Do Evangelicals reject Mary?

[theropod]

“The B. I. B. L. E. Yes that’s the Book for me.
I stand alone on the word of God the B. I. B. L.E.”

Such songs should not be sung. There are others but I can’t bring them to mind right now.

I’ve never heard it sung that way. I learned the song as “I stand upon the word of God”, not alone.

 

[HelenRose]

I’ve never heard it sung that way. I learned the song as “I stand upon the word of God”, not alone.

That is interesting. I am 69 and I sang that song 63 years ago.

They may have changed the words in the intervening years to make it possible for Catholic Children to sing. Or maybe we just had different books.

 

[HelenRose]

The word “alone” was stressed in the Christian Church that I grew up in. Very definitely taught that it was the Bible alone not Tradition, and most of all not the Pope.

I want to add though in defense of this Church. I learned to love the Bible.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Hypocrisy implies deceit. There is nothing deceitful about music that is composed by a Protestant if that music reflects what Church teaches.

There are songs that are specifically written in opposition to the Church. Below is a children’s song that I learned as a child. It is a deliberate intent to counter act the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Pope, Tradition and the Magisterium.

“The B. I. B. L. E. Yes that’s the Book for me.
I stand alone on the word of God the B. I. B. L.E.”

Such songs should not be sung. There are others but I can’t bring them to mind right now.

That song, from my quick research, seems to be from the early 1920’s, and therefore it’s a zillion times more likely to be in reaction to the Fundamentalist-Modernist controversy, not in reaction to Catholicism.

I keep seeing Catholics who assume songs or sayings are deliberately created to be against Catholicism, when actually they arose in response to the Fundamentalist-Modernist controversy.

 

[AbideWithMe]

You are God and know the hearts of these people?

Why can’t you appreciate this wonderful gift? Do you want throw away this gift saying, “Your mother is not worthy of you. Your mother is not worthy of our love. Your mother was only a womb without love, without mind, without sacrifice.”

What son would accept that?

How do you know the hearts of people to assume that’s what they’d be saying? I have never heard an Evangelical say they think about Mary as “only a womb without love, without mind, without sacrifice”—quite the contrary! I’ll try to show what I mean tonight.

 

[Seekerjn316]

Jesus is the center of our faith. Please don’t attempt to insinuate otherwise.

And Christianity is not a “Jesus & Me” religion and faith. Christianity entails so much more. You cannot be Christian and reject other Christians. You cannot reject His Body. You cannot be Christian and ignore His mother. Jesus was pretty explicit about it: “Behold YOUR mother”. If you are part of the Body of Christ, if you are a brother/sister of Jesus and son/daughter of the Father, then you need to recognize His (and your) mother. This doesn’t mean worship her, but you do need to honor her.

Many people miss one of the prophesies about Mary, and I think it is vital they truly reflect on it.

Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed 35 and** a sword will pierce even your own soul-- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed**.”

I do find it funny that you fall back upon Scripture only, when you have to rely upon the Church to tell you what the Scriptures even are.

One final irony. Many don’t realize how close they are to the Islamic view of Mary when they deny her the special honor Jesus gave her. Mohammed misunderstood the Marian devotion he saw in the early Church, and also mistakenly thought Catholic worshipped Mary. That is why he erroneously thought the Trinity consisted of the Father, Son and Mary and included that error in the Koran. Many Protestants make this same error today.

Again!!! I insinuated NOTHING concerning Catholic beliefs, I was stating MY BELIIF and those of my faith community. Please, remove the chip from your shoulder.

The “we gave you the Bible” statements grow tiresome. You and I look at history differently, and most likely the nature of scripture. If you’re wanting a “Thank you”, consider yourself thanked.

 

[Peter_J]

Like the title says do they reject her immaculate conception, her virginity, her assumption and our other Marian dogmas.

On my computer it comes up as “Do Evangelicals reject Mary?” I’ve tried reloading and it’s still the same.

 

[Seekerjn316]

You aren’t following the logic. If God did not preserve Mary free from all sin, then she has sinful flesh. Jesus received His flesh from her. His flesh and He need to remain free of sin (not because I say so, but because of Jesus’ nature as God). So to remain free from sin, the Holy Spirit must apply some sanctification/preservation to Jesus to keep His flesh free from sin or the stain of sin.

This is a problem when you claim that Jesus is divine. Jesus, if He is God, is all pure and all holy, and needs nothing for salvation, because He doesn’t need to be saved. But yet you require the Holy Spirit to protect/sanctify Him. It’s contradictory and undermines the claim of divinity.

