Do Genesis 1&2 contradict each other?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richca
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
“Let there be light” refers to Jesus or the angels, depending on which Church Father you read.

Jesus is the Light of Men who existed consubstantial with the Father before anything was created so it could be Jesus.

-Tim-
Am I misunderstanding something?? Jesus was not created. Jesus was the word, and the word created the universe. If he is co-substantial with the Father, then the first act of creation can’t be referring to him, can it?

Not meaning to argue, but which church father thought the creation of light was referring to Jesus?
 
Am I misunderstanding something?? Jesus was not created. Jesus was the word, and the word created the universe. If he is co-substantial with the Father, then the first act of creation can’t be referring to him, can it?

Not meaning to argue, but which church father thought the creation of light was referring to Jesus?
Technically not a Church Father, but Tertullian seems to have thought this passage was about the eternal generation of the Son:

“[T]he Word also Himself assume[d] His own form and glorious garb, His own sound and vocal utterance, when God [said], Let there be light. This is the perfect nativity of the Word, when He proceeds forth from God— formed by Him first to devise and think out all things under the name of Wisdom.” source
 
Technically not a Church Father, but Tertullian seems to have thought this passage was about the eternal generation of the Son:

“[T]he Word also Himself assume[d] His own form and glorious garb, His own sound and vocal utterance, when God [said], Let there be light. This is the perfect nativity of the Word, when He proceeds forth from God— formed by Him first to devise and think out all things under the name of Wisdom.” source
Thank you.

I think I understand, but don’t necessarily agree with Tertullian.

Is there a more modern translation of the Fathers online? I want to check a more modern translation to see if I am understanding this the way I think I am. I have that on my kindle but it’s the same 19th century translation.
 
I disagree. God exists outside of space and time. Therefore the Creation of the Universe from beginning to end, was done by God’s spoken word perhaps even a single thought.

It may appear to us who are trapped by space and time that we “evolved” but what how does creation appears to God? I don’t have the answer to that question, but I do know that an Omniscient God knew how it would turn out. To Him creation took place once and for all, and was not an evolution.

Each of us are an individual creation of God. God is our author…we just are tinkering around trying to figure out what he did. He probably finds comic relief in our arrogance regarding how much we think we know.
 
The Cave of Treasures is a book written in the fourth century about the beginning of the world until the time of Jesus. According to this book the world had only been around for 5,500 by the time of Jesus. We are not sure who wrote it, but St Ephraim is traditionally considered the author. The Cave of Treasures is a non-biblical source that is not considered the official teachings of the Catholic Church. Although the Church does approve of it as a good book to read.

On the First day in the Cave of Treasures God created seven substances called heaven, earth, water, air, fire, angels, and darkness.

In the Latin Vulgate translation firmament is firmamentum (means of support for upper waters).
 
Thank you.

I think I understand, but don’t necessarily agree with Tertullian.

Is there a more modern translation of the Fathers online? I want to check a more modern translation to see if I am understanding this the way I think I am. I have that on my kindle but it’s the same 19th century translation.
I found a translation from 1948 and it is significantly different. For example, it uses the word “Discourse” instead of “Word,” which is not a typical term for Jesus as far as I know.

“At that point therefore Discourse also itself receives its manifestation and equipment, namely sound and voice, when God says, Let there be light. This is the complete nativity of Discourse, when it comes forth from God: it was first established by him for thought under the name of Wisdom.” source

Continuing on with the translation, it does eventually connect Discourse as another name for Jesus: “…[Discourse] was first established by him for thought under the name of Wisdom - The Lord established me as the beginning of his ways: then begotten for activity - When he prepared the heaven I was present with him: thereafter causing him to be his Father by proceeding from whom he became Son, the first-begotten as begotten before all things.” (ibid.)
 
I found a translation from 1948 and it is significantly different. For example, it uses the word “Discourse” instead of “Word,” which is not a typical term for Jesus as far as I know.

“At that point therefore Discourse also itself receives its manifestation and equipment, namely sound and voice, when God says, Let there be light. This is the complete nativity of Discourse, when it comes forth from God: it was first established by him for thought under the name of Wisdom.” source

Continuing on with the translation, it does eventually connect Discourse as another name for Jesus: “…[Discourse] was first established by him for thought under the name of Wisdom - The Lord established me as the beginning of his ways: then begotten for activity - When he prepared the heaven I was present with him: thereafter causing him to be his Father by proceeding from whom he became Son, the first-begotten as begotten before all things.” (ibid.)
Very interesting. I don’t know latin, but I wonder what the latin word being used here for the word “established.” Would it be the same word as “made”?

It’s times like these I do with I had unlimited funds to get all of these resources.
 
If you want to see a real contradiction, compare Genesis 1 with Genesis 2:

So did God create the animals and then create man or did He create man and then the animals?
The Jewish commentaries caution about events such as these being taken too literally. just as you cite. Theologically more significant is that these are created by God, and that they are not deities in themselves.

From a different starting point, the two accounts of creation are considered to represent different traditions and were placed side-by-side so as to not ignore any nuance of meaning that they present.

Many commentaries grab verses out of context, despite the many admonitions not to do so. So, here’s one such out of context quote that seems to justify the inclusion of side-by-side, even seemingly contradictory versions: here it comes

ps 62 11 Once God has spoken;
twice have I heard this:

So, God spoke once, be we heard two versions of the creation account. The Jewish commentary approach is harmonization of whatever you run across. So, you don’t lose your faith over difficulties, you accept them and look for the truth that is contained therein.

There are deep subtleties in these two versions which are too lengthy to go into here.

The rationalizations and harmonizations are very creative. In the chapter 1 creation account, the emphasis on “day” is merely a motif to rationalize the creation of the seventh day sabbath. I’ve read that a subtlety that doesn’t translate into English, is that in Gen 1, all the verses consist of 7 Hebrew words or a multiple of 7 Hebrew words, to point over and over to the 7th day sabbath. In the english, you can see some fudging to make this come out, for example, on each of the days God says that “it is good” except for one day that would mess up the underlying word count. the repetition of phrases in Gen 1 reflects a poetic structure. the word for God in Gen 1 is “elohim” (plural) which is a general term for spirits, too. But, with respect to God, it carries an emphasis that God is a judge. So, the statements of God most of the days that “it is good” is not merely an observation, it is a divine judgment.

There is a structure to the Gen 1 account. The first three days create the various domains whereas days 4 to 6 create the things that occupy the domains. And the seventh day is the day on which, loosely speaking, God rests.

I’ve been reading a series of volumes from the Jewish Publication Society titled “Outside of Scripture: Jewish writings of the Second Temple Period” These are not considered canonical today. I’m less than halfway through the 3300 pages. The writings in this monumental work are in the genre of “creatively rewritten scripture”, where in a lot of difficulties like the ones in the OP are dealt with, often by rewriting and omitting the difficult issues in the Hebrew. Its rare occasions like this when I get a chance to relay some of this to unsuspecting readers.

But, these are serious attempts to overcome the difficulties noted by the OP, which were recognized thousands of years ago. And, by necessity, they often involve adding a lot of material that is not in the canonical version of the text.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top