Do guardian angels get reassigned to another human when we die?

[NeedImprovement]

You guys have a sense of humour…good stuff

I’ve read so much on angels (much less on angles) that I can’t remember where I read that the guardian angel is only assigned to one soul… not reassigned so to speak…that’s how much God loves us (sorry I can’t recall the reference).

In Janice Connell’s “Meetings With Mary” (Ballantine Books 1995) she discusses the events occuring in Akita Japan (in a convent in Yuzawadai on the outskirts) between 1973 to 1984. It involved Marian apparitons and among other phenomena the appearance of Sister Agnes Sasagawa’s guardian Angel to her on several occasions.

She writes that, " The Bishop of the diocese has approved the apparitions and messages of Akita as worthy of belief. He has solemnly recognized their supernatural character after mature reflection and detailed examination."

Here is a short excerpt from Sister Agnes’ first visual encounter with her guardian Angel:

“…At that moment Sister Agnes saw a huge angel, radiant with white light. She remembers that she prayed fervently as she followed the angel to the chapel. Before entering, Sister Agnes asked, ‘Who are you?’ . The angel responded: " I*** am your Guardian Angel. I am assigned to you from all eternity to guide you and care for you.***…”

 

[NeedImprovement]

The Bible talks about angles? I missed that part somehow.

Nehemiah Chapter 3:30-31

30
After him, Hananiah, son of Shelemiah, and Hanun, the sixth son of Zalaph, repaired the adjoining sector; after them, Meshullam, son of Berechiah, repaired the place opposite his own lodging.
31
After him, Malchijah, a member of the goldsmiths’ guild, carried out the work of repair as far as the quarters of the temple slaves and the merchants, before the Gate of Inspection and as far as the upper chamber of the Angle.

For more, one could always consult 2 Kings 20:8-11

 

[Feedmysheep]

She writes that, " The Bishop of the diocese has approved the apparitions and messages of Akita as worthy of belief. He has solemnly recognized their supernatural character after mature reflection and detailed examination."

Here is a short excerpt from Sister Agnes’ first visual encounter with her guardian Angel:

“…At that moment Sister Agnes saw a huge angel, radiant with white light. She remembers that she prayed fervently as she followed the angel to the chapel. Before entering, Sister Agnes asked, ‘Who are you?’ . The angel responded: " I*** am your Guardian Angel. I am assigned to you from all eternity to guide you and care for you.***…”

All that aside, the Church teaches that private revelations are just that- private. the Faithful in no way are bound to believe in them. Public revelation, that which all the Faithful are bound to believe, ended with the last Apostle.

I’m not saying one way or another the duration angels get assigned to us, I’m just saying that you can’t use private revelation, even approved private revelation, as Church teachings.

 

[NeedImprovement]

All that aside, the Church teaches that private revelations are just that- private. the Faithful in no way are bound to believe in them. Public revelation, that which all the Faithful are bound to believe, ended with the last Apostle.

I’m not saying one way or another the duration angels get assigned to us, I’m just saying that you can’t use private revelation, even approved private revelation, as Church teachings.

Agreed…so we don’t really **have to **believe
in Fatima, Lourdes, or any other Church approved apparitions - do we…? However it would seem more beneficial to me personally to accept some of the Church approved apparitions on faith at one point or another, especially where the Blessed Mother is involved.

Does anyone pray the Fatima prayer, that the angel taught the children concerning the Blessed Sacrament ? (I don’t believe we’re bound to use the word “allegedly” once the church has approved it ).

As previous posts have indicated we could also take Jesus’ word for it that Guardian Angels exist (Matthew 18:10).

Concerning Church approved apparitions, correct me if I’m wrong (wouldn’t be the first time) but doesn’t the Church also teach that if we believe in an apparition which should later turn out to be false we should still receive the same merit as if the apparition had been authentic ?

The boldface comment posted, “I am your Guardian Angel, I am assigned to you from all eternity to guide you and care for you.”, is in complete conformity with what the catholic Church teaches about Guardian Angels.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Agreed…so we don’t really **have to **believe
in Fatima, Lourdes, or any other Church approved apparitions - do we…?

