Do I confront my wife?

[Saturn5]

Michelle states emphatically that both people are not necessary in order to turn things around. And she seems to have the success rate to prove it. Her methodology is different from other marital counseling, much more focused on what to do NOW than in what happened in the past. It’s very action-orientated, which makes it good for men, I think, since your gender isn’t as fixated on talking as ours seems to be. If your wife refuses counseling, DivorceBusting might just help you turn things around.

Hmmmm…Wisdom…In my case, very little wisdom since I have a very thick skull and a mulish nature…Stubborn in other words. I credit the Holy Spirit for any breakthroughs - it’s a breakthrough of my defenses that comes ONLY through the will of God. Those revelations tend to come when I least expect them, and usually when my own will has gotten me either nowhere, or the exact opposite destination from where I wanted to go. Praise God for His mercy! My situation is somewhat different from yours, so even if I could put my personal “growth moment” into words, I don’t think you’d get much from it…since a lot of our problems revolved around sexual intimacy or lack thereof. It’s better, still a little sensitive, but better since I gave up some of my treasured resentments and realized that yeah, I was punishing my husband by withholding the marital embrace. Not something I am proud of, that’s for sure.

No, don’t confront the other man. Your wife is not being victimized, it takes 2 to tango, and you have to deal with her. You can chase this man away but if she wants to, she can pick up a new guy later today. You have to work from your marriage, that’s all.

Thank you, you’ve sort of validated my thoughts and prayers on this. My wife too is stubborn and she will tell you that. Growing up watching the verbally and emotional abusive marriage of her parents, she is very set in her ways and bristles at anyone telling her what to do (or if she “feels” someone telling her what to do). I can tell you that the marital embrace as been missing for us for well over a year now as well and she has tried to use that to control the relationship in the past. I have tried in essence to take that away as something controling me and continue to forgive and love her unconditionally. I try to demonstrate that in my actions and words. I will not give up! I have never felt something so powerful in my life. I just told her this last night, I would/will defend her physically if necessary, but I will also defend her spiritually.

I know the enemy has lured her with the glamour of eros as a previous poster mentioned. I agree with that. I am focusing on agape…and it has freed me from some demons of my own.

 

[Saturn5]

Saturn…first, let me say that your commitment to your wife, your vows, and your faith in God are an example for all of us. Kudos to you for being so proactive in showing your love and faithfulness to your bride. I know it will be worth it in the long run, but am so sorry for the tough times you’re going through right now.

Though my job at Focus on the Family, I have come across this article series online that addresses marriage issues…there’s a part of it that speaks to how to work on your marriage even when one spouse is not willing to do counseling, etc. Maybe it would be helpful to you?

My prayers are definitely with you…trusting that the Lord will guide you through this tough spot…give you the grace and strength you need daily…and bring your marriage through this even stronger than before. Hang in there!!

Thank you for your prayers and the link. I am praying on what to do next. I have offered my marriage up to the Lord, but I know He wants my active participating in becoming a better husband and father as well. These links help me be active in that.

I did go to counseling myself last summer. It was interesting. The counselor was not Catholic, in fact was a former Catholic. She didn’t charge me the last few sessions because she was actually a little bewildered at the strength of my faith and how this was carrying me through this. I think she was taking notes! She was not helpful. In fact she tried to move me into the, “you need to be happy as individual” route, but I rejected that immediately. I told I take me committment to my marriage, the vow I made to God and my wife very seriously. I told her I was actually looking for help in helping someone (my wife) that grew up in the environment she did…how can I help her more.

I’m going to look more into RealJulian’s suggestion on DivorceBusters too.

 

[eireannq]

You cannot force someone to remain faithful when they choose not to. You are a much stronger man than I wanting to work things out with your wife and I do wish you the best. But again confront her and talk with your Priest.

My husband walked out on my 3 children and myself almost 6 years ago. Based on personal experience, I can only advise you to get some counseling for yourself and your children now. She is gonna do what she’s gonna do. God gave us all free will, and I believe he will not interfere with it. As far as her being angry about your “snooping”, don’t let that get to you. I was going crazy with fear and hopelessness about an affair that I suspected he was having, so I prayed to the Holy Spirit that if he wanted me to know, to please make it easy for me. With that, I went to the computer, I called my ex-husband’s cell phone company and asked for the top 5 phone numbers he had called in the last 6 months. The most called number was one I did not recognize. I did a reverse check on the phone number and a woman’s name came up. It was the easiest thing I had ever done. I explained to my ex what I did and he blew up at me. He got defensive and projected his actions on to me. That is what cheaters do. I do not feel an ounce of guilt. He should be the one feeling guilty. I am so grateful that the Holy Spirit answered my prayers and made it so easy for me to get some relief from the crazy-making thinking I was having. I am praying for you. Good Luck.

