F
fakename
Guest
Does the consultation of horoscopes pose any demonic dangers?
Is it safe to have friends who are friends of horoscope-consultants?
Is it safe to have friends who are friends of horoscope-consultants?
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B
Bezant
Guest
F
fakename
Guest
"Yes.
I’m afraid your scrupulosity’s at work."
Why do you think so?
I just believe in “better safe than sorry”. If I had a friend who had a friend who had a communicable disease I’d try to stay away from either of them. In this case the disease is demonic influence. Who knows if it has spread to the other friend, why it may even be knocking on my door?
I’m afraid your scrupulosity’s at work."
Why do you think so?
I just believe in “better safe than sorry”. If I had a friend who had a friend who had a communicable disease I’d try to stay away from either of them. In this case the disease is demonic influence. Who knows if it has spread to the other friend, why it may even be knocking on my door?
C
Catholic90
Guest
Horoscopes - like the ones that say
You may be in danger today. Be alert. Catch up on family activities.
No.
F
fakename
Guest
To Catholic90: are there other kinds of horoscopes?
C
Catholic90
Guest
Not that I am aware of! They are all pretty silly!
A
A_G
Guest
Horoscopes may lead to divination. Following the horoscope closely is an occult practice.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
B
Bezant
Guest
Common sense.
Demonic possession is nothing like a contagious disease.
You can put the second one to the test and generally trace its infection in a laboratory.
There’s no hard evidence for demonic possession at all, let alone evidence that it’s linked to a particular cause.
F
fakename
Guest
“There’s no hard evidence for demonic possession at all, let alone evidence that it’s linked to a particular cause.”
Well, regardless of anything else said here, there must be demonic possession, for the Church’s interpretation of the Bible makes it necessary that Jesus cured possessed people.
Well, regardless of anything else said here, there must be demonic possession, for the Church’s interpretation of the Bible makes it necessary that Jesus cured possessed people.
B
Bezant
Guest
But there’s nothing in the Gospels saying possession came from reading horoscopes. Which makes sense. Have you seen it happen?
F
fakename
Guest
"But there’s nothing in the Gospels saying possession came from reading horoscopes. Which makes sense. Have you seen it happen? "
never seen it, but I’m just asking to take advantage of the law of large numbers -perhaps someone else has seen it?
never seen it, but I’m just asking to take advantage of the law of large numbers -perhaps someone else has seen it?
B
Bezant
Guest
But fakename, how could you possibly decide that, even if you saw someone in a demonic fit right after having read a horoscope in a magazine? Assuming it was a demonic fit, how would you know it didn’t happen because of some other reason(s)?
The point of avoiding horoscopes is not to protect us from Satan so much as from our own arrogance. Horoscopes, Oujia boards, palmistry, are all attempts to control what God has forbidden to us–the afterlife and destiny.
The only problems I often see with people who follow horoscopes scrupulously is that 1) they don’t trust God will handle everything in time and 2) that he’s given them the ability to overcome any problem that comes their way.
F
fakename
Guest
To Bezant:
But fakename, how could you possibly decide that, even if you saw someone in a demonic fit right after having read a horoscope in a magazine? Assuming it was a demonic fit, how would you know it didn’t happen because of some other reason(s)?
And this coming from someone who asked me if I ever saw horoscopes causing demonic possession, as if to imply that seeing=knowing
The point of avoiding horoscopes is not to protect us from Satan so much as from our own arrogance. Horoscopes, Oujia boards, palmistry, are all attempts to control what God has forbidden to us–the afterlife and destiny.
The only problems I often see with people who follow horoscopes scrupulously is that 1) they don’t trust God will handle everything in time and 2) that he’s given them the ability to overcome any problem that comes their way.
But, I should also recommend reading the Summa Theologica. In it, it seems that demons are behind all types of divination and superstitions (at least those superstitions that make use of magic to foretell the future). But horoscopes are all about magical foretellings . Now I figured that since Ouija boards can bring about possessions, then so too could horoscopes, by analogy. There is a method to my madness, such that it is.
But fakename, how could you possibly decide that, even if you saw someone in a demonic fit right after having read a horoscope in a magazine? Assuming it was a demonic fit, how would you know it didn’t happen because of some other reason(s)?
And this coming from someone who asked me if I ever saw horoscopes causing demonic possession, as if to imply that seeing=knowing
The point of avoiding horoscopes is not to protect us from Satan so much as from our own arrogance. Horoscopes, Oujia boards, palmistry, are all attempts to control what God has forbidden to us–the afterlife and destiny.
The only problems I often see with people who follow horoscopes scrupulously is that 1) they don’t trust God will handle everything in time and 2) that he’s given them the ability to overcome any problem that comes their way.
But, I should also recommend reading the Summa Theologica. In it, it seems that demons are behind all types of divination and superstitions (at least those superstitions that make use of magic to foretell the future). But horoscopes are all about magical foretellings . Now I figured that since Ouija boards can bring about possessions, then so too could horoscopes, by analogy. There is a method to my madness, such that it is.
B
Bezant
Guest
Even if you had said yes, I would have asked you how you knew.To Bezant:
But fakename, how could you possibly decide that, even if you saw someone in a demonic fit right after having read a horoscope in a magazine? Assuming it was a demonic fit, how would you know it didn’t happen because of some other reason(s)?
And this coming from someone who asked me if I ever saw horoscopes causing demonic possession, as if to imply that seeing=knowing
I think it’s sufficient for us to know that we shouldn’t use any of these things, frankly.
