Do excommunicated people automatically go to hell?

[thistle]

But we have no way of REALLY knowing who is in in a state of mortal sin right?

Only God knows the state of a person’s soul at death so we cannot say which specific individuals have been saved or not (apart from the saints we know about).

If a person dies in a state of mortal sin they go to Hell. It does not matter how good they were during their life on earth. Good works have no merit if you die in a state of mortal sin.
You do not get a second chance to repent of your mortal sins when you stand before God after death. Its too late. You destination is determined by the state of your soul at death.
Die in a state of mortal sin sends you immediately to Hell.
Die in a state of grace you are immediately saved (either straight to Heaven or more likely Purgatory first).

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

Only God knows the state of a person’s soul at death so we cannot say which specific individuals have been saved or not (apart from the saints we know about).

If a person dies in a state of mortal sin they go to Hell. It does not matter how good they were during their life on earth. Good works have no merit if you die in a state of mortal sin.
You do not get a second chance to repent of your mortal sins when you stand before God after death. Its too late. You destination is determined by the state of your soul at death.
Die in a state of mortal sin sends you immediately to Hell.
Die in a state of grace you are immediately saved (either straight to Heaven or more likely Purgatory first).

Than we not even to debate who is and who is not in a state of grace, after all the Nicene Creed says: Christ will judge the living and the dead.
And i fear that you have been adversely affected by some radical Protestant movements over the years, not in the terms of teaching but in the way the teaching are applied.
Singling out and shunning people for what you believe to be there sins, treating somebody with a conflicting opinion like an enemy of Christ, and seeking to destroy his credibility instead of gently refuting his opinion.
This is not an accusation but an observation, i am not accusing any of you of malicious intent i only say that you should at least consider the possibility of this being true for longer than a few moments.
I am not accusing you of being bad people i just believe you all to be in error.
In the terms of an honest mistake.

After all.
Matthew 1-5
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
And:
Timothy 2:24: The servant of the Lord must be gentle to all.
(Not some but all)
That being said you all in my prayers.

 

[thistle]

Than we not even to debate who is and who is not in a state of grace, after all the Nicene Creed says: Christ will judge the living and the dead.
And i fear that you have been adversely affected by some radical Protestant movements over the years, not in the terms of teaching but in the way the teaching are applied.
Singling out and shunning people for what you believe to be there sins, treating somebody with a conflicting opinion like an enemy of Christ, and seeking to destroy his credibility instead of gently refuting his opinion.
This is not an accusation but an observation, i am not accusing any of you of malicious intent i only say that you should at least consider the possibility of this being true for longer than a few moments.
I am not accusing you of being bad people i just believe you all to be in error.
In the terms of an honest mistake.

After all.
Matthew 1-5
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
And:
Timothy 2:24: The servant of the Lord must be gentle to all.
(Not some but all)
That being said you all in my prayers.

What on earth are you talking about. Who has been singled out?

We are simply stating the infallible Church teaching (which you as a Catholic must believe) that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin immediately goes to Hell.

Please tell me what error I have made??

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

What on earth are you talking about. Who has been singled out?

We are simply stating the infallible Church teaching (which you as a Catholic must believe) that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin immediately goes to Hell.

Please tell me what error I have made??

I think you have a wrong idea about heresy.
Heresy is not disagreeing with Church teaching, heresy is denying Church teaching.
And one of your Apologists said its wrong to socialize with homosexuals, which i think is a Draconian statement more fitting with the palmarian cult or a medieval inquisitor than anything.
I am not saying that they are bad people i am saying they have made an honest mistake.
And i am not saying i am right per definition, but neither are they.
What is next?
An Apologist saying the lord of the rings is sinful?
Or being a socialist is?

 

[thistle]

I think you have a wrong idea about heresy.
Heresy is not disagreeing with Church teaching, heresy is denying Church teaching.
And one of your Apologists said its wrong to socialize with homosexuals, which i think is a Draconian statement more fitting with the palmarian cult or a medieval inquisitor than anything.
I am not saying that they are bad people i am saying they have made an honest mistake.
And i am not saying i am right per definition, but neither are they.
What is next?
An Apologist saying the lord of the rings is sinful?
Or being a socialist is?

Show me where I said that.

 

[Luvtosew]

The Church teaching is very clear. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.
However, only God know the state of a person’s soul at death.

