Do guardian angels really exist?

[Vince1022]

See post #16. Just because the term “guardian” is not added to the scripture does not mean it isn’t the same. Even a blind fool, like me, can see it in context here:

Yes, individuals are free to read many things into Scripture as long as such does not contradict dogma/doctrine. So your interpretation is fine…it’s just that it’s not an interpretation required by the Catholic Church.

 

[Vince1022]

True…

A lot of people seem to think that the entire CCC needs to be taken completely literally, word per word, and is the 100% truth with no fallibility. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of what is written in the CCC changes periodically… and it has. From that, one can only conclude that a lot of what the CCC states is not THE WORD. A lot of it is, but a lot of it isn’t.

Great posts, Debora and David. Thanks.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Yes, individuals are free to read many things into Scripture as long as such does not contradict dogma/doctrine. So your interpretation is fine…it’s just that it’s not an interpretation required by the Catholic Church.

well, I believe simply because I saw an angle and just assumed it was mine. It was not what you’d expect to see. It was very strange, a life changing event and scared me after saving me. It was a very profound experience, one that no one is required to believe of course, but one that not even the Holy Father could convince me was false. I know what I saw and what it did for me. What I didn’t understand was why. That seems to be unfolding as we speak. God has a plan for all of us and he’s showing me mine. I never told anyone about it until recently because it sounded crazy. But then I’ve heard our pastor describe many other people’s and one of his tome personally. I’ve been blessed with many signs that could only be from God or my psychosis.

 

[Debora123]

Let’s not confuse the difference between the language around an idea changing and the idea itself changing.

I am sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken here, but the CCC is the infallible dogma.

Language may change, but the dogma that is there does not.

No, there have been certain ideas they’ve def changed. For example, they completely took out the idea of limbo.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Let’s not confuse the difference between the language around an idea changing and the idea itself changing.

I am sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken here, but the CCC is the infallible dogma.

Language may change, but the dogma that is there does not.

The CCC is not infallible, but we are to read it with the sense of infallibility since the bishops worked to make it correct. The problem is that sometimes the language gets botched up and so an update is required. We’re not at liberty to pick and choose what we want from the CCC. If we are to believe, then we are to believe. To not believe is to say we are not in communion with the Holy See. At least that’s the way I understand it.

 

[Debora123]

The CCC is not infallible, but we are to read it with the sense of infallibility since the bishops worked to make it correct.

It kinda bothers me that the CCC is not infallible yet we are supposed to live by it word per word, as though it were. And why exactly? You say because “the bishops worked to make it correct?”

I dunno if I like the sound of that…

 

[EricFilmer]

The question here isn’t whether or not angels exist - I know they do, and I know they look over us like everything else heavenly. But does the Church actually officially teach that each individual person has a specifically assigned guardian angel?

Hey Debora,

I just skimmed through the four pages of this thread and, unless I missed it, I think I can contribute something to the discussion that has not been brought up.

In addition to the Catechism (which others have already quoted) the Church also uses the liturgy to teach us various aspects of our faith.

You have stated that you believe in the existence of angels, but the question at hand is whether or not there truly are angels who are assigned to each person, a.k.a, guardian angels. In the liturgy of the Church, we see that there are two feast days assigned to honor angels. Sept. 29 is the Feast of the Archangels, and Oct. 2 is the Memorial of the Guardian Angels. So angels who are specifically guardian angels have their very own feast day. Naturally, the Church would not have guardian angels remembered and honored in the liturgy if their existence was not firmly established as a teaching of the Faith.

 

[11th_hour]

Matt 18:10 - "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

It certainly seems that Christ was saying that people have their own angels.

 

[vz71]

It kinda bothers me that the CCC is not infallible yet we are supposed to live by it word per word, as though it were. And why exactly? You say because “the bishops worked to make it correct?”

I dunno if I like the sound of that…

I would not draw the conclusion on the basis of the one post.
Particularly one from someone that is not a Catholic themselves.

I am still researching the issue myself. I would encourage you to do the same.

 

[PbloPicasso]

It kinda bothers me that the CCC is not infallible yet we are supposed to live by it word per word, as though it were. And why exactly? You say because “the bishops worked to make it correct?”

I dunno if I like the sound of that…

When it all boils down to it we are required to follow the authority of the Church. It would be best to research the topic more completely for your own sake. But please understand that I am a revert and had to swallow my pride on this issue even though what happened to me prior to leaving was gravely sinful. It cost me my vocation to the priesthood. When clergy abuse their authority much havoc is sewn within the ranks. But both of these issues are covered very clearly in scripture. It was becoming more fundamentally Christian by reading bible in depth that I realized.

