Do humans naturally hate God?

[mackbrislawn]

I’d be curious to know why he believes that. Quite an interesting proposition but one that needs more elaboration than just “humans naturally hate God”.

Luther hated God, which was asserted in one of my various readings about Luther. If true, could it be that the notion that “humans naturally hate God” be an inheritance of that?

 

[jcrichton]

Probably gets it from Romans 1:

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Context is the pagan gentile world, however chapter 2 makes a similar claim on the Jewish people and Romans 3 sums it all up making the point that all human beings are sinners, whether Jew or Gentile.

"None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.” Romans 3:10-12

The apostle Paul is trying to make the point that everyone in the world is a sinner and in need of the forgiveness through Jesus Christ

Hi!
…yet, though we are all sinners does not predicate that we are all hate of God; rather that we love ourselves more than we love God as we put ourselves above God.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Nope.

In our truest perfect nature, we love God above all things. Humans are naturally inclined towards the good. That’s why we like things like good food, pretty music, the sight of a sunrise, etc. etc. etc… Since God is the pinnacle of all good, if we “naturally hated God,” we wouldn’t be able to stand any of those things.

Now, in our fallen state, we sometimes are inclined to love good things MORE than we love God, or we love the perversions of good things instead of the goods themselves. That’s called “concupiscence.” But we only love those things, even when we do so wrongly, because we see some good in them that reflects, in greater or lesser degrees, the goodness of God.

So in answer to your question, no, humans naturally love God; it’s the unnatural distortion of our nature by evil that makes us want the creations more than we want the Creator, and then we get angry when the Creator demands greater love for Him than we give to His creations.

Sources: Augustine’s Confessions, basic philosophy

Hi, Follower!
…though I did not quite see it that way, I tend to agree with your summation… we can go directly to Adam’s and Eve’s first born sons (Cain and Abel); had they inherently hated God they would not have offered Sacrifice–still, we can see the love of self emerging as Cain resolves not to love God more but to keep his brother from doing so!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Luther hated God, which was asserted in one of my various readings about Luther. If true, could it be that the notion that “humans naturally hate God” be an inheritance of that?

Hi, Mack!
…from what I have gathered, it could well have been glimpsed from some of Luther’s theology–man being completely wretched (in Luther’s understanding) what can he do good?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Church_Militant]

What you’ve run into is someone who holds to the Total depravity of man doctrine. The bad news is that according to St. Paul in Romans 1 that just doesn’t wash. Notice that he says that people innately know right and wrong.

---

[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth.
[19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
[20] Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse;
[21] for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened.
[22] Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
[23] and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles.
[24] Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
[25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.
[26] For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
[27] and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
[28] And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.
[29] They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips,
[30] slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
[31] foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
[32] Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them. ***.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Hi, Mack!
…from what I have gathered, it could well have been glimpsed from some of Luther’s theology–man being completely wretched (in Luther’s understanding) what can he do good?

Maran atha!

Angel

That’s right! If humans are completely wretched and totally depraved, it would be natural to hate that which is good. So, the conclusion from that perspective would be that humans naturally hate God.

 

[fhansen]

I have an evengelical friend who recently told me that humans naturally hate God.

Is this true? What scripture passages support or refute this?

I think there’s an aversion to God, at least, within the human spirit- a carrying on of Adam’s rebellion who, the Catechism teaches, *preferred himself *to God.

In John 15 Jesus, speaking of His persecutor’s attitude towards Himself and His Father, quotes Psalm 69:4, “But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’ And John 3:19 tells us, “This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.” To the extent that we sin we prefer to remain in darkness, hidden.

And pride & self-righteousness, themselves, some things fallen man never seems to be completely free of, are opposed to God by their natures, whether we’re conscious of that opposition or not.

 

[Vico]

Hi!
…have you noticed that this particular passage (Isaiah 14:12-15) speaks of Lucifer, aka Satan, aka the Ancient Serpent?

So while we are born of Original Sin, we do not, inherently, see God as our nemesis.

Maran atha!

Angel

Correction, I left the no out by mistake:

Adam and Eve were granted the gifts to which human beings have no title by nature – namely the preternatural gifts of infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality, and the supernatural gift of grace.

So these gifts are not inherent.