 

[TryingToLearn]

I did go to counseling myself last summer. It was interesting. The counselor was not Catholic, in fact was a former Catholic. She didn’t charge me the last few sessions because she was actually a little bewildered at the strength of my faith and how this was carrying me through this. I think she was taking notes! She was not helpful. In fact she tried to move me into the, “you need to be happy as individual” route, but I rejected that immediately. I told I take me committment to my marriage, the vow I made to God and my wife very seriously. I told her I was actually looking for help in helping someone (my wife) that grew up in the environment she did…how can I help her more.

We’re on a very similar journey. I’ve continued seeing a counselor, as well as two different priests… My counselor is Catholic, but like yours early on he did try to offer me advice, direction and help that I knew as not the path God wanted me to follow. We’ve found the place that he can help me. I frequently know what God wants me to do but don’t know how to do it, practically. I don’t know how to best open a discussion with my wife in such awkward circumstances, or I don’t know the best approach or words to use that have the best chance of being heard by her. Yes, prayer and letting the Spirit work through me is ultimately all that will work, but my counselor is a resource He has given me to improve my ability to communicate with and understand my wife and others. I go to my counselor knowing what I need to do in a broad sense, and he helps me find the time, methods, and words to walk that path… And he helps me to better myself as a father, a husband, and a Catholic man in practical ways.

I went through several counselors, some non-Catholic, some former Catholic, before one of my priests recommended my current counselor… and I’m really glad I didn’t give up on going to counseling, as he has given me direct, practical advice for improving myself, dealing with being what amounts to a single father, and interacting with my estranged wife in ways that are completely in line with my beliefs and my understanding of God’s will for me.

Stay true to Him. Keep praying for your wife.

Your wife is in my prayers as are you.

 

[TryingToLearn]

I’m going to look more into RealJulian’s suggestion on DivorceBusters too.

Divorce Busters is a good recommendation.

Also, while it is aimed at and probably even more useful when both partners wish to work together, I found Marriage 911 by Greg Alexander to be helpful. He and his wife are both Catholics that were both ready to divorce, but gave God an opening to work in their lives. The book offers advice interweaved with their story. I found their story inspiring and hopeful, and helped me further my understanding of God’s will for me.

 

[teresadeavila]

We’ve been through Retrouvaille and marriage counseling through our Diocese; I highly recommend checking with your local Diocese or church for resources! We are incredibly grateful for the time we spent in counseling and still work on our marriage every day. It’s not easy.

I found myself in a bit of an emotional affair that started as an innocent, work relationship and had to distance myself from getting too close. It’s all too easy nowadays spending more time outside our marriage in work, meetings, etc. Both of you need to work on your marriage and communication - you’ll discover some ugly truths and both of you will have to face them if both are open to it. Prayers to you and your wife!

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Hello Saturn-

You are in my prayers…

All this strikes very close to home for me. I lived it out for a long time.
Now that I have had (more than) a few years to reflect back on that period in my life and gain some perspective, some things are clear.
You mentioned the counseling, and her relutance to continue once the focus got closer to her. You are correct in your read of that situation.
I, too, started to turn my life around and draw closer to the Lord, tried to bring it all into the home, etc… I know that is when the marriage started to slide downward. The fact is, that the better you (I) get, the more apparent it is to her that SHE needs help and SHE has the problems. I was absolutely astonished that my ex wife would rather be miserable, break up the family, etc…than admit any sort of responsibility, or apologize, or acknowlege any defect of her character. But…that is what happened. I pray she does not go to her grave that way.

My life is way better nowadays. God does reward faith.
Wonderful wife, home full of love, friendship, true partnership.

I still pray for my ex wife almost daily.

 

[Saturn5]

Divorce Busters is a good recommendation.

Also, while it is aimed at and probably even more useful when both partners wish to work together, I found Marriage 911 by Greg Alexander to be helpful. He and his wife are both Catholics that were both ready to divorce, but gave God an opening to work in their lives. The book offers advice interweaved with their story. I found their story inspiring and hopeful, and helped me further my understanding of God’s will for me.

