Do hardcore Protestant think the Catholic Church are Anti-Bible?

[Mommyof02green]

What is a “hard core” Protestant?
What is a “hard core” Catholic?

I just took it to mean someone that “cares” and is “active” in his/her faith: They go to church regularly, read the bible regularly, pray regularly, and perhaps do some bible study and/or volunteer work for their parish.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Thanks for responding.

Hardcore Protestant and Hardcore Catholics are those who practice and defend their faith against false truth, and heresy. He or she also live by his or her faith, like attend Church, and obey the commandments as God commanded us.

Defining these terms can vary. Some hardcore like extremist may put the teachings of the Bible or the Catholic Church to the extreme… which itself can be dangerous.

This is another form of topic though, so I do thanks for responding from Non-Catholic Christians give their opinions of this matter.

 

[lak611]

I don’t think that the Catholic Church has the monopoly on members who don’'t read the Bible very much.

Even in the Bible-only churches I’ve been to, most of the people you talk to at coffee time aren’t regular readers of the Bible - they leave it to “experts” like their preachers and Sunday School teachers. (Which is probably why they tend to believe whatever they are told about the Bible without questioning it too much.)

But in the Catholic Church we don’t hinge our entire theology on the Bible, so if someone doesn’t read the Bible, no one will go out of their way to tell them, “The Bible says thus and so,” - so they don’t even have the kind of second-hand knowledge that a “Bible-only” non-reader would have.

What you said is true. Years ago, most Catholics did not read the Bible, whereas most Protestants did. For instance my parents (Catholic) had a Bible but only used it to record important family records (marriages, baptisms, etc.). Their Protestant friends always read their Bibles. Nowadays, I (Catholic) attend an adult Sunday school program at my church. We always study the Bible. Currently, we are studying Paul’s letters to the Galatians and Romans. I have a good friend who is Methodist. He did not even own a Bible until I purchased one for him for Christmas in 2005. His Sunday school classes are watching movies and talking about the religious aspects of the films, not even mentioning the Word of God!

 

[Syele]

What you are doing is creating a false dichtomy and on purposefully interpreting what Catholics mean by being against Sola Scriptura. The Church itslf regards the Bible as the the inrerrent and inspired writings that is a living witness to both Covenants. If we believe that the Holy scriptures is inerrent and (name removed by moderator)sired thenw agree taht it us authoritative. But we reject the notion that it ALONE is authoritative as the Bible rejects this.

What I did was give a good example of what Catholics do here, Check out the thread “Show me from Scripture” The thread is supposedly on Sola Scriptura. The very arguments being used include:
*Look at Genesis 1! Science proved it’s wrong literally you can’t believe it!
*It’s full of miracles and stuff Athiests will think it’s a lot of junk
*People disagree on stuff like the Color of Jesus’ Robe! See it’s not accurate!

I’m supposed to accept the word of humanistic Science and atheists over the Scriptures? I’m supposed to believe the Bible is so falliable that only the Catholic Church can tell me the truth? Catholics Also tell me THEY gave me the Bible… IF it’s so falliable then I should not only not be Catholic I should cease belief in Christianity altogether.

So, Manny, You ask, “Do hardcore Protestant think the Catholic Church are Anti-Bible?” Yes they do. Mainly because of stupid ways in which Catholics try to prove Church Authority. Turtullian and others can deny it and stick their heads in the sand all they like but it’s still true.

The longer I’m on CAF the less respect I have for Catholics. think about it.

 

[jmcrae]

Im a little confused. Are you saying it is ok not to read the bible and /or are you saying that the bible actually says it is ok not to read scripture?

Peace

I wasn’t actually commenting on that aspect of it, either way. As a Catechist and former Bible Study leader, I believe that everyone should read the Scriptures at least 20 minutes every day, and keep a journal of their experiences.

But my observations are that in the Catholic Church, people don’t even have second-hand knowledge of the Scriptures, if they don’t take the time to obtain first-hand knowledge.

I’m not sure what we do about this.