They have been determined to be worthy of veneration. But we are not bound to anything from the revelation. Not daily recitation of the Rosary, not wearing the Brown Scapular, not devotion to Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal. None of it.

However it would seem more beneficial to me personally to accept some of the Church approved apparitions on faith at one point or another, especially where the Blessed Mother is involved.

Here you have my total agreement. But the fact remains, it is not required of us. Beneficial? Certainly. An obligation? Nope.

Does anyone pray the Fatima prayer, that the angel taught the children concerning the Blessed Sacrament ? (I don’t believe we’re bound to use the word “allegedly” once the church has approved it ).

Every time I say my Rosary, as Our Lady requested.

As previous posts have indicated we could also take Jesus’ word for it that Guardian Angels exist (Matthew 18:10).

What Jesus revealed to us during the Incarnation is part of public revelation, and the faithful are bound to believe it. What Jesus reveals to us in the Gospels is different from what He revealed in a private revelation, such as those to St. Faustina.
Again, public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle, St. John the Beloved.

Concerning Church approved apparitions, correct me if I’m wrong (wouldn’t be the first time) but doesn’t the Church also teach that if we believe in an apparition which should later turn out to be false we should still receive the same merit as if the apparition had been authentic ?

I’m not aware of this, as I can’t imagine a Church approved apparition turning out to be false, but I do know that until an apparition is approved, any devotions or pilgrimages are only to be made on an individual basis, not as a Church-sponsored group. And if the Church investigates an apparition and declares it false, all devotion to it should cease.

The boldface comment posted, “I am your Guardian Angel, I am assigned to you from all eternity to guide you and care for you.”, is in complete conformity with what the catholic Church teaches about Guardian Angels.

No. The Church hasn’t ruled whether or not an angel’s assignment ends with its charge’s final judgement. That’s the whole point of this thread.

Each person is assigned a guardian angel=public revelation (see Matthew 18:10), which the faithful are bound to believe.

That angel remains with the person for all eternity, even after the person has gone to Heaven or Hell= nothing in public revelation, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, the Magisterium, the Catechism, nothing. Thus, the faithful can speculate one way or another.

So you are completely fine in your speculation that an angel is assigned to a person forever, but no one else has to agree, no matter what private revelation has revealed.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Thanks for the most recent post Feedmysheep. I have a better idea of where you’re coming from now. Always glad to discover another who prays the Rosary (I do wear the brown Scapular too).

I think you might be misreading something or perhaps we each have a different concept of something.

The staement of the Angel is from all eternity not for all eternity.

God is eternal. We believe that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have coexisted with God the Father from all eternity. Eternity can’t be adequately expressed in terms of time, it’s kind of like trying to express the ocean in a glass of water.

The choice of the fallen angels was one eternal irrevocable act because they were fully aware of the consequences of their actions. We poor humans (said Blaise Pascal) cannot bear very much reality at once… so we live a sequence of moments (also known as “time”); whereas I’ve heard several writers refer to Heaven as the eternal “now” - (this last one - a concept I confess I only partially comprehend as of yet).

To say an Angel is appointed from all eternity, to me implies that the Angel was appointed by God, or (I find this a difficult concept because it also is expressed in failing human words) that God appointed that Angel to that soul “before the beginning of time and ages beyond” ( I believe was the way Fr. John Corapi described it).

What happens after our death, as you say has not been definitively taught ( too bad, I’d read some beautiful stories of Guardian Angels and their charges in Purgatory too).

My search skills are lacking but the part in my post about the merit of believing an apparition even should it turn out to be false, didn’t imply ones already “authenticated” by Holy Mother church; it may have been one of the saints (Aquinas ?) who said it.
I’ll let you know if I find something.

 

[Feedmysheep]

The staement of the Angel is from all eternity not for all eternity.

I considered the same thing after I’d posted.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Always glad to discover another who prays the Rosary (I do wear the brown Scapular too).