Perhaps its the “logic” I do not see the Marian propisitions you put forth as necessarily "logically must follow "down your path.

I understand the “logic” of why Mary became how the Catholic Church portrays her…I don’t embrace that type of “logic”…I didn’t miss the logic…I reject the logic. I don’t see how one MUST follow the other concerning the divinity of Christ.

 

[AbideWithMe]

How do you know the hearts of people to assume that’s what they’d be saying? I have never heard an Evangelical say they think about Mary as “only a womb without love, without mind, without sacrifice”—quite the contrary! I’ll try to show what I mean tonight.

Sorry, I’m too sleepy to add anything tonight.

On my computer it comes up as “Do Evangelicals reject Mary?” I’ve tried reloading and it’s still the same.

Oh, a wise guy, eh…nyuk nyuk nyuk.

 

[zz912]

Again!!! I insinuated NOTHING concerning Catholic beliefs, I was stating MY BELIIF and those of my faith community. Please, remove the chip from your shoulder.

Fine. You didn’t mean anything else by it. Maybe it should tell you something when others besides myself read it the same way. Don’t blame your readers when they all get the wrong impression of what you wrote.

The “we gave you the Bible” statements grow tiresome. You and I look at history differently, and most likely the nature of scripture. If you’re wanting a “Thank you”, consider yourself thanked.

What history are you looking at? Who did canonize the Bible? Why? When? How? Be specific.

 

[Seekerjn316]

Fine. You didn’t mean anything else by it. Maybe it should tell you something when others besides myself read it the same way. Don’t blame your readers when they all get the wrong impression of what you wrote.

What history are you looking at? Who did canonize the Bible? Why? When? How? Be specific.

Topics for other threads

 

[Padres1969]

Obviously there is a lot of disagreement about that, as the Orthodox do not hold to this belief. Appealing to the Fathers can be tricky, and one can often find what they are looking for in them.

Hadn’t really thought about that until just now. But with the Orthodox not believing in the IC, do that Eastern Rite Catholics who came back to communion with Rome from the Orthodox world accept the IC? Particularly those Eastern Rite churches that entered communion with Rome after 1854?

 

[Peter_J]

Hadn’t really thought about that until just now. But with the Orthodox not believing in the IC, do that Eastern Rite Catholics who came back to communion with Rome from the Orthodox world accept the IC? Particularly those Eastern Rite churches that entered communion with Rome after 1854?

Well I would have to question the word “back”, as that would imply that they went from Catholic to Orthodox, and then went from Orthodox to Catholic, and sounds like a low-level anti-Orthodox polemic.

But to your question, ECs are supposed to believe in the IC. (It’s hard to improve that answer, much as I’d like to. Suffice it to say that Rome generally does not ex communicate those who don’t believe in the IC.)

 

[Tommy999]

As an evangelical Christian, in general I can say that most Protestants that I know highly regard Mary and her role as Jesus’ beloved mother, although she is mainly emphasized at Christmas-time. Most of the rest of the time the focus is on Jesus Christ and His role as the Savior of mankind and the need to be in right relationship with Him.

I can only speculate that the lack of attention the rest of the year on Mary is perhaps an overreaction to what is perceived as too much attention and veneration of her by Catholics. The veneration of Mary, if taken too far, can cross the line into adoration as if Mary were an honorary member of the blessed Trinity or something.

For example, there are processions in Latin America and elsewhere in which Virgin Mary statues and/or floats are decorated and paraded through the streets. Perhaps it is just a cultural thing, but it can be perceived that she is held as divine or near-divine by some Catholics.

Most Protestants I know want to make sure they don’t cross that line and perhaps go too far in the opposite direction. I think Mary deserves respect and honor by all Christians for saying “Yes” to bear our Lord and for loving and nurturing him throughout his earthly life, along with being there for him at the cross when he was crucified. However, I will never adore her as divine because she is* not *divine.

When some Catholics pray directly to her, it can come across as if she were omniscient and omnipresent. I’ve even heard a few Catholics say their parishes have mottos regarding prayer like “To Jesus through Mary”. When that is the case, it appears to some that she has taken on divine attributes that were only meant for God and Jesus.

I think Catholics and evangelical protestants can both agree that we should follow Virgin Mary’s own words in John 2:5, where she says in reference to Jesus, “…Do whatever he tells you.”

 

[Peter_J]

As an evangelical Christian, in general I can say that most Protestants that I know highly regard Mary and her role as Jesus’ beloved mother, although she is mainly emphasized at Christmas-time. Most of the rest of the time the focus is on Jesus Christ and His role as the Savior of mankind and the need to be in right relationship with Him.