On a positive note, I was told yesterday that some of our parish children (who have been very zealous lately in Bible study) visited a Baptist Sunday School class with some friends a few weeks ago, and I guess they blew the Baptist kids right out of the water with their excellent knowledge of the Scriptures.

It seems as though when we’re good, we’re very very good, and when we’re bad, we’re terrible. No middle ground, for us, I suppose.

 

[Mannyfit75]

What I did was give a good example of what Catholics do here, Check out the thread “Show me from Scripture” The thread is supposedly on Sola Scriptura. The very arguments being used include:
*Look at Genesis 1! Science proved it’s wrong literally you can’t believe it!
*It’s full of miracles and stuff Athiests will think it’s a lot of junk
*People disagree on stuff like the Color of Jesus’ Robe! See it’s not accurate!

I’m supposed to accept the word of humanistic Science and atheists over the Scriptures? I’m supposed to believe the Bible is so falliable that only the Catholic Church can tell me the truth? Catholics Also tell me THEY gave me the Bible… IF it’s so falliable then I should not only not be Catholic I should cease belief in Christianity altogether.

So, Manny, You ask, “Do hardcore Protestant think the Catholic Church are Anti-Bible?” Yes they do. Mainly because of stupid ways in which Catholics try to prove Church Authority. Turtullian and others can deny it and stick their heads in the sand all they like but it’s still true.

The longer I’m on CAF the less respect I have for Catholics. think about it.

Catholic believe in Church Authority because they believe in Apostolic Succession. God the Father gave authority to Jesus, Jesus gave authority to his Apostles, and the Apostles gave their authority to their sucessors, which are the bishops and Popes of today.

To reject the Church Authority is to reject Jesus. To reject Jesus is to reject the Father.

He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you, rejects me, but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me. Luke 10:16

That is why devote Catholics believe in Church Authority.

Who canonized the Bible and made a list. The Church in the following Synods.

Council of Laodicea (360 AD), Council of ROme (382), Council of Hippo (393 AD), Council of Carthage (397). Pope Innocent, Bishop of Rome, affirmed these councils and was finally finalized by the Council of Trent (1545 A.D).

Conclusion; The Catholic Church gave us the Bible and God gave the Church authority. This is Biblical and there are no verses in the Bible that denies Church Authority. The Bible with itself cannot be the authority source. It is the Church just as Timothy 3:15 states, But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth

 

[Syele]

Manny You still missed the point. I know why Cathlocs believe in Church Authority. I’m saying that they way arguments are presented make Catholics look bad.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I wasn’t actually commenting on that aspect of it, either way. As a Catechist and former Bible Study leader, I believe that everyone should read the Scriptures at least 20 minutes every day, and keep a journal of their experiences.

But my observations are that in the Catholic Church, people don’t even have second-hand knowledge of the Scriptures, if they don’t take the time to obtain first-hand knowledge.

I’m not sure what we do about this.

On a positive note, I was told yesterday that some of our parish children (who have been very zealous lately in Bible study) visited a Baptist Sunday School class with some friends a few weeks ago, and I guess they blew the Baptist kids right out of the water with their excellent knowledge of the Scriptures.

It seems as though when we’re good, we’re very very good, and when we’re bad, we’re terrible. No middle ground, for us, I suppose.

Hi,
Thank you for elaborating. It was late when I was reading or very earl in am I cant remember(OH NO Im losing my mind and Im only 40 )
If I am still on here at 45 can you imagine some things I might write

Now I get it and I agree with you. I admit I am not good at this on my own. I need to be in a bible study and be regimented or structered. I just started my study on Daniel today. It is going to be a difficult study but I will be much smarter at the end As you can see apparently I need to be smarter

AFH

 

[Syele]

Manny, You totally missed the point of my post.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny You still missed the point. I know why Cathlocs believe in Church Authority. I’m saying that they way arguments are presented make Catholics look bad.

What arguments are presented that makes Catholic looks bad? Can you be more clear on what these accusations are?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I wasn’t actually commenting on that aspect of it, either way. As a Catechist and former Bible Study leader, I believe that everyone should read the Scriptures at least 20 minutes every day, and keep a journal of their experiences.