I hope you realize that the scapular itself is not a charm and imparts no special grace or blessings on the wearer whatsoever. The Brown Scapular is only an outward sign of our devotion to the Carmelite Community spirituality and worn together with this devotion becomes one of the most powerful sacramentals, if not the highest sacramental, in the entire Church. There are rumors going about that the Carmelites are considering prohibiting the sale of the scapulars since it has taken on a cult status among those not officially spiritually joined to the Carmelites and not following the spiritual devotion. I am a secular 3rd order Carmelite and it takes about 1 year to even get formed for discernment into the order. The confraternities are not as rigorous and if the devotional prayers are not said the promise are not in force. Also, St. Benedict’s jubilee medal is probably #2 and the Miraculous Medal is right up there. Again - there is a devotion associated with the sacramentals.

Back on topic - Guardian Angels are of course with us for all eternity since all in heaven join in the beatific vision and are participants in the communion of the saints. So our guardian angel is with us from the moment we are born through all eternity )assuming we dont’ become apostate. The church does not explicitly teach this but its clear from the most elementary logic. Also our guardian angels are with us in purgatory to give us encouragement even though once in purgatory we can gain no more merit and are fixed forever at whatever spiritual growth we were able to merit while alive.

Also, I want to convey that its entirely possible God has assigned more than one guardian angel to us and some of us tough cases have more than one.

James

 

[NeedImprovement]

Sorry James, I’m not quite getting where I conveyed that idea to you?

Maybe because I only mentioned the Scapular in passing to try and stick with the subject of the thread ?..

I’m enrolled in the Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.I take my sacramentals very seriously. If you knew how much I depend on our Blessed Mother you might try to dilute the suggestively presumptuous flavor of the intro to your post,

As far as what you posted on Guardian Angels, I believe exactly the same as you posted.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Back on topic - Guardian Angels are of course with us for all eternity since all in heaven join in the beatific vision and are participants in the communion of the saints. So our guardian angel is with us from the moment we are born through all eternity )assuming we dont’ become apostate. The church does not explicitly teach this but its clear from the most elementary logic. Also our guardian angels are with us in purgatory to give us encouragement even though once in purgatory we can gain no more merit and are fixed forever at whatever spiritual growth we were able to merit while alive.

Hmmm…how wonderful it must be to enjoy the powers of logic that escape Holy Mother Church.

 

[jmcrae]

The Bible talks about angles? I missed that part somehow.

My brother (who is a scientist) sings “Angles We Have Heard on High” at Christmas time.

 

[NeedImprovement]

My brother (who is a scientist) sings “Angles We Have Heard on High” at Christmas time.

…That’s a different angle!..

 

[CentralFLJames]

Sorry James, I’m not quite getting where I conveyed that idea to you?

Maybe because I only mentioned the Scapular in passing to try and stick with the subject of the thread ?..

I’m enrolled in the Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.I take my sacramentals very seriously. If you knew how much I depend on our Blessed Mother you might try to dilute the suggestively presumptuous flavor of the intro to your post,

As far as what you posted on Guardian Angels, I believe exactly the same as you posted.

I forgot where - so I went back and reread all your posts and came up with this one:

They have been determined to be worthy of veneration. But we are not bound to anything from the revelation. Not daily recitation of the Rosary, not wearing the Brown Scapular, not devotion to Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal. None of it.

Somehow the tone of this taken together with other bits gave me the impression you were diminishing the various devotions and venerations.

Based on your conveyance that you are enrolled (in the confraternity) I apologize since clearly you do take your sacramentals seriously if you are performing the daily reading of the Liturgy of the Hours at morning and evening or performing the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Sorry.

BTW - my Guardian Angle is bigger and better than your Guardian Angel.

Kidding…

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Hmmm…how wonderful it must be to enjoy the powers of logic that escape Holy Mother Church.

Sarcasm? For the record I am part of Holy Mother Church and what little I can contribute I contribute as a member not in opposition but in union with her.

The Church is infallible in her dogmatic teaching and we laity should recognize that she does not always give us all the final and many implied teachings that extend through logic from the dogma and CCC. That is less a deficiency of logic as it is an attempt to be pragmatic and concise.

It would take super computers to integrate all the Catholic teaching with all implied exegesis. As well it would take a publishing miracle to get all the secondary inferred teaching truth to fit in one reasonably small book of Catholic Catechism that would take less than a few years for the average person to read through. The irony is the Church in its deposit of faith and vast Vatican libraries and universities is in possession of much more truth than anyone probably realizes. The CCC is only what is essential to our faith. So publishing every nuance under one comprehensive teaching would leave us with too much for anyone person to read much less carry. It would also give anti-Catholics more reason to say that Catholicism is too complicated and not simple enough for the average person to comprehend. And given the competing one liner Protestant teaching of “Jesus saves” I can see why Mother Church tries to make the CCC as lean as theologically possible to insure that “no Christian is left behind”; not even those who want to rapture up early ahead of Catholics.

