImpe is smarter than most.

Dan L, former United Methodist pastor
 
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OptimusPrimefan:
Good point, thank-you. I was watching a gentleman by the name of Jack Van Impe. He seemed to think he was in agreement with the Church’s teaching. What intrigued me was that he was apparently a PHD. My question is how does he justify his escatology, ecclesiology and theology? Does he reflect the majority of Evangelical scholars? Is it easier to get a PHD from an evangelical institution?
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Unfortunately, many people call themselves “Doctor” which implies they have a doctorate or Phd but they do not have a doctorate or a Phd. Some even go so far as to lie on resumes about where they got their degrees. I don’t know whether that is the case with Jack Van Impe.
 
Optimus,

You can’t generalize about “evangelicals.” Mainline Protestant denominations (which include many evangelicals) and many of the more conservative/evangelical denominations as well do have educational requirements for ordination. Baptists typically ordain first and then send the new minister to seminary (it being an important part of their tradition that education is not necessary for clergy, although it may be desirable). The more fundamentalist and free-church groups (this would include many of the folks you’d see on T.V. like van Impe) often are very loose on this sort of thing.

Even among mainline denominations the requirements vary. Presbyterians, for instance, require a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew of all ordinands; Methodists don’t. Generally philosophy is not emphasized by Protestants, though. The focus is more heavily on Biblical studies (as you’d expect), and more recently there’s a tendency to emphasize practical training (like counseling) and grumpy academics like me worry that a solid intellectual foundation is not being laid.

People in our society claim doctorates very easily. Many famous preachers acquire honorary doctorates which they have not earned, and they are often the most eager to use the title (those who actually earn doctorates have the respect of the academic guild and don’t need to coerce respect by throwing their titles around every minute). Whether Van Impe has ever written a doctoral dissertation I don’t know, but his use of the title “Dr.” doesn’t prove that he has.

Edwin
 
Sorry, I didn’t mean to generalize. I am basing my comments only from experiences that I am encountering.

God Bless,
OptimusPrimefan
 
My understanding is that it depends on the denomination. I would imagine that ministers from Lutheran, Methodist and Other mainline Protestants are educated in philosophy. Among fundamentalists there does seem to be almost a distrust of reason, science and philosophy. Of course this is a broad generalization and I am certain that there are probably well educated ministers among the Baptists or Pentecostals.
 
Ther are a lot of protestant sects that teach that human reason is something to be avoided at all costs when dealing with issues of faith and scripture. They reject “human” reason as corrupt simply by virtue of being “human” and not divine.

To me, that sort of thinking leads to all sorts of epistemological difficulties, but there are some who apparently see no problem with that assumption.
 
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Contarini:
Good point, arieh.

I should have said “you have to be cautious generalizing . . . .”

Edwin
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😃 Just having a bit of fun, got a kick out of it when I read it. In GENERAL, I agree with the points you made.
 
Most Protestant Seminaries are very rigorous. I actually said in a Lutheran forum last week that I have problems with how much their doctrines are driven off of the dominant philosophies at the time of the reformation.

By definition all Theologians study metaphysics because God is above and beyond physics. We need to be careful also that we don’t judge ones worth on knowledge or gnosis least we be Gnostics or the sophists.
 
This is what I wrote on the Lutheran Board:

No I am not Lutheran but I one time I was considering it… But, as I started reading the writings of the Church Fathers and teaching myself Greek I started having problems with some of the Lutheran doctrines.

I think one of the major things that bothers me is more than any other denomination Lutheran doctrine is driven by western philosophy – and not surprisingly German philosophy in particular. It’s not that it isn’t a Sola Scriptura Church because it is but the way Lutheranism perceives certain scriptures is really confounded by later philosophical viewpoints something terrible.
 
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OptimusPrimefan:
sometimes their positions on certain doctrines (OSAS vs free will) cannot be justifyied from a position of reason.
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This is more a problem of definition than of reason.

There is nothing unreasonable in saying that God irreversibly changes a person’s status who passes from death to life. If God wants to do that irreversibly, it’s his choice, not ours.

Either position, OSAS or non-OSAS, is perfectly permissible by the canons of reason. The real question is, which is scriptural?

On the other hand, your statement might have grown out of hearing dumb arguments used in defense of OSAS. If so, you’d be well justified in asking whether the proponents had ever studied logic. I’m convinced that, in most cases, the answer would be “no.” Someone who studies logic has an inner aversion to dumb arguments, even if he agrees with the point that the dumb argument purports to prove.
 
Optimus,

You asked about Metaphysics in your title. I think it can be safely said that few evangelicals ever study Metaphysics. Most would think that it is a waste of time. Most would assert I should think that our reason is totally deprived. So, why study it. Rather they would put all their philosophical eggs into Epistemology. Knowing is more important than being for all evangelicals. This distinction between Protestant and Catholic can be seen at all levels.

DesCartes really marked the end of metaphysics in the West. I’m glad Catholics and Orthodox never followed him.

Dan L
 
GregoryPalamas,
Code: 
       By not studying 'Being' as such, wouldn't they run into several problems, including Fideism?  How do they discern 'Truth?'  Is it solely from a 'FIF'  (Funny Internal feeling) mindset?  Thanks...
God Bless,
OptimusPrimefan
 
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OptimusPrimefan:
GregoryPalamas,

By not studying ‘Being’ as such, wouldn’t they run into several problems, including Fideism? How do they discern ‘Truth?’ Is it solely from a ‘FIF’ (Funny Internal feeling) mindset? Thanks…

God Bless,
OptimusPrimefan
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Optimus,

FIF that’s good. It is in fact almost the only way they discern “truth”.
I’m grateful for a new achronim which is so accurate.

CDL
 
From a Baptist Doctorate Program

Philosophy of Religion

The concentration in Philosophy of Religion examines issues that are significant to Christian thought and reasoning. Seminars and seminar discussions aim to explore the development of Western thought, the defense of the Christian faith and the relationship of faith and modern culture. Students interact with their professors and other Ph.D. students to explore a full range of philosophical thinking, from ontology and metaphysics to ethics and epistemology. The goal of the program is to graduate scholars who have developed the habit of thinking and writing about complex philosophical issues in a critical and rigorous manner.
The student’s pre-dissertation work includes eight graduate seminars. Students must take at least four (out of eight) seminars in their area of concentration. If less than four are available, they must take all that are offered plus confer with their major professor. Seminar listings and descriptions are provided in the SEBTS Student Handbook.

From A Lutheran Grad Program

Associate Professor of Philosophy
B.A., Northwestern College, Watertown, WI
M.Div., Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary
D.Min., Concordia Theological Seminary, Ft. Wayne, IN
Academic Specialties
Doctrine of Church and Ministry;
German Philosophy: Kant, Nietzsche, Heidegger, Wittgenstein
Academic Interests
Bonhoeffer, Apologetics;
The Problem of Evil, Ethics
Courses I Teach
Old & New Testament Survey;
Life of Christ;
Basic Doctrines of the Bible;
Literature of the Intertestimental Period;
Introduction to Western Philosophy;
Logic, Ethics, Apologetics, Metaphysics;
Ancient, Medieval, Renaissance, Modern, Nineteenth Century German, and Twentieth Century Philosophy;
Philosophy of God
 
Incidentally British Empiricist Doctrine does not exclude metaphysics. For instance much was written by DesCartes, Hume, and Berkley on the causal connection which is entirely metaphysical.
 
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