I can only speculate that the lack of attention the rest of the year on Mary is perhaps an overreaction to what is perceived as too much attention and veneration of her by Catholics. The veneration of Mary, if taken too far, can cross the line into adoration as if Mary were an honorary member of the blessed Trinity or something.

For example, there are processions in Latin America and elsewhere in which Virgin Mary statues and/or floats are decorated and paraded through the streets. Perhaps it is just a cultural thing, but it can be perceived that she is held as divine or near-divine by some Catholics.

Most Protestants I know want to make sure they don’t cross that line and perhaps go too far in the opposite direction. I think Mary deserves respect and honor by all Christians for saying “Yes” to bear our Lord and for loving and nurturing him throughout his earthly life, along with being there for him at the cross when he was crucified. However, I will never adore her as divine because she is* not *divine.

When some Catholics pray directly to her, it can come across as if she were omniscient and omnipresent. I’ve even heard a few Catholics say their parishes have mottos regarding prayer like “To Jesus through Mary”. When that is the case, it appears to some that she has taken on divine attributes that were only meant for God and Jesus.

I think Catholics and evangelical protestants can both agree that we should follow Virgin Mary’s own words in John 2:5, where she says in reference to Jesus, “…Do whatever he tells you.”

Thank you for that post. I just want to point out that the highlighted portion cuts both ways: I’ve known plenty of Catholics who look upon how little Protestants do as a justification for how much they themselves do.

 

[Arizona_Samson]

Like the title says do they reject her immaculate conception, her virginity, her assumption and our other Marian dogmas.

No Evangelical would reject her virginity since it is an absolute truth breathed out from God.

 

[zz912]

As an evangelical Christian, in general I can say that most Protestants that I know highly regard Mary and her role as Jesus’ beloved mother, although she is mainly emphasized at Christmas-time. Most of the rest of the time the focus is on Jesus Christ and His role as the Savior of mankind and the need to be in right relationship with Him.

I can only speculate that the lack of attention the rest of the year on Mary is perhaps an overreaction to what is perceived as too much attention and veneration of her by Catholics. The veneration of Mary, if taken too far, can cross the line into adoration as if Mary were an honorary member of the blessed Trinity or something.

Mohammed came to the same incorrect conclusion and included that error in the Koran. Many don’t understand the respect given the Ark of the New Covenant.

For example, there are processions in Latin America and elsewhere in which Virgin Mary statues and/or floats are decorated and paraded through the streets. Perhaps it is just a cultural thing, but it can be perceived that she is held as divine or near-divine by some Catholics.

Then the perception is wrong. Reality is that she is being given honor. And no honor we give her can come close to the honor God has given her.

Most Protestants I know want to make sure they don’t cross that line and perhaps go too far in the opposite direction. I think Mary deserves respect and honor by all Christians for saying “Yes” to bear our Lord and for loving and nurturing him throughout his earthly life, along with being there for him at the cross when he was crucified. However, I will never adore her as divine because she is* not *divine.

You’re not telling Catholics anything new here. We know she isn’t divine.

When some Catholics pray directly to her, it can come across as if she were omniscient and omnipresent. I’ve even heard a few Catholics say their parishes have mottos regarding prayer like “To Jesus through Mary”. When that is the case, it appears to some that she has taken on divine attributes that were only meant for God and Jesus.

Then the perception is wrong. Spend some more time learning what they believe instead of making assumptions.

I think Catholics and evangelical protestants can both agree that we should follow Virgin Mary’s own words in John 2:5, where she says in reference to Jesus, “…Do whatever he tells you.”

Agreed. And I would hope that evangelicals could also follow Jesus’ words to “behold your mother”.

 

[zz912]

No Evangelical would reject her virginity since it is an absolute truth breathed out from God.

He meant perpetual virginity. And the other Marian dogmas are also absolute truth breathed out from God.

 

[spedteacherita]

No Jesus did not need saving. As the Word incarnate, is was no great feat to preserve His sinlessness.

Mary was “befuddked” because she had no relations yet with her betrothed. She knew why she should not be pregnant…she was " befuddled" because NOW she was pregnant without relations with her betrothed.

Rejection of Marian dogma does not undermine the divinity of Christ.

Jesus IS redemption and salvation. Nothing needed to be “applied” to Him, He is/was whole and complete by the very act of God becoming incarnate,

 

[Arizona_Samson]

He meant perpetual virginity.

Ah, thanks for the heads up.

And the other Marian dogmas are also absolute truth breathed out from God.

While I appreciate your zeal, what proof do you offer in support of this assertion?