James

 

[NeedImprovement]

I forgot where - so I went back and reread all your posts and came up with this one:

Somehow the tone of this taken together with other bits gave me the impression you were diminishing the various devotions and venerations.

Based on your conveyance that you are enrolled (in the confraternity) I apologize since clearly you do take your sacramentals seriously if you are performing the daily reading of the Liturgy of the Hours at morning and evening or performing the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Sorry.

BTW - my Guardian Angle is bigger and better than your Guardian Angel.

Kidding…

James

I take back what I said about suggestive presumptuousness James - I’m not Feedmysheep - I’m NeedImprovement. Now I understand how you could’ve thought that way but,

“They have been determined to be worthy of veneration. But we are not bound to anything from the revelation. Not daily recitation of the Rosary, not wearing the Brown Scapular, not devotion to Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal. None of it.”

…wasn’t my post - it was Feedmysheep’s, who incidentally has a vibrant sense of humour. Apology accepted but not warranted due to a misunderstanding.

As regards prayer obligations to enrollment, I even went to the point of memorizing Morning and Evening prayer for the office for the dead so that I could try and say it almost anywhere … unfortunaely I’m still living up to my user name in that respect…my spiritual director told me not to forget that my apostolate (pastoral- non-ordained w/sick and dying) was also a constant prayer.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Sarcasm? For the record I am part of Holy Mother Church and what little I can contribute I contribute as a member not in opposition but in union with her.

The Church is infallible in her dogmatic teaching and we laity should recognize that she does not always give us all the final and many implied teachings that extend through logic from the dogma and CCC. That is less a deficiency of logic as it is an attempt to be pragmatic and concise.

It would take super computers to integrate all the Catholic teaching with all implied exegesis. As well it would take a publishing miracle to get all the secondary inferred teaching truth to fit in one reasonably small book of Catholic Catechism that would take less than a few years for the average person to read through. The irony is the Church in its deposit of faith and vast Vatican libraries and universities is in possession of much more truth than anyone probably realizes. The CCC is only what is essential to our faith. So publishing every nuance under one comprehensive teaching would leave us with too much for anyone person to read much less carry. It would also give anti-Catholics more reason to say that Catholicism is too complicated and not simple enough for the average person to comprehend. And given the competing one liner Protestant teaching of “Jesus saves” I can see why Mother Church tries to make the CCC as lean as theologically possible to insure that “no Christian is left behind”; not even those who want to rapture up early ahead of Catholics.

James

Then I’m sincerely interested- why do you assume, what logic do you use to come up with the decision that a guardian angel is assigned to one person for all eternity?

In all honesty, I have no vested interest in one answer or another. But I’m curious about how you’ve come to a clear decision.

p.s. as as side note, I don’t for a moment think that the CC does or does not do things based on what Protestants may think of us:

The CCC is only what is essential to our faith. So publishing every nuance under one comprehensive teaching would leave us with too much for anyone person to read much less carry. It would also give anti-Catholics more reason to say that Catholicism is too complicated and not simple enough for the average person to comprehend.

(emphasis mine)

 

[CentralFLJames]

Then I’m sincerely interested- why do you assume, what logic do you use to come up with the decision that a guardian angel is assigned to one person for all eternity?

In all honesty, I have no vested interest in one answer or another. But I’m curious about how you’ve come to a clear decision.

p.s. as as side note, I don’t for a moment think that the CC does or does not do things based on what Protestants may think of us: (emphasis mine)

I started writing a long explanation but frankly got tired of writing and abandoned it since it is really not important in the grand scheme of things. I want to clarify that our guardian angel does not “belong to us” but is associated with us in an immutable way in the same way that Jesus remains Mary’s son, and Joseph remains Jesus’ foster father and the apostles as a group remain “the apostles” and close comrades. But we are all united as one Holy Family of God and have unobstructed access to each other through the beatific vision to the degree that each soul can participate based on its spiritual capacity and spiritual rewards given in heaven. It is only natural to assume that our guardian angels are given tremendous honors for delivering us safely to heaven and it would be unthinkable to imagine that our angle’s would not choose to retain a special relationship since they are after all good friends and family and we were the instruments by which they will gain heavenly honors.