 

[Vince1022]

The CCC is not infallible, but we are to read it with the sense of infallibility since the bishops worked to make it correct. .

No, we are not to read it with the sense of infallibility. The Church does not expect nor require such.

We should read it as authoritative and truthful.

 

[PbloPicasso]

No, we are not to read it with the sense of infallibility. The Church does not expect nor require such.

We should read it as authoritative and truthful.

Duh, you used different words the mean the same thing. Just thought I’d try to dig that spec out of your eye in the same manner you tried to remove mine.

 

[Vince1022]

Duh, you used different words the mean the same thing. Just thought I’d try to dig that spec out of your eye in the same manner you tried to remove mine.

“Infallibility” has a very specific meaning according to Catholic teaching. I was not trying to dig any spec out of anyone’s eye.

What do you think the Catholic Church means regarding infallibility?

And, back to your post, do you think everything in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is infallibly taught? If so, why?

 

[PbloPicasso]

“Infallibility” has a very specific meaning according to Catholic teaching. I was not trying to dig any spec out of anyone’s eye.

What do you think the Catholic Church means regarding infallibility?

And, back to your post, do you think everything in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is infallibly taught? If so, why?

The love boat, promises everyone. The level of you upset is quite revealing. Let me guess, you have a difficult time making friends, in real life or you have an alternate ego that lingers on boards to vent your anger. Find another child to take candy away from. Hmm, get over it. move on, Mr. I never get anything wrong or say something that is ambiguous. I think your talking gibber jabber now trying to split hairs. Good future for you somewhere I’m sure.

 

[Vince1022]

The love boat, promises everyone. The level of you upset is quite revealing. Let me guess, you have a difficult time making friends, in real life or you have an alternate ego that lingers on boards to vent your anger. Find another child to take candy away from. Hmm, get over it. move on, Mr. I never get anything wrong or say something that is ambiguous. I think your talking gibber jabber now trying to split hairs. Good future for you somewhere I’m sure.

Thanks. That helps. I think I understand now.

 

[fegbdf]

About 25 years ago I was driving home from work on a clear night
and an inner voice started telling me to look up over and over
again, so I did and above the car was an Angel just plain as ever.Every time I looked up the Angel was still there for about
2 minutes and then disappeared. I drove to my best friends’ house
and told him but We never spoke of it again until this week.
I never had any other visions in my life ever. I just when on with my life until today

 

[Debora123]

The love boat, promises everyone. The level of you upset is quite revealing. Let me guess, you have a difficult time making friends, in real life or you have an alternate ego that lingers on boards to vent your anger. Find another child to take candy away from. Hmm, get over it. move on, Mr. I never get anything wrong or say something that is ambiguous. I think your talking gibber jabber now trying to split hairs. Good future for you somewhere I’m sure.

Hey, that was mean!

 

[Vouthon]

I think that some people have misunderstood the concept of “Guardian Angels”…

It IS a revealed truth of faith, an article of faith, that EVERY BELIEVER (CHRISTIAN) HAS A GUARDIAN ANGEL

IT IS NOT A TRUTH OF FAITH THAT EVERY “PERSON” HAS A GUARDIAN ANGEL BUT ST JEROME SAID THAT THIS IS THE “MIND” OF THE CHURCH AND JESUS AT LEAST CONFIRMS THAT ALL CHILDREN HAVE GUARDIAN ANGELS - I DOUBT THEN THAT THEY WILL ABANDON THEM AT PUBERTY SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY AREN’T CHRISTIANS!

Nobody thus has a “right” NOT to believe in Guardian Angels, since it is a clearly defined belief.

They do have a right though to believe that only Christians have Guardian Angels. That is the “dogma” so to speak.

In the Orthodox Church, it is a dogma that ALL believers are “joined” to their Guardian Angel at baptism. Orthodoxy believes that a guardian angel is given at baptism. And that this angel has similarities to the person its entrusted to protect (acts 12.14-15).

In Catholicism, we take a more “wider” approach. We agree with the Orthodox that ALL Christians have Guardian Angels (dogmatic belief) but believe (not dogmatically) that all people have Guardian Angels at birth as well.