I think that’s the hardest things too is my wife’s faith has waned. I suppose it has too when you are being tempted. In all honesty, I would love for her to start working on her faith before the marriage. That would be a very positive sign for me!

 

[Saturn5]

We’ve been through Retrouvaille and marriage counseling through our Diocese; I highly recommend checking with your local Diocese or church for resources! We are incredibly grateful for the time we spent in counseling and still work on our marriage every day. It’s not easy.

I found myself in a bit of an emotional affair that started as an innocent, work relationship and had to distance myself from getting too close. It’s all too easy nowadays spending more time outside our marriage in work, meetings, etc. Both of you need to work on your marriage and communication - you’ll discover some ugly truths and both of you will have to face them if both are open to it. Prayers to you and your wife!

I’ve looked into Retrouvaille and suggested it too my wife…yes, I agree with you, it would be wonderful. But I’m afraid even if I physically drag my wife to it, there would no benefit for her. I realize I have to wait for this to be her decision.

…so many helpful paths to take for her, but none that she can embrace right now.

Thank you for your prayers! That helps tremendously!

 

[Saturn5]

Here is the rest. Prayers your way.

God bless

The third word for “love” we need to examine is phileo, which means “to have a special interest in someone or something, frequently with focus on close association; have affection for, like, consider someone a friend.” [2] It would probably be helpful if phileo were never translated “love” in the New Testament, because it refers to a strong liking or a strong friendship. Of course, we see how phileo gets translated “love,” because in modern culture we say we “love” things that we strongly like: “I love ice cream,” “I love my car,” “I love the way your hair looks,” etc. The word phileo implies a strong emotional connection, and thus is used of the “love,” or deep friendship, between friends. You can agape your enemies, but you cannot phileo them.

The fourth Greek word we need to understand is storge, which is the love and affection that naturally occurs between parents and children, can exist between siblings, and exists between husbands and wives in a good marriage. It occurs in Romans 12:10 in the word, philostorgos, which is a compound word made up of philos (the noun form of phileo) and storge. Romans 12:10 is a very important verse, directing us to be very loving and kind to each other.

Romans 12:10 (Author’s expanded translation)
As to your brotherly love, let there be deep friendship and family-affection toward one another.

If one is going to have a wonderful Christian life, obedient to the voice of God and have rich fellowship with other Christians, he or she will need to exercise all three kinds of love. We need agape love because some of the things that God requires of us are not fun or easy, but need to be done. We need to have phileo love because we need true friends to stand with us, people who are emotionally connected to us and with whom we can share our deepest thoughts and feelings. Lastly, we Christians need to have storge love between us, a deep family affection that comforts us and helps us feel connected to all our spiritual family.

I’ve read this before too. Yes, my wife seems to focus only on eros…unfortunately like much of western society. The enemy has infiltrated deeply into our society where lust is viewed as the normal, or worse yet, the ideal.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Many marriages are built upon lust. If God is not at the center of the marriage, what other strong driver is there but our earthly passions? Sex is a very strong part of us. God created us that way, so we would marry and have children. Unfortunately, being a fallen people in a fallen world, we have gone far astray from God’s ideal.

If God is at the center of the marriage, both people will look to God to see the other person more clearly. Not so if lust is at the center. I suppose it is possible to rebuild…Anything is possible with God. My situation is made more difficult because my husband does not believe in God any more, and has a burning anger toward the Church (which he has successfully hidden from our sons). I cannot get across to him what is missing in our relationship because for him, that door has been closed a long, long time. He has no regrets about how we lived before my reversion, so what can I say about it?

Saturn5, keep us up to date as to your situation.

 

[Saturn5]

Many marriages are built upon lust. If God is not at the center of the marriage, what other strong driver is there but our earthly passions? Sex is a very strong part of us. God created us that way, so we would marry and have children. Unfortunately, being a fallen people in a fallen world, we have gone far astray from God’s ideal.

If God is at the center of the marriage, both people will look to God to see the other person more clearly. Not so if lust is at the center. I suppose it is possible to rebuild…Anything is possible with God. My situation is made more difficult because my husband does not believe in God any more, and has a burning anger toward the Church (which he has successfully hidden from our sons). I cannot get across to him what is missing in our relationship because for him, that door has been closed a long, long time. He has no regrets about how we lived before my reversion, so what can I say about it?