Who can be saved?

The Church teaching:

• Baptism is necessary for salvation (but does not ensure it as you must die in a state of grace).
• There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

So how can you be baptised and Catholic/deemed to be Catholic? There are 4 ways:

• Sacramental Baptism as a Catholic
• Baptism of Blood (non-Catholic dying for the Catholic Faith)
• Baptism of Desire - Explicit (e.g. a catechumen going through RCIA)
• Baptism of Desire - Implicit (invincible ignorance which means those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ, His Gospel, or His Church but still live a life according to the teachings of Christ in that ignorance)

You can debate who may or may not be included under invincible ignorance but outside the above 4 there is no salvation.

Not all Catholics go to Heaven but everyone in Heaven is Catholic.

Your kidding right???

So the church still teaches only Catholics go to heaven???

and everyone in heaven is Catholic???

 

[thistle]

Your kidding right???

So the church still teaches only Catholics go to heaven???

and everyone in heaven is Catholic???

That is correct. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. If you really are a Catholic then you are obligated to believe that.

 

[Luvtosew]

That is correct. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. If you really are a Catholic then you are obligated to believe that.

Well I don’t, and yes I’m really a Catholic. My paperwork says I am.

 

[thistle]

Well I don’t, and yes I’m really a Catholic. My paperwork says I am.

To quote your own words “heresy is denying Church teaching”!!!

 

[Pitcharan]

Your kidding right???

So the church still teaches only Catholics go to heaven???

and everyone in heaven is Catholic???

That is correct. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. If you really are a Catholic then you are obligated to believe that.

The complete teaching is this: if a catholic leaves the church to seek salvation outside, it will be a futile effort. Outside the Church, there is no salvation for Catholics.

There is no doubt that the Catholic Church is the institution established for salvation by God Himself. However, in doing so He did not forfeit Hid right to save people through other ways and means. The CC has made it very clear that followers of other religions too have access to truth and God’s will is to save all humans.

Excerpts from the
DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965
Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.

 

[JoArtist]

I say again, since it seems no one read my earlier post, Joan of Arc was excommunicated from the Church and even put to death for heresy, but not she is a ratified saint. So I think the answer is clear, if you are excommunicated, you do not automatically go to Hell.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

Show me where I said that.

I posted the an Apologist had said it, not you.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=610928

 

[Luvtosew]

To quote your own words “heresy is denying Church teaching”!!!

you got it right in that regard.

I’d hate to say to my nephew ,who was raised Catholic and an altar boy, who changed to Methodist for his wife, that his whole family is lost"

how rediculous.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

you got it right in that regard.

I’d hate to say to my nephew ,who was raised Catholic and an altar boy, who changed to Methodist for his wife, that his whole family is lost"

how rediculous.

Denying is not the same as disagreeing.

 

[Luvtosew]

Denying is not the same as disagreeing.

well if its Church teaching how am I to deny its Chruches teaching, if it is.

disagreeing is the better word then, thank you, yes I totally disagree with that Church teaching.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

well if its Church teaching how am I to deny its Chruches teaching, if it is.

disagreeing is the better word then, thank you, yes I totally disagree with that Church teaching.

I just think they have made a honest mistake one one issue, you are being over
dramatic.
I mean was it not catholic teaching that the sun revolved around the earth until they where proven wrong?

 

[Luvtosew]

I just think they have made a honest mistake one one issue, you are being over
dramatic.

maybe I am,
not unlike those with the opposite belief on this thread or unless they were just joking, and I took it wrong,
but yes it upsets me when I read that statement which I have read on other threads also.

mean was it not catholic teaching that the sun revolved around the earth until they where proven wrong?

oh was it, I don’t know.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

oh was it, I don’t know.

Galileo galilei said so and for it he was prosecuted by clergy of the church at the time.
I am not saying that i know that they are mistaken, i just think they do.
MAYBE it is my task on earth to tell them that?
But that is just a maybe.

 

[Luvtosew]

Thank you, I think they know.

 

[thistle]

well if its Church teaching how am I to deny its Chruches teaching, if it is.

disagreeing is the better word then, thank you, yes I totally disagree with that Church teaching.

You don’t seem to get it. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church is an infallible teaching. You cannot disagree with it. You MUST BELIEVE it.
The Church cannot be in error in matters of faith and morals otherwise it would mean Christ lied!!