Do I have this right?

[JLSamuel818]

Adam and Eve ate the apple, did they die?

Lol, the bible says fruit, not apple.

Actually, we don’t know what kind of fruit it really is , all we know is that it’s just a fruit.

 

[Ghoti]

Lol, the bible says fruit, not apple.

Actually, we don’t know what kind of fruit it really is , all we know is that it’s just a fruit.

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, “apple” is not a bad translation: originally, apple just meant fruit in general, and later acquired the meaning of specifically Bill Tell’s kid’s hat. Sort of, IIRC, “meat” meant food in general, “deer” meant animals in general, etc.

 

[baylee]

However, with orgasm, the man must ejaculate within the woman. It is acceptable for the husband to bring the woman to orgasm outside of the act if she has not yet done so by the time he ejaculates.

And what happens when the woman orgasms and the man does not/can not. Is he expected to go without? It seems as if every sexual act is expected to be perfect…all tied up in a neat little bow…but that’s not how things happen sometimes (no matter how hard you try to make it so). We’re human, not mechanical robots.

 

[JLSamuel818]

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, “apple” is not a bad translation: originally, apple just meant fruit in general, and later acquired the meaning of specifically Bill Tell’s kid’s hat. Sort of, IIRC, “meat” meant food in general, “deer” meant animals in general, etc.

Really? Did not know that. Thanks for the correction.

And what happens when the woman orgasms and the man does not/can not. Is he expected to go without? It seems as if every sexual act is expected to be perfect…all tied up in a neat little bow…but that’s not how things happen sometimes (no matter how hard you try to make it so). We’re human, not mechanical robots.

*Lol, what a topic. Then either the man stops, or the wife I would assume helps him reach his orgasm by other methods if desired, right before ejaculation the husband should insert his penis inside the woman’s womb to finish in a pro-creative manner.

There, plain and simple. Again, what a topic. Lol.*

 

[TLM08]

OK… lets back up even more… when Adam and Eve ate the apple, did they die? How? Sprititually or physically? They ate the apple and lived, but not exactly.

I agree, he wasn’t in trouble with God for not havning sex. But when he did it in this manner, he thumbed his nose to God. Thumb your nose all you want. It’s your choice! The Church doesn’t hold a gun to your head. If you don’t feel it necessary of living properly chastity in marriage, go have an apple. It won’t *kill *you.

We try and try to explain, but you don’t even try to listen. How YOU and your wife want to have sex is up to you. We will TRY to explain to those that will listen why the church guides us as she does, but again, your continued anti-Catholic spewing here is very annoying.

Adam and Eve have absolutely nothing to do with the story of Onan and Tamar. Simply put, Onan wanted to “score” with Tamar. He had no intention of fulfilling his obligation to carry on his brother’s name. To completely ignore this fact is a dishonest interpretation of the text.

Building an all encompassing doctrine centered on “semen rules” for married couples was not what the Holy Spirit had in mind when he inspired the writer of the Book of Genesis. I am only saying that “semen rules” for married couples are not biblical. Onan’s crime seems to be far more involved than an ejaculation that missed the proper target.

 

[newbetx]

… Simply put, Onan wanted to “score” with Tamar. He had no intention of fulfilling his obligation to carry on his brother’s name. To completely ignore this fact is a dishonest interpretation of the text.

…Onan’s crime seems to be far more involved than an ejaculation that missed the proper target.

We all agree with the above. No issue. Onan’s act was nothing more or less than contracepted sex.

Adam and Eve have absolutely nothing to do with the story of Onan and Tamar. …
Building an all encompassing doctrine centered on “semen rules” for married couples was not what the Holy Spirit had in mind when he inspired the writer of the Book of Genesis. I am only saying that “semen rules” for married couples are not biblical.

Says you.

I’m impressed you know so much about what the Holy Spirit intended thousands of years ago. :bowdown2:

It’s not about “semen rules.” It’s about a properly ordered expresion of love. If one and one’s wife prefer semen somewhere else, it’s up to the couple. It’s not consistant with TOB which IS scriptural, but then YOU continue to claim to know more about the bible than the pope does…

 

[Jennifer_J]

Adam and Eve have absolutely nothing to do with the story of Onan and Tamar. Simply put, Onan wanted to “score” with Tamar. He had no intention of fulfilling his obligation to carry on his brother’s name. To completely ignore this fact is a dishonest interpretation of the text.

Building an all encompassing doctrine centered on “semen rules” for married couples was not what the Holy Spirit had in mind when he inspired the writer of the Book of Genesis. I am only saying that “semen rules” for married couples are not biblical. Onan’s crime seems to be far more involved than an ejaculation that missed the proper target.

Actually, I think Onan thought he could fool God by “going through the motions”. But, you can’t fool God. He was punished severely (just like Adam and Eve) for disobeying AND trying to hide what he was doing.

