Do I have this right?

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Ella

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Anytime a man wilfully ejaculates outside of his wife’s vagina, he is commiting a sin?

This is one of those things that has me in the cafeteria. I am trying, it seems absurd.
 
So where is the more appropriate place to “finish,” and why? If sex is a gift from God, how does one justify changing the intent of the gift?
 
Ella said:
Anytime a man wilfully ejaculates outside of his wife’s vagina, he is commiting a sin?

This is one of those things that has me in the cafeteria. I am trying, it seems absurd.
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Why does it seem absurd?

The purpose of sex is twofold: the unity of the married couple and procreation. Both ends must be served in order for a sexual act to be morally correct.

If either end is missing, the act is illicit.

God Bless
 
Ella said:
Anytime a man wilfully ejaculates outside of his wife’s vagina, he is commiting a sin?

This is one of those things that has me in the cafeteria. I am trying, it seems absurd.
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Well, you could start with the biblical sin of Onan, and extrapolate from there. But this is hypothetical, and the love of God and the love God has for you is NOT hypothetical.
 
Spirithound said:
To the whole Catholic Church, and very likely all Protestants before 1930, but many of them still hold to it.
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Which ones still hold to it? What about the Orthedox? Or Jews?

And to be a bit clearer, I am referring to a situation between a married couple.
 
Ella said:
Anytime a man wilfully ejaculates outside of his wife’s vagina, he is commiting a sin?

This is one of those things that has me in the cafeteria. I am trying, it seems absurd.
Click to expand...
I am in complete agreement with you Ella. The Bible is silent about this topic. There was a lot more to Onan’s story than “pulling out”.

😉
 
Baloo said:
Yes, he is committing a sin because it isn’t natural.
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Doing CPR on a dead man isn’t natural either but the church says that’s okay. Perhaps that’s because CPR doesn’t involve pleasure.

👍
 
TLM08 said:
I am in complete agreement with you Ella. The Bible is silent about this topic. There was a lot more to Onan’s story than “pulling out”.

😉
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See **Fr. John Echert’s **extensive quotations from various Reformation leaders on this in EWTN Experts today. For example
Martin Luther declared: “The exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime.”.
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Ella said:
Anytime a man wilfully ejaculates outside of his wife’s vagina, he is commiting a sin?

This is one of those things that has me in the cafeteria. I am trying, it seems absurd.
Click to expand...
You should read “The Good News About Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West. It is based upon JPII’s teaching on the dignity of the human person and the role of sexual intimacy in God’s plan. It will answer all of your questions.

Peace.
 
TLM08 said:
Doing CPR on a dead man isn’t natural either but the church says that’s okay. Perhaps that’s because CPR doesn’t involve pleasure.

👍
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That’s an absolutely invalid comparison. A person who can be CPR-ed is not dead. He is in the process of dying. If a stranger drops on the floor and you know how to do CPR, you are obliged to help him.

As for finishing elsewhere than in the vagina, that is contraception. There are also other issues involved, but helpful questions include: “Why not finish in the vagina?” and, “Why do I want to finish where I want to finish?”
 
chevalier said:
That’s an absolutely invalid comparison. A person who can be CPR-ed is not dead. He is in the process of dying. If a stranger drops on the floor and you know how to do CPR, you are obliged to help him.

As for finishing elsewhere than in the vagina, that is contraception. There are also other issues involved, but helpful questions include: “Why not finish in the vagina?” and, “Why do I want to finish where I want to finish?”
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That’s not an invalid comparison. CPR is an interruption of the natural dying process by artificial means.

Maybe the man and woman have 4 children already and are on the verge of losing their jobs due to the recession. Under those circumstances perhaps “pulling out” is done in the best interest of the children already depending on you for food, clothing, shelter, education and medical care.

:cool:
 
TLM08 said:
T

Maybe the man and woman have 4 children already and are on the verge of losing their jobs due to the recession. Under those circumstances perhaps “pulling out” is done in the best interest of the children already depending on you for food, clothing, shelter, education and medical care.
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Then why not just abstain? We aren’t animals. We can know when we’re fertile and when we’re not and choose to act accordingly based on our circumstances.
 
Let me clarify a bit more. The hypothetical couple do not wish to contracept. But they wish to enjoy oral sex.
It is possible that a couple who is open to life could also wish to enjoy oral sex. This insistence that every ejaculation must be in the vagina of his wife is, well, weird. I am not aware of any Protestant, Orthedox, or Jewish rules in this specific matter. Would like to find out if it is unique to Catholicism.
 
A little twist on the question, if a couple has normal relations and then goes ahead and participates in oral relations…
 
TLM08 said:
That’s not an invalid comparison. CPR is an interruption of the natural dying process by artificial means.
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By that argument you shouldn’t take any medication.
Maybe the man and woman have 4 children already and are on the verge of losing their jobs due to the recession. Under those circumstances perhaps “pulling out” is done in the best interest of the children already depending on you for food, clothing, shelter, education and medical care.

:cool:
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That’s not as brilliant as you think it is, actually. That situation sounds like a justifiable reason for NFP, but there is never a justifiable reason for contraception.

Short helpful reading: here
 
Ella said:
Let me clarify a bit more. The hypothetical couple do not wish to contracept. But they wish to enjoy oral sex.
It is possible that a couple who is open to life could also wish to enjoy oral sex. This insistence that every ejaculation must be in the vagina of his wife is, well, weird. I am not aware of any Protestant, Orthedox, or Jewish rules in this specific matter. Would like to find out if it is unique to Catholicism.
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Being generally open to life does not give licence to not being open to life at certain times. This means ejaculation in the mouth is still never fine. Mere stimulation by the mouth, with ejaculation in the vagina, is a different matter and is not morally forbidden.
Newbie2 said:
A little twist on the question, if a couple has normal relations and then goes ahead and participates in oral relations…
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Still wrong if ejaculation is outside the vagina on purpose.
 
Ella said:
Anytime a man wilfully ejaculates outside of his wife’s vagina, he is commiting a sin?

This is one of those things that has me in the cafeteria. I am trying, it seems absurd.
Click to expand...
Wet dreams ?
 
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