Catholic Encylopedia has under Concupiesence:

The Reformers of the sixteenth century, especially Luther, proposed new views respecting concupiscence. They adopted as fundamental to their theology the following propositions:

* Original justice with all its gifts and graces was due to man as an integral part of his nature;* concupiscence is of itself sinful, and being the sinful corruption of human nature caused by Adam’s transgression and inherited by all his descendants, is the very essence of original sin;

• baptism, since it does not extinguish concupiscence, does not really remit the guilt of original sin, but only effects that it is no longer imputed to man and no longer draws down condemnation on him. This position is held also by the Anglican Church in its Thirty-nine Articles and its Book of Common Prayer.

The Catholic Church condemns these doctrines as erroneous or heretical. The Council of Trent (Sess. V, e.v.) defines that by the grace of baptism the guilt of original sin is completely remitted and does not merely cease to be imputed to man. As to concupiscence the council declares that it remains in those that are baptized in order that they may struggle for the victory, but does no harm to those who resist it by the grace of God, and that it is called sin by St. Paul, not because it is sin formally and in the proper sense, but because it sprang from sin and incites to sin. Later on Pius V, by the Bull “Ex omnibus affictionibus” (1 Oct., 1567), Gregory XIII, by the Bull “Provisionis Nostrae” (29 Jan., 1579), Urban VIII, by the Bull “In eminenti” (6 March, 1641), condemned the propositions of Bajus (21, 23, 24, 26), Clement XI, by the Constitution “Unigenitus”, those of Quesnel (34, 35); and finally Pius VI, by the Bull “Auctorem fidei” (28 Aug., 1794), those of the Synod of Pistoja (16), which maintained that the gifts and graces bestowed on Adam and constituting his original justice were not supernatural but due to human nature.​

newadvent.org/cathen/04208a.htm

 

[jcrichton]

That’s right! If humans are completely wretched and totally depraved, it would be natural to hate that which is good. So, the conclusion from that perspective would be that humans naturally hate God.

Hi!
…yet, it would necessitate that humans be completely devoid of God… something that is quite impossible since God infused His Spirit in man at Creation… so the conclusion may appear correct but only because it is lacking the true inherent element:

7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Correction, I left the no out by mistake:

Adam and Eve were granted the gifts to which human beings have no title by nature – namely the preternatural gifts of infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality, and the supernatural gift of grace.

So these gifts are not inherent.

Catholic Encylopedia has under Concupiesence:

The Reformers of the sixteenth century, especially Luther, proposed new views respecting concupiscence. They adopted as fundamental to their theology the following propositions:

* Original justice with all its gifts and graces was due to man as an integral part of his nature;* concupiscence is of itself sinful, and being the sinful corruption of human nature caused by Adam’s transgression and inherited by all his descendants, is the very essence of original sin;

• baptism, since it does not extinguish concupiscence, does not really remit the guilt of original sin, but only effects that it is no longer imputed to man and no longer draws down condemnation on him. This position is held also by the Anglican Church in its Thirty-nine Articles and its Book of Common Prayer.

The Catholic Church condemns these doctrines as erroneous or heretical. The Council of Trent (Sess. V, e.v.) defines that by the grace of baptism the guilt of original sin is completely remitted and does not merely cease to be imputed to man. As to concupiscence the council declares that it remains in those that are baptized in order that they may struggle for the victory, but does no harm to those who resist it by the grace of God, and that it is called sin by St. Paul, not because it is sin formally and in the proper sense, but because it sprang from sin and incites to sin. Later on Pius V, by the Bull “Ex omnibus affictionibus” (1 Oct., 1567), Gregory XIII, by the Bull “Provisionis Nostrae” (29 Jan., 1579), Urban VIII, by the Bull “In eminenti” (6 March, 1641), condemned the propositions of Bajus (21, 23, 24, 26), Clement XI, by the Constitution “Unigenitus”, those of Quesnel (34, 35); and finally Pius VI, by the Bull “Auctorem fidei” (28 Aug., 1794), those of the Synod of Pistoja (16), which maintained that the gifts and graces bestowed on Adam and constituting his original justice were not supernatural but due to human nature.​

newadvent.org/cathen/04208a.htm

Hi!
…that is the struggle described by St. Paul:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, 23 Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23)

…it is also the reason why some, throughout time, have submitted their will to God’s and have opened themselves to God’s Call.

Maran atha!

Angel