These “rules” are based on the fact that sex happens in a specific way for it to be procreative, whether a woman/man is fertile or not. This specific way is the norm–how God created it and the full expression of the sacramental marital act. When the act is altered, it diminishes or even takes away the sacramental nature of the act.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Actually, I think Onan thought he could fool God by “going through the motions”. But, you can’t fool God. He was punished severely (just like Adam and Eve) for disobeying AND trying to hide what he was doing PLUS misusing his sexuality. .

These “rules” are based on the fact that sex happens in a specific way for it to be procreative, whether a woman/man is fertile or not. This specific way is the norm–how God created it and the full expression of the sacramental marital act. When the act is altered, it diminishes or even takes away the sacramental nature of the act.

Ack, too late to edit…see addition above

 

[baylee]

*Lol, what a topic. Then either the man stops, or the wife I would assume helps him reach his orgasm by other methods if desired, right before ejaculation the husband should insert his penis inside the woman’s womb to finish in a pro-creative manner.

There, plain and simple. Again, what a topic. Lol*.

I’m sorry, but I didn’t think there was anything funny about this topic. I find the "lol"ing quite inappropriate.

 

[JLSamuel818]

*Lol, what a topic. Then either the man stops, or the wife I would assume helps him reach his orgasm by other methods if desired, right before ejaculation the husband should insert his penis inside the woman’s womb to finish in a pro-creative manner.

There, plain and simple. Again, what a topic. Lol*.

I’m sorry, but I didn’t think there was anything funny about this topic. I find the "lol"ing quite inappropriate.

I apologize if If you took offense to my comment. Please know it was not my intention for you, or anyone to be offended.

Please understand that I’m trying to stress that just as the wife is subordinate to his husbands desires, so too the husband must be subordinate to his wife with her desires.

Both should be willing, and happy to perform such acts together. They are both one flesh, and should not be ashamed of performing with each other, whether the man finishes first, or the woman. Both should be with glee, happy to please one another.

Do you understand me?

To my “lol”. I was laughing because I never come across such a question. Though you may not have found it a little funny of the question, I’m sorry.

Please accept my apologies.

With much respect and love toward you Baylee,
_[Samuel]

 

[Spirithound]

And what happens when the woman orgasms and the man does not/can not. Is he expected to go without?

What do you mean by this? If the wife achieves orgasm, I don’t think there is anything particularly preventing the husband’s orgasm. He may, in fact, bring his wife to multiple orgasms, which I understand is a very pleasurable experience.

If, however, the husband cannot orgasm inside of his wife, what makes you think it would be easier outside of her?

 

[TLM08]

Two things are clear to me:

1. The celibate men of the Church have a long history of intrusive preoccupation with one of life’s most intense physical pleasures, and that is the sexual experience between married couples.
2. Western culture in rebellion, has developed a polar opposite reaction where it is common for people to have the sexual morals of a sewer rat. Anybody… Anywhere… Anytime. The institution of marriage is dying.

As a side note from that is:
People are waiting longer to get married these days, but when that time comes, what young man in his right mind want any of these girls? Generally, the typical 28 year old woman has been to bed with at least dozen or more men. Of course there is a double standard. But that’s the reality!

It’s all very sad. Marriage is in trouble. Balance and perspective is badly needed.

 

[baylee]

I apologize if If you took offense to my comment. Please know it was not my intention for you, or anyone to be offended.

To my “lol”. I was laughing because I never come across such a question. Though you may not have found it a little funny of the question, I’m sorry.

Please accept my apologies.

I accept your apologies, but I think most who are married don’t find my question all that odd or funny.

Sex isn’t cookie cutter (which is what appears to be what most seem to think here)…it doesn’t always work the way you think it should work. There are variables that can affect whether one or the other orgasms…which I’d rather not get into here. It doesn’t necessarily mean there is anything wrong…it just happens (or doesn’t happen) that way.

I think to follow a one way or no way turns married sex into a mechanical, prescriptive process that must be followed a certain way. Everyone says procreative and unitive, but there is definitely a focus on the procreative piece in these posts…that the husband’s only purpose in sex is to give his semen…in a certain spot.

I’m finding it hard to explain my feelings here because they are so complex (and things can get pretty personal and I’m not willing to go there)…but do know that I struggle with them.

 

[baylee]

What do you mean by this? If the wife achieves orgasm, I don’t think there is anything particularly preventing the husband’s orgasm. He may, in fact, bring his wife to multiple orgasms, which I understand is a very pleasurable experience.

If, however, the husband cannot orgasm inside of his wife, what makes you think it would be easier outside of her?

