Do Evangelicals reject Mary?

[Michael68]

I am not speaking for Abide With Me, just my thoughts.

Mary isn’t the center of our faith. Christ Jesus is. Our thoughts and devotion are directed solely at Him. He Alone is suffucient…as the Revelation so beautifully states about who was worthy to open the book…no one was worthy, then a Lamb that appeared to have been slaughtered stepped forward…worthy is the Lamb…He Alone is worthy of my devotion , and since the Marion dogmas are outside the realm of scripture, I have no need to embrace them.
Mary s
Points us to Him, “do what he tells you”…and because He Alone is wothy, she recedes into the background for us, Jesus Alone is worthy of our devotion, our prayers, our requests she may have know her Son better than any, but we have unedited access to her Son.

Mary is not the center of our faith. Jesus is

 

[Seekerjn316]

That shod have read “unmediated.access”

 

[Seekerjn316]

Mary is not the center of our faith. Jesus is

And for us, He alone is worthy. Marian devotions don’t enter into the picturre.

I am not.stating Catholics don’t have Jesus first, I am.stating why I do not share your belief.
D

 

[exnihilo]

I’m just considering how much emphasis and importance is put on her right now, and every Sunday for Catholics; and yet widely ignored by Paul.

The closest he comes is when he says Jesus was “Born of a woman”. I’m just baffled he never, ever expanded on one of the most important dogmas of all of Christianity.

We don’t know that this was widely ignored by Paul. All we know is that he didn’t write about it in the letters that were canonized. But this is only a problem if you assume that it was God’s will that Paul write down every doctrine in one of his letters. Paul did write that Timothy should take some wine for his health. He did take time to write in his own hand and comment on that. But I don’t think these are essential doctrines. They aren’t even doctrine at all. The Epistles aren’t pure doctrinal documents they are letters often written to address problems to existing churches. He didn’t need to reiterate all the doctrine as the recipient had already been instructed. If you take any one letter of Paul it will be missing all sorts of Christian teaching that is expressed in the Gospels or another Epistle.

 

[commenter]

I’m just considering how much emphasis and importance is put on her right now, and every Sunday for Catholics; and yet widely ignored by Paul.

The closest he comes is when he says Jesus was “Born of a woman”. I’m just baffled he never, ever expanded on one of the most important dogmas of all of Christianity.

One could point out that Paul never listed which books are in the New Testament, either.

There are many Christian dogmas, including aspects of the Trinity, that Paul did not happen to address. He was not there to summarize doctrine, he was there to enlighten readers for a particular purpose. Especially about that which people were not familiar with.

A more basic question would ask why focus on Paul as your authority, and not hundreds of other ancient Christian writers. You and I agree he is important, but why? The answer is because of the Magisterium, which chose his letters for the NT canon, and excluded the vast majority of others. The same Magisterium also identified certain Marian doctrines as true, interpreting Scripture and Sacred Tradition. And they declared Paul to be authoritative.

 

[spedteacherita]

There’s the problem. The Holy Spirit has to apply some sanctification to Jesus to keep Him free of sin. So it undermines the claim that Jesus is divine, because He needed sanctification/preservation from the Holy Spirit.

That doesn’t fly. The angel says she “will” become pregnant, not that she is pregnant. A married woman about to enter her husband’s home wouldn’t be confused about how she will get pregnant. There is nothing in Scripture that says Mary became pregnant right then. Only Catholic tradition holds that, do you ascribe to Catholic tradition?

Actually it does. It’s just not blatantly evident, but it does. All Marian doctrines are actually about Jesus. They declare His divinity.

Jesus, as divine, preserves Mary from sin, so that He is born in a pure Ark and tabernacle. Mary, as ever-Virgin, declares the truth that Jesus is God because His conception was divine and that no one has entered the gate that God has entered. Jesus saves His mother from decay and raises her into Heaven, which shows He will do the same for us. Jesus, as divine God and Davidic King, makes His mother the Queen Mother of heaven as we see foreshadowed in the OT.

He needed sanctification applied to Him if He needed to be preserved from Original Sin from Mary.

Jesus’ divinity does not depend on Mary as He was divine before becoming incarnate. He was Got and did not lose that part of Him as He became incarnate through His conception and birth.

 

[spedteacherita]

I saw a video of people in Mexico who were on their knees (walking forward on them) toward a statue of Mary. What does this mean? Why would they walk on their knees toward a statue of Mary?