Saturn5, keep us up to date as to your situation.

I wouldn’t be honest if I didn’t say this is difficult. We’re multiple years into it and I know the potential is there for more “multiple” years. Then you get that nagging in the back of your head of frustration. The nagging is never one of leaving it’s just, why is something so obvious to me, so obscure to her?

But then I think about my journey with Christ. I’m sure there were years where He could have very well said the same thing of me! What is so obvious to Him and His teachings was so obscure to me. And now that I am on His path, I realize how long He waited and that is what I must do. I know to some that sounds like settling, but it’s not. There is a peace (and a joy actually) when you finally get know to love someone unconditionally.

Honestly, it’s a bit of a perspective thing too. My wife is not a bad person by nature. She is a good mom, dedicated worker and “tries” to be wife at times. Any kind of intimacy (physical, emotional and spiritual) is kept at arms-length with me of course. I feel I fill in the gaps with what needs to be done to demonstrate a good marriage to our children. I am attentive to her, praise her in front of the kids, give her gifts, flowers, card, etc. But the minute the kids go to bed, she’s emotionally gone. We give each other hugs and “smooches” when we greet or leave each other, but that’s it. Compared to some I see on this forum, I should be counting my blessing. But I know the enemy lurks and that this incident is her “dancing in the minefield”. I know I can’t prevent her from doing what she’s going to do, but it’s hard to watch someone you love so deeply self-destruct. Then I’m back to Christ again…how many times does He watch that?

I’ve been doing daily Rosary’s during Lent. I try to get to Mass multiple times a week as well as confession at least once every couple months. (I’m ashamed to say there was a 20 year period there where I didn’t go to confession). I just asked one of our priests to offer up a Mass for us. I know God asks more of me and I want to give it and that means I have to continue to be charitable to my wife.

Juliane, I do try to talk to my wife daily as well. I call her a couple times during the day and then try to make sure we have time to talk at night. Sometimes our evening discussions turn into monologues on my part about the relationship. I try so hard to not let that happen. We’re both type A personalities so neither one of us is much to let things sit idle. Which is so surprising actually in this situation, I sorta half expected my wife to go “Hey let’s fix this!!” and dive in head first. But I realize the baggage she carries from her childhood prevents that from happening in this case. I know every time I “talk” to her somewhere inside is that inner child getting scolded again by the father or seeing her mother verbally abused.

I have always treated my wife with the utmost respect. I’ll admit we’ve had a couple shouting matches over the years, and I regret those tremendously. I’d bet my left arm that there is still a small part of those left unforgiven by my wife. I literally hang my head at that thought because I think it’s just another nail in the lid of the coffin for her that validates her “feelings”.

I am planning a date night for us this weekend and I have a bunch set up for the next few months. Those are something I know we need to continue to do and I have to treat them as “must do’s” every month at a minimum.

I pray for her so hard to open her heart to Christ. I know that if she started down that path, the rest would be gravy…

Thanks again for your prayers.

 

[Saturn5]

My wife and I had a wonderful “date night” last night!

I took her doing some things she hasn’t done for awhile. I could tell she was a little tense at the beginning of the evening, but I had resolved myself through prayer, that I was not going to let anything “feel” like a disappointment to me and then me sort of sabotage the evening!

I told myself to be the man I was when we first met, talkative, funny, generous, complimentary, etc. By the end of the evening we were both laughing and have a fun time!

When we got home, I was careful to make sure I didn’t exhibit anything like I expected any kind of physical intimacy either. I basically kissed her goodnight, told her I had fun (She said she did too) and crawled in bed next to her content of having a fun evening.

Now I know one fun date night, does not a marriage make. I know there is a long road ahead. I just pray for strength and wisdom for both my wife and me. For her to open herself to the forgiveness and love of Christ and for me the strength and wisdom to persevere. I know the enemy has got a strong hold her right now. I visualize in my prayers St. Michael doing battle all around our home at times. I hear the ring of his saber as he sends another demon back the depths. It is a battle that I want participate in in prayer. I will defend my wife physically if I had too and I will also defend her spiritually as well. That’s the most difficult battle.

Thank you everyone for your continued prayers!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

That’s a very positive experience for both of you.

I will keep your family in my prayers.