Please see above post…I’d rather not get into more detail, but trust me, there are times when it is easier outside. It is normal for a man not to have the same response every single time.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Two things are clear to me:

1. The celibate men of the Church have a long history of intrusive preoccupation with one of life’s most intense physical pleasures, and that is the sexual experience between married couples.

:

And one thing is crystal clear to me, you don’t understand the sacramental nature of marriage and the sacramental nature of the marital embrace…SACRAMENTAL. We safeguard those things that are precious and our sexuality–which is directly tied to procreation is VERY precious. Those “Celibate Men of the Church” didn’t and don’t live in a vacuum and it’s insulting for you to say that they just want to be intrusive. Their goal is to get people to heaven–to save souls. Sexual sins are a good way to loose that salvation. What good can come from using other people in such a way? You said it yourself–our culture is ruining marriage because it has turned from thinking that sex is precious and special and set aside.

 

[chris_molter]

1. -]The celibate /-]men -]of the Church /-]have a long history of intrusive preoccupation with one of life’s most intense physical pleasures, and that is the sexual experience between married couples.

There. Fixed it for you.

 

[bilop]

I accept your apologies, but I think most who are married don’t find my question all that odd or funny.

Sex isn’t cookie cutter (which is what appears to be what most seem to think here)…it doesn’t always work the way you think it should work. There are variables that can affect whether one or the other orgasms…which I’d rather not get into here. It doesn’t necessarily mean there is anything wrong…it just happens (or doesn’t happen) that way.

I think to follow a one way or no way turns married sex into a mechanical, prescriptive process that must be followed a certain way. Everyone says procreative and unitive, but there is definitely a focus on the procreative piece in these posts…that the husband’s only purpose in sex is to give his semen…in a certain spot.

I’m finding it hard to explain my feelings here because they are so complex (and things can get pretty personal and I’m not willing to go there)…but do know that I struggle with them.

If, on occasion, a man can’t complete the act (not doesn’t want to, actually can’t) in the intened way, he and his wife can stop the act. This is similar to being interupted in the act by an emergency or something. It is not sinful as long as he intended to complete it when he started.

God Bless

 

[Spirithound]

1. The celibate men of the Church have a long history of intrusive preoccupation with one of life’s most intense physical pleasures, and that is the sexual experience between married couples.
2. Western culture in rebellion, has developed a polar opposite reaction where it is common for people to have the sexual morals of a sewer rat. Anybody… Anywhere… Anytime. The institution of marriage is dying.

As a side note from that is:
People are waiting longer to get married these days, but when that time comes, what young man in his right mind want any of these girls? Generally, the typical 28 year old woman has been to bed with at least dozen or more men. Of course there is a double standard. But that’s the reality!

It’s all very sad. Marriage is in trouble. Balance and perspective is badly needed.

Don’t you see that “1)” is the antidote to the rest of your observations? If the Church doesn’t teach how to deal with this most intense physical pleasure, we the people run a serious risk of becoming addicted to it.

 

[newbetx]

Two things are clear to me:

1. The celibate men of the Church have a long history of intrusive preoccupation with one of life’s most intense physical pleasures, and that is the sexual experience between married couples.
2. Western culture in rebellion, has developed a polar opposite reaction where it is common for people to have the sexual morals of a sewer rat. Anybody… Anywhere… Anytime. The institution of marriage is dying.

As a side note from that is:
People are waiting longer to get married these days, but when that time comes, what young man in his right mind want any of these girls? Generally, the typical 28 year old woman has been to bed with at least dozen or more men. Of course there is a double standard. But that’s the reality!

It’s all very sad. Marriage is in trouble. Balance and perspective is badly needed.

I have to agree with you. Marriage and the family it creates and supports is dying… and so is the society that nurtures it. But all hope is not lost.

As for you first point, I once thought that too. Then JP II showed us door number 3. I can not describe my transformation of faith that it provided. I sure wish I understood why you object so much to TOB.

 

[newbetx]

I accept your apologies, but I think most who are married don’t find my question all that odd or funny.

Sex isn’t cookie cutter (which is what appears to be what most seem to think here)…it doesn’t always work the way you think it should work. There are variables that can affect whether one or the other orgasms…which I’d rather not get into here. It doesn’t necessarily mean there is anything wrong…it just happens (or doesn’t happen) that way.

I think to follow a one way or no way turns married sex into a mechanical, prescriptive process that must be followed a certain way. Everyone says procreative and unitive, but there is definitely a focus on the procreative piece in these posts…that the husband’s only purpose in sex is to give his semen…in a certain spot.

I’m finding it hard to explain my feelings here because they are so complex (and things can get pretty personal and I’m not willing to go there)…but do know that I struggle with them.

I, too, thought this quite a silly requirement… And now I continue to urge poeple to look into the Theology of the Body. Take it or leave it. It is your chioce. But it explains the “why” about the “rules”.

As the old question goes… “Are you making love or having sex?”