Blessings,

Rita

 

[theropod]

I saw a video of people in Mexico who were on their knees (walking forward on them) toward a statue of Mary. What does this mean? Why would they walk on their knees toward a statue of Mary?

Blessings,

Rita

Despite what Catholics here will tell you, many Catholics in Latin America actually do worship Mary.

 

[zz912]

I don’t understand, which is it? You mentioned three different things the 12 could mean.

Why is it limited? Why can’t it be all three?

Do you only accept one understanding of the prophesies of the OT? Or do you understand them as applying during the time they were given AND that they also pointed towards Jesus?

 

[zz912]

I am not speaking for Abide With Me, just my thoughts.

Mary isn’t the center of our faith. Christ Jesus is. Our thoughts and devotion are directed solely at Him. He Alone is suffucient…as the Revelation so beautifully states about who was worthy to open the book…no one was worthy, then a Lamb that appeared to have been slaughtered stepped forward…worthy is the Lamb…He Alone is worthy of my devotion , and since the Marion dogmas are outside the realm of scripture, I have no need to embrace them.
Mary s
Points us to Him, “do what he tells you”…and because He Alone is wothy, she recedes into the background for us, Jesus Alone is worthy of our devotion, our prayers, our requests she may have know her Son better than any, but we have unedited access to her Son.

Jesus is the center of our faith. Please don’t attempt to insinuate otherwise.

And Christianity is not a “Jesus & Me” religion and faith. Christianity entails so much more. You cannot be Christian and reject other Christians. You cannot reject His Body. You cannot be Christian and ignore His mother. Jesus was pretty explicit about it: “Behold YOUR mother”. If you are part of the Body of Christ, if you are a brother/sister of Jesus and son/daughter of the Father, then you need to recognize His (and your) mother. This doesn’t mean worship her, but you do need to honor her.

Many people miss one of the prophesies about Mary, and I think it is vital they truly reflect on it.

Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed 35 and** a sword will pierce even your own soul-- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed**.”

I do find it funny that you fall back upon Scripture only, when you have to rely upon the Church to tell you what the Scriptures even are.

One final irony. Many don’t realize how close they are to the Islamic view of Mary when they deny her the special honor Jesus gave her. Mohammed misunderstood the Marian devotion he saw in the early Church, and also mistakenly thought Catholic worshipped Mary. That is why he erroneously thought the Trinity consisted of the Father, Son and Mary and included that error in the Koran. Many Protestants make this same error today.

 

[zz912]

Jesus’ divinity does not depend on Mary as He was divine before becoming incarnate. He was Got and did not lose that part of Him as He became incarnate through His conception and birth.

I never suggested otherwise. You totally missed my point if you thought that was what I was conveying.

 

[zz912]

I saw a video of people in Mexico who were on their knees (walking forward on them) toward a statue of Mary. What does this mean? Why would they walk on their knees toward a statue of Mary?

Blessings,

Rita

They are performing acts of penance, similar to fasting and other forms of mortification. They are rejoicing in their suffering and making up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. They are tempering their bodily desires to help them focus more on the Passion of Jesus.

Why they are going specifically there? They are going to a shrine where Mary made a supernatural appearance which led to the conversion of millions of people. They are showing their honor to God.

theropod:

Despite what Catholics here will tell you, many Catholics in Latin America actually do worship Mary.

This is a lie.

 

[zz912]

Since we are discussing the mystery of the Incarnatiin, and the Infinite and Eternal God, “He needed” to follow none of your " the Holy Sirit (Himself God),needed" , the Holy God who became incarnate COULD enter our humanity as He decided…your propositions of what had to have taken place make no sense to me, no most Evangelicals, I would dare say.

You aren’t following the logic. If God did not preserve Mary free from all sin, then she has sinful flesh. Jesus received His flesh from her. His flesh and He need to remain free of sin (not because I say so, but because of Jesus’ nature as God). So to remain free from sin, the Holy Spirit must apply some sanctification/preservation to Jesus to keep His flesh free from sin or the stain of sin.

This is a problem when you claim that Jesus is divine. Jesus, if He is God, is all pure and all holy, and needs nothing for salvation, because He doesn’t need to be saved. But yet you require the Holy Spirit to protect/sanctify Him. It’s contradictory and undermines the claim of divinity.

 

[theropod]

This is a lie.