But my observations are that in the Catholic Church, people don’t even have second-hand knowledge of the Scriptures, if they don’t take the time to obtain first-hand knowledge.

There are those who have second knowledge of the Scripture. You failed to acknowledge that there are Catholics who knows.

I’m not sure what we do about this.

On a positive note, I was told yesterday that some of our parish children (who have been very zealous lately in Bible study) visited a Baptist Sunday School class with some friends a few weeks ago, and I guess they blew the Baptist kids right out of the water with their excellent knowledge of the Scriptures.

It seems as though when we’re good, we’re very very good, and when we’re bad, we’re terrible. No middle ground, for us, I suppose.

 

[Syele]

What arguments are presented that makes Catholic looks bad? Can you be more clear on what these accusations are?

how about these three?
*Look at Genesis 1! Science proved it’s wrong literally you can’t believe it!
*It’s full of miracles and stuff Athiests will think it’s a lot of junk
*People disagree on stuff like the Color of Jesus’ Robe! See it’s not accurate!

Seriously, these are things I’d expect from non-christians!

 

[Cardinalsong]

I feel comfortable saying this with some certainty, in regard to the question posed by this thread:

Most Protestants believe Catholics don’t read the Bible much if at all, and that Catholic leaders discourage the reading of scripture, other than in service. In fact, I’ve talked with some nonCatholics who are surprised to find out Catholics actually do read scripture in mass.

Most Protestants believe Catholics put their church’s doctrines, creeds and other “rules” – including the Pope’s “commands” far above anything in the Bible.

Most Protestants who are aware that the Catholic Bible has several more books than the “Protestant” Bible are disturbed by this and take it in a generally negative light, often that Catholics are intentionally keeping “heretical” books in the Bible.

Most Protestants have been told that Catholics either intentionally misuse Scripture for the doctrines, or have doctrines that are opposed to scripture. Depending on the Protestant’s particular opinion of Catholicism, they reason that either the Catholic Church is intentionally (Satanically) going against Scripture, OR more positively, I guess, that the Church is SO Biblically illiterate that it is following doctrines that are antiBiblical out of ignorance. (This is a major way Protestants try to draw Catholics out of Catholicism into Protestantism, by “proving” via scripture that the doctrines are antiBiblical to Catholics who aren’t very familiar with scripture.

Most Protestants are convinced that Catholics follow “works doctrines” meaning that they believe their own good works will earn them a place in Heaven. (Also known as Pelagianism, which was condemned as heresy by the Catholic Church 15 centuries, ironically). By misunderstanding the Catholic doctrines on salvation, they then accuse Catholics of being anti-Bible over works when the actual misunderstanding is on the Protestant side over this issue. Catholics and most Protestants do differ over the role of works in salvation, but the distinction isn’t nearly as clear cut as most Protestants think it is, and it isn’t because Catholics misunderstand the Bible as wildly as Protestants might believe they do.

Most Protestants would be Blown Away by the amount of Catholic Bible Study materials and the depth they go into. The Navarre Study Bible and the Ignatius Study Bible (and the many, many Scott Hahn tapes and courses) are just a few. Many Protestants mistakenly believe that because they don’t see many or any Catholic products in Christian Bookstores, there aren’t any. Really. I was one of them. Hard to admit to myself now that I know better.

MarkAA

Mark–that’s the best description of Protestant misunderstanding of Catholics:thumbsup:

I know my husband misconstrues a lot of the Catholic teachings based on simple mis-information. I hope you don’t mind me copying your quote to show him how Catholics can be easily misunderstood by protestants.

 

[jmcrae]

how about these three?
*Look at Genesis 1! Science proved it’s wrong literally you can’t believe it!
*It’s full of miracles and stuff Athiests will think it’s a lot of junk
*People disagree on stuff like the Color of Jesus’ Robe! See it’s not accurate!

Seriously, these are things I’d expect from non-christians!