M
mdgspencer
Guest
I wouldn’t think that using them could cause a demonic effect on someone else. Using a horoscope could be a channel for the devil’s influence on one’s own life, but I don’t see any risk to others unless the person using one promotes its use with other people.
D
Deo_Volente
Guest
Grace & Peace!
The problem with horoscopes is slightly more insidious than demonic possession: they can lead us to abandon our free will in favor of fatalism or determinism.
There was a time when a belief in the influence of the stars over human life was widespread–kings, popes, priests, peasants, even some saints, believed that the stars had such power. But this was largely due to a particular cosmological view that we (in some ways, sadly) lack today. They believed that the physical world was a direct manifestation of spiritual realities, that the stars and planets were the physical representations of spiritual forces, and that “rays of influence” from the planets and stars contained that force within it. Horoscopes were believed to be useful because those rays of influence permeated everything and, at birth, were believed to imprint themselves on the soul of a newborn (influencing personality, etc.–some, indeed, have claimed that astrology is actually a precursor of psychology). Alternatively the soul was believed to pass through the spiritual spheres of the planets and constellations on its way to the body at birth, either receiving influences from them, or “clothing itself” in their spiritual substance in its descent. In either conception, the practical implications, are identical.) In short, heaven, earth, the spiritual and the material were seen to be harmoniously interconnected realities.
But even in the midst of this belief in the power of the stars and planets, Christian writers frequently pointed out that the heavenly bodies can never be seen to compel human or natural behavior, but can only be seen to influence it (in keeping with the parameters of their largely Platonic cosmological understanding). While that is not a justification of their belief necessarily, it does show you how far we’ve come regarding astrology: how the once very Christian understanding of free will operating within a spiritually alive, active and interconnected universe has given way to a more New Age fatalism which is often little more than superstition laid over a coldly mechanical cosmology inherited from the “Enlightenment.”
What’s interesting these days is how the popular view of genetics has assumed a lot of the fatalism of astrology as sun-sign horoscopes become mere entertainment…but both astrology and genetics, properly understood, are far more nuanced than their popular versions would see them.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
The problem with horoscopes is slightly more insidious than demonic possession: they can lead us to abandon our free will in favor of fatalism or determinism.
There was a time when a belief in the influence of the stars over human life was widespread–kings, popes, priests, peasants, even some saints, believed that the stars had such power. But this was largely due to a particular cosmological view that we (in some ways, sadly) lack today. They believed that the physical world was a direct manifestation of spiritual realities, that the stars and planets were the physical representations of spiritual forces, and that “rays of influence” from the planets and stars contained that force within it. Horoscopes were believed to be useful because those rays of influence permeated everything and, at birth, were believed to imprint themselves on the soul of a newborn (influencing personality, etc.–some, indeed, have claimed that astrology is actually a precursor of psychology). Alternatively the soul was believed to pass through the spiritual spheres of the planets and constellations on its way to the body at birth, either receiving influences from them, or “clothing itself” in their spiritual substance in its descent. In either conception, the practical implications, are identical.) In short, heaven, earth, the spiritual and the material were seen to be harmoniously interconnected realities.
But even in the midst of this belief in the power of the stars and planets, Christian writers frequently pointed out that the heavenly bodies can never be seen to compel human or natural behavior, but can only be seen to influence it (in keeping with the parameters of their largely Platonic cosmological understanding). While that is not a justification of their belief necessarily, it does show you how far we’ve come regarding astrology: how the once very Christian understanding of free will operating within a spiritually alive, active and interconnected universe has given way to a more New Age fatalism which is often little more than superstition laid over a coldly mechanical cosmology inherited from the “Enlightenment.”
What’s interesting these days is how the popular view of genetics has assumed a lot of the fatalism of astrology as sun-sign horoscopes become mere entertainment…but both astrology and genetics, properly understood, are far more nuanced than their popular versions would see them.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
V
Vladd
Guest
Lol astrologist dont use magic to control the future , they have studied the planets and when given your birthday etc they can tell you what to expect as in how times will be etc etc . The one purchasing the reading will be doing whatever meditations needed to stop the effects of certain planets causing the purchaser Any depression etc etc. there is no magic in astrology , again it’s the study of planets. Who told you it was magic? It’s only the knowledge of planets , I’m sure the church hasn’t said its magic, have they?To Bezant:
But fakename, how could you possibly decide that, even if you saw someone in a demonic fit right after having read a horoscope in a magazine? Assuming it was a demonic fit, how would you know it didn’t happen because of some other reason(s)?
And this coming from someone who asked me if I ever saw horoscopes causing demonic possession, as if to imply that seeing=knowing
The point of avoiding horoscopes is not to protect us from Satan so much as from our own arrogance. Horoscopes, Oujia boards, palmistry, are all attempts to control what God has forbidden to us–the afterlife and destiny.
The only problems I often see with people who follow horoscopes scrupulously is that 1) they don’t trust God will handle everything in time and 2) that he’s given them the ability to overcome any problem that comes their way.
But, I should also recommend reading the Summa Theologica. In it, it seems that demons are behind all types of divination and superstitions (at least those superstitions that make use of magic to foretell the future). But horoscopes are all about magical foretellings . Now I figured that since Ouija boards can bring about possessions, then so too could horoscopes, by analogy. There is a method to my madness, such that it is.
B
bmullins
Guest
The church sees it as superstition and something to be avoided, especially in that we should be trusting in God to provide for us.
Astrology in the Catholic Encyclopedia
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