I know how this ends. This is the part where I present evidence, and then you say they aren’t really Catholics.

Suffice it to say, in Latin America, Mary worship exists. Along with various other syncretisms and folk religion. It’s up to the observer to believe them or not when they claim to be Catholic.

The existence of such is one of the reasons many of the Reformers sought to lessen Mary’s prominence in Christianity.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I hope you will elaborate on this, as to how Evangelicals do think of her. We know she is considered as a role model for faithfulness and trust in God. What other ways have Evangelicals been blessed?

That’s a good question, Commenter, and I really appreciate the positive way in which you phrased it. I wrote a reply last night but lost it to cyber zombies (or maybe it was just the way wireless signals get lost here in rural areas…I prefer the supernatural explanation, though). I’ll write again tonight if I’m not out too late.

 

[Michael68]

Despite what Catholics here will tell you, many Catholics in Latin America actually do worship Mary.

You know this is a Catholic site right? The doctrines of the Church are upheld here. Do you have proof of this worship of Mary or are you trying to translate a picture as many Protestants do? Ie. Popes bowing, Scarlet and Purple vestments just to name a few things that that Protestants like to use pictures without knowing what is going on.

 

[HelenRose]

Despite what Catholics here will tell you, many Catholics in Latin America actually do worship Mary.

You are God and know the hearts of these people?

We recognize the gift that Christ gave us. She is His Mother. He has given her to us and she has said, “Yes”.

She shows us her Son. We love her.

Why can’t you appreciate this wonderful gift? Do you want throw away this gift saying, “Your mother is not worthy of you. Your mother is not worthy of our love. Your mother was only a womb without love, without mind, without sacrifice.”

What son would accept that?

 

[calinorth86]

This response is for my catholic brothers.Thank You for your answers but the reason I asked this question is as follows. I was at mass this past sunday and while waiting to receive the body of Christ the church choir were singing a Evangelical song. Is this ok considering they reject Mary’s perpetual Virginity. I personally think protestant songs in the church during mass keep the church from being pure in her teaching,doctrine and dogmas. My reasoning is that since the composer rejects our doctrines and dogmas about Mary, we would be hypocritical to play this song during mass or in gods church. What are everybodys thoughts am I being too harsh. Im curious to know your thoughts.

 

[HelenRose]

This response is for my catholic brothers.Thank You for your answers but the reason I asked this question is as follows. I was at mass this past sunday and while waiting to receive the body of Christ the church choir were singing a Evangelical song. Is this ok considering they reject Mary’s perpetual Virginity. I personally think protestant songs in the church during mass keep the church from being pure in her teaching,doctrine and dogmas. My reasoning is that since the composer rejects our doctrines and dogmas about Mary, we would be hypocritical to play this song during mass or in gods church. What are everybodys thoughts am I being too harsh. Im curious to know your thoughts.

If a song represents Church doctrine it really doesn’t matter who wrote it.

As a musician and a former Protestant, I can quickly recognize some of the songs which are contrary to Catholic Doctrine and I do not use them. Everyone once in awhile I will hear them sung and I cringe but that doesn’t happen very often.

There are many teachings that Protestants and Catholics share.

We may disagree on the importance of Mary in our lives but we all agree that she is the Mother of Jesus. The Church goes beyond that and recognizes that she is the Mother of God.

And Protestants do love Mary on Christmas.

 

[HelenRose]

This response is for my catholic brothers.Thank You for your answers but the reason I asked this question is as follows. I was at mass this past sunday and while waiting to receive the body of Christ the church choir were singing a Evangelical song. Is this ok considering they reject Mary’s perpetual Virginity. I personally think protestant songs in the church during mass keep the church from being pure in her teaching,doctrine and dogmas. My reasoning is that since the composer rejects our doctrines and dogmas about Mary, we would be hypocritical to play this song during mass or in gods church. What are everybodys thoughts am I being too harsh. Im curious to know your thoughts.

Hypocrisy implies deceit. There is nothing deceitful about music that is composed by a Protestant if that music reflects what Church teaches.

There are songs that are specifically written in opposition to the Church. Below is a children’s song that I learned as a child. It is a deliberate intent to counter act the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Pope, Tradition and the Magisterium.

“The B. I. B. L. E. Yes that’s the Book for me.
I stand alone on the word of God the B. I. B. L.E.”

Such songs should not be sung. There are others but I can’t bring them to mind right now.