People have GROSSLY misunderstood this phrase from the (dated) Catholic Encloepedia:

**That every individual soul has a guardian angel has never been defined by the Church, and is, consequently, not an article of faith; but it is the “mind of the Church”, as St. Jerome expressed it: “how great the dignity of the soul, since each one has from his birth an angel commissioned to guard it.” (Comm. in Matt., xviii, lib. II). **

The key is “every”. The encloepedia is not denying that all Christians have Guardian Angels, which is clearly a part of Sacred Tradition or else we would not liturgically venerate them in the liturgy with a feast day!

It is a dogma from Jesus in the Gospels that:

• ALL children have Guardian Angels

It is a dogma from the Bible (ie Hebrews, Tobit, Acts) and Sacred Tradition that:

• ALL believers have guardian angels

This means that:

• Guardian Angels are a “dogma” of faith

But we do not know if EVERY PERSON irrespective of faith, has a Guardian Angel. This cannot be “afffirmed” from Scripture or Sacred Tradition.

However Catholic theologians and saints have done the math:

If all children have Guardian Angels, it is VERY unlikely - nay impossible - that this bond of love would cease simply because the person is not a Christian. Indeed, I should say that many non-Christians should have greater need of their Guardian Angels!

The traditional Orthodox view thus has problems, which the Catholic view does not. Some of the Fathers, indeed I would say the majority, clearly teach that all people have Guardian Angels. Jesus affirmed that all children do, so this would seem to go against the Orthodox belief that we receive Guardian Angels at baptism and support the Catholic “belief” (although not dogma) that ALL people have Guardian Angels.

Orthodox theologians such as Sergius Bulgakov have got around this dilemna by teaching that:

• all people have guardian angels from conception
• but they are joined to us in a special way at baptism

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Bible, Sacred Tradition and the liturgy all affirm that:

"… Beside each believer stands an angel as protector and shepherd leading him to life…"

To use the words of the Catechism.

If any Catholic disbelieves this - based upon a faulty understanding of a Catholic encloepedia article - then I would suggest that they are denying a dogma of faith and basically should change their mind quickly!

 

[followingtheway]

So I know this isn’t really the right place for this question because it’s not a matter of morality, but I couldn’t find where else to post it. I do apologize.

I was wondering - is the idea that each person has her/his own guardian angel official Catholic teaching? Or is it just something we tell kids to SYMBOLIZE the fact that there is a higher power constantly looking over us?

The question here isn’t whether or not angels exist - I know they do, and I know they look over us like everything else heavenly. But does the Church actually officially teach that each individual person has a specifically assigned guardian angel?

Yes.

God bless :byzsoc:

David

 

[Vouthon]

As the “Angels” section of the website “Catholic Online” explains:

*Who are our Guardian Angels?
No evil shall befall you, nor shall affliction come near your tent, for to His Angels God has given command about you, that they guard you in all your ways. Upon their hands they will bear you up, lest you dash your foot against a stone.
Psalm 91: 10-12 A heavenly spirit assigned by God to watch over each of us during our lives. The doctrine of angels is part of the Church’s tradition. The role of the guardian angel is both to guide us to good thoughts, works and words, and to preserve us from evil. Since the 17th century the Church has celebrated a feast honoring them in October throughout the Universal Church. Since the last calendar revision this feast is Oct 2.

He has charged His angels with the ministry of watching and safeguarding every one of His creatures that behold not His face. Kingdoms have their angels assigned to them, and men have their angels; these latter it is to whom religion designates the Holy Guardian Angels. Our Lord says in the Gospel, “Beware lest ye scandalize any of these little ones, for their angels in heaven see the face of My Father.” The existence of Guardian Angels, is, hence a dogma of the Christian faith: this being so, what ought not our respect be for that sure and holy intelligence that is ever present at our side; and how great our solicitude be, lest, by any act of ours, we offend those eyes which are ever bent upon us in all our ways!*

In the context, “these little ones” could either apply to those who believe in Him (v. 6) or it could refer to the little children (vs. 3-5).

The Church has tended to opt for the former. This is why the Orthodox Church believes that “ALL Christians” have a Guardian Angel.

I think that both are inferred her ie children and believers.

However the former is stronger because Jesus said just above this in verse 6:

" 6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble"

It would thus appear that he probably means “believers”.

Scripture thus only affirms that Christians have Guardian Angels. However the ambiguity over whether this refers to “believers” or “children”, opens the possibility if the latter that Jesus explicitly teaches that ALL PEOPLE have Guardian Angels.

Even if this is not the case, Jesus seems to be implicitly suggesting here that all people have Guardian Angels, and the understanding of the Church has largely confirmed this, even though its not dogmatic like the belief in Gurdian Angels itself for “at least” believers.