As for the PS comment. I doubt too that the CCC is really written with any serious consideration for Protestant objections (except in the choice of words used in the areas specifically speaking about our “seperated brothers” and their relationship to The Church). But I am reasonably certain that the CCC is published with at last a guiding principal centered on keeping it as concise and brief as possible without glossing over any important teachings or concepts.

James

 

[Feedmysheep]

It is only natural to assume that our guardian angels are given tremendous honors for delivering us safely to heaven and it would be unthinkable to imagine that our angle’s would not choose to retain a special relationship since they are after all good friends and family and we were the instruments by which they will gain heavenly honors.

heehee- more angles.

That aside, I lose your thought train somewhere between angels being afforded honors for delivering us to heaven (do they get “in trouble” if we end up in Hell, I wonder?), and a jump to an exclusive relationship with us.

I see no reason to think that my guardian angel’s relationship with me would be any less special if he had also guarded, and had a friendship with, any number of other charges. The amount of people he tended to wouldn’t in any way diminish the nature of our communion once in Heaven.

I know, I know, we’ve now turned this poor thread into something that should be flung into the depths of the Philosophy section (which I studiously avoid) and are also in danger of making it a “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin”-type farce.

So, unless you do feel like typing out that missive, I’m happy saying that we’ll just have to wait to find out.

 

[CentralFLJames]

heehee- more angles.

That aside, I lose your thought train somewhere between angels being afforded honors for delivering us to heaven (do they get “in trouble” if we end up in Hell, I wonder?), and a jump to an exclusive relationship with us.

I see no reason to think that my guardian angel’s relationship with me would be any less special if he had also guarded, and had a friendship with, any number of other charges. The amount of people he tended to wouldn’t in any way diminish the nature of our communion once in Heaven.

I know, I know, we’ve now turned this poor thread into something that should be flung into the depths of the Philosophy section (which I studiously avoid) and are also in danger of making it a “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin”-type farce.

So, unless you do feel like typing out that missive, I’m happy saying that we’ll just have to wait to find out.

Oh I hate that spelling error! I have been doing that ever since I took trig as a youngster and was a failed product of the great phonetically spelling experiment that we Catholics were guinea pigs for in my time…

For the record I am not claiming our guardian angels are given an exclusive relationship. They retain their membership in the choir of angels and have angelic relationships there. I am just saying that our guardian angels are forever linked to us through a relational bond that is “special”.

We don’t have a lot of scriptural support to go on to get to a deep exegesis. I form most of my understandings on what I have read from revelations of saints and from projecting some relational principals that appear to hold both in heaven and earth. As for what happens if we end up in hell - well that would clearly not bring our GA honor and glory nor would it be his fault since God does not normally give the GA permission to over-assert his influence against our free will once our mind is set on a particular course of action. The GA is principally concerned with keeping demonic beings from taking advantage of our weaker human nature and assailing our senses and reason with supernatural advantage. My readings have told me that 1/'3 of the fallen angels are in hell inflicting punishments on the damned (and I presume each other) and the remaining 2/3’s are here on earth in spiritual form roaming around opportunistically looking for souls in a state of weakness and preoccupation with worldly concerns that are not cooperating with God’s grace or are in a progressive pattern of sin and are thus vulnerable to being provoked or enticed into greater sin and bringing others of their family or friends also into sin.

Enough said for now…

James

 

[Muzhik]

Does anyone pray the Fatima prayer, that the angel taught the children concerning the Blessed Sacrament ? (I don’t believe we’re bound to use the word “allegedly” once the church has approved it ).

I think the prayer NeedImprovement means is this one:

***Oh Most Holy Trinity,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
I adore Thee profoundly.
I offer Thee the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity
of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world,
in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and
indifferences by which He is offended.
By the infinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus
and the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
I beg the conversion of poor sinners.

Amen.***

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