Um - me too.

Are you serious? Catholics are telling you stuff like this??

You should know that they are going against the teachings of the Catholic Church, if so.

 

[rbarcia]

Catholic believe in Church Authority because they believe in Apostolic Succession. God the Father gave authority to Jesus, Jesus gave authority to his Apostles, and the Apostles gave their authority to their sucessors, which are the bishops and Popes of today.

Are you a member of the church? You do not believe in church authority, but in magesterium authority. The church is all the members.

To reject the Church Authority is to reject Jesus.

The magesterium is not the church

To reject Jesus is to reject the Father.

agree

He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you, rejects me, but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me. Luke 10:16

You are twisting scripture. We know rejecting the Son is also rejecting the Father. This has nothing to do with a magesterium

That is why devote Catholics believe in Church Authority.

Who canonized the Bible and made a list. The Church in the following Synods.

Council of Laodicea (360 AD), Council of ROme (382), Council of Hippo (393 AD), Council of Carthage (397). Pope Innocent, Bishop of Rome, affirmed these councils and was finally finalized by the Council of Trent (1545 A.D).

The early church is not the same romand catholic church that held the council of trent.

Conclusion; The Catholic Church gave us the Bible and God gave the Church authority. This is Biblical and there are no verses in the Bible that denies Church Authority.

God never gave authority to the church. God the Father gave authority to Jesus:

**

Mat 28

18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

**

The Bible with itself cannot be the authority source. It is the Church just as Timothy 3:15 states, But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth

How church members behave is important. This has nothing to do with a magesterium. Is the church only the magesterium?

 

[E.E.N.S]

how about these three?
*Look at Genesis 1! Science proved it’s wrong literally you can’t believe it!
*It’s full of miracles and stuff Athiests will think it’s a lot of junk
*People disagree on stuff like the Color of Jesus’ Robe! See it’s not accurate!

Seriously, these are things I’d expect from non-christians!

Actually I read this in another, you are clearly misrepresenting what the other poster was saying.

 

[jmcrae]

The early church is not the same romand catholic church that held the council of trent.

Then I have two questions for you.

1. In what year did the Church that promulgated the Council of Trent schismate from Christ’s Church? Who were its leaders at the time of the schism, and who were the leaders of the True Church at that same time? What were the causes of the schism?
2. Where are the rightful successors of the Bishops of Rome (Innocent I), Carthage (Aurelius), Laodicea (Apollinaris), and Hippo (Augustine) today?

 

[jmcrae]

How church members behave is important. This has nothing to do with a magesterium. Is the church only the magesterium?

The Magesterium is the teaching authority that was given by Christ to the Apostles. The Church is all those people who obey the Magesterium - not only those parts that they happen to like, but all of it.

 

[RCCDefender]

Syele and Manny although I may just be getting myself into trouble may I intercede here? Syele I see that you are saying that many protestants aren’t taught the correct meaning of Sola Scriptura (literally, Scripture Alone). Rather they are taught that it means that the Scriptures are without error. Therefore when they hear a Catholic say “Sola Scriptura is false!” they understand them to mean, “The Bible contains error.” Syele, the Bible is not fallible, or, rather, the Bible does not contain error, nor does the Church teach that. It is us who are fallible, and if we interpret the Bible in a way that is contrary to Church teaching (as did those “Catholics” that you quoted earlier) then we are in error, not the Bible. I can see how a Catholic saying things like that which you mentioned* would *appear really bad to a non-Catholic.

 

[Syele]

I can see how a Catholic saying things like that which you mentioned* would *appear really bad to a non-Catholic.

Thank you, I ws not attempting to say who is right and who is wrong, Only that as you described… it can appear bad to the non-Catholic. IF that person that percieves it badly then goes and tells their friends what was said from their point of view it perpetuates it all even more.

Both Catholics and Protestants often misunderstand the other and jump to wrong conclusions due to defining things differently. IF we ever want to have a clear understanding of one another we have to keep this in mind and be careful to say what we mean by the terms we use.