 

[speakttruth]

Dear Saturn,
Here’s another thought,
Spray holy water and holy salt all around the house and around the computer where she sits and in her food. That will help St. Michael. Also put a green scapular near her. That will help for her conversion too. I put one in my son’s car and it’s kept him from near misses.
Our lady is very powerful too.
GB

My wife and I had a wonderful “date night” last night!

I took her doing some things she hasn’t done for awhile. I could tell she was a little tense at the beginning of the evening, but I had resolved myself through prayer, that I was not going to let anything “feel” like a disappointment to me and then me sort of sabotage the evening!

I told myself to be the man I was when we first met, talkative, funny, generous, complimentary, etc. By the end of the evening we were both laughing and have a fun time!

When we got home, I was careful to make sure I didn’t exhibit anything like I expected any kind of physical intimacy either. I basically kissed her goodnight, told her I had fun (She said she did too) and crawled in bed next to her content of having a fun evening.

Now I know one fun date night, does not a marriage make. I know there is a long road ahead. I just pray for strength and wisdom for both my wife and me. For her to open herself to the forgiveness and love of Christ and for me the strength and wisdom to persevere. I know the enemy has got a strong hold her right now. I visualize in my prayers St. Michael doing battle all around our home at times. I hear the ring of his saber as he sends another demon back the depths. It is a battle that I want participate in in prayer. I will defend my wife physically if I had too and I will also defend her spiritually as well. That’s the most difficult battle.

Thank you everyone for your continued prayers!

 

[Ophelia23]

Personally, I would advise confronting her with delicate sensitivity to her insecurities. When we sin against our God, He often times gently reminds us of His love and in turn of his heartache. You mentioned that you are working to love your wife as Christ loves His Church, which is such a lovely thing! Try to keep in mind how Christ shepherds His people when we are astray and pray for His guiding hand in this. You are the shepherd to your wife in this situation. This lamb is in the thorns, and you really must get her back to safety… for her sake even more than for yours.

You sound like a wonderful husband. My prayers go to you and your family during this very difficult time! :console:

 

[Saturn5]

Dear Saturn,
Here’s another thought,
Spray holy water and holy salt all around the house and around the computer where she sits and in her food. That will help St. Michael. Also put a green scapular near her. That will help for her conversion too. I put one in my son’s car and it’s kept him from near misses.
Our lady is very powerful too.
GB

Thank you for the great suggestions. I did get some holy water yesterday and I will bring some salt for our priest to bless this weekend after Mass. I’ve been doing Rosary’s and it’s helped me immensely as well!

 

[Saturn5]

Personally, I would advise confronting her with delicate sensitivity to her insecurities. When we sin against our God, He often times gently reminds us of His love and in turn of his heartache. You mentioned that you are working to love your wife as Christ loves His Church, which is such a lovely thing! Try to keep in mind how Christ shepherds His people when we are astray and pray for His guiding hand in this. You are the shepherd to your wife in this situation. This lamb is in the thorns, and you really must get her back to safety… for her sake even more than for yours.

You sound like a wonderful husband. My prayers go to you and your family during this very difficult time! :console:

You are too kind…I can tell you I certainly have my faults, and thank you for your prayers. They help so much!

I agree with you more for her sake than mine. In all of this, I also finally had the understanding of what unconditional love and the vocation of marriage meant. I think it is easy for men to feel like the “protector” of their wives physically. If someone was to be mean to our wives, I think that would get any husband’s dander up. I think that helps fuel men’s love having that feeling of being the family defender. But in general, we fail to see when the attack is spiritual. I can blame that on a variety of reasons, the continued rotting of our society, media, lack of faith or spiritual direction, etc, etc.

I mentioned in an earlier post, I am so happy that my wife told me what she did 3 years ago about loving me, but not being in love with me. It got me off my duff to examine what I was doing wrong in our relationship and how I needed to get closer to Christ to save my marriage. I knew there were problems in our marriage for years prior to that. But all I could focus on was fixing the marriage, not me. Now that I work on me and my faith, everything else becomes more clear and focused.

I take my job of helping my wife get to Heaven very seriously and you have so eloquently described it as her being the lamb in the thorns. She is delicate and trapped, both of us will get scraped or cut up a little getting out, me helping as gently as possible and her getting out. But in the end, those wounds will heal and we will both be better and stronger for it.

…I just continue to pray she will see and understand that is my motivation.