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nick_adams
Guest
im not sure if this is the right place to ask this but i was baptized in the holy apostolic catholic assyrian chruch of the east and i am not sure if i have to convert into the roman church
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King_Lazy
Guest
The Assyrian Church of the East is not in communion with the Catholic Church. The related Chaldean Catholic Church is in communion with the Catholic Church.
Your baptism is completely valid, but I’d imagine you would still have to go through some process of conversion, yes.
Your baptism is completely valid, but I’d imagine you would still have to go through some process of conversion, yes.
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St_Francis
Guest
The church you mentioned is not in union with the Pope, Christ’s Vicar on Earth. You would need to convert to Catholicism (no need for the “Roman”) if you want to be in union with the Pope.
There are 23 (iirc) particular churches within the Catholic Church, including the Latin with which most are familiar, the Byzantine, and one which might be of interest to you: the Syriac Catholic Church–I think it sounds closest to your current one.
If you look up Catholic Church on Wikipedia, it has information about the particular churches, with links (on the right) to articles about them.
There are 23 (iirc) particular churches within the Catholic Church, including the Latin with which most are familiar, the Byzantine, and one which might be of interest to you: the Syriac Catholic Church–I think it sounds closest to your current one.
If you look up Catholic Church on Wikipedia, it has information about the particular churches, with links (on the right) to articles about them.
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1ke
Guest
Typically those Christians who come from a true particular Church with valid apostolic succession and valid holy orders simply make a profession of faith and you are Catholic. You would be Chaldean Catholic, but if no Chaldean Church were nearby you could worship in any of the Catholic Rites.
Since you have already received all three sacraments of initiation, there really isn’t a “conversion”, just a profession of faith stating you are seeking full communion into the Catholic Church.
I suggest you go over to the Eastern Catholic forum on this site and ask questions there. The folks that are on that forum are much more familiar with those from eastern Churches wanting to come into full communion with the Catholic Church.
Since you have already received all three sacraments of initiation, there really isn’t a “conversion”, just a profession of faith stating you are seeking full communion into the Catholic Church.
I suggest you go over to the Eastern Catholic forum on this site and ask questions there. The folks that are on that forum are much more familiar with those from eastern Churches wanting to come into full communion with the Catholic Church.
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nick_adams
Guest
i was baptized in the apostolic catholic assyrian church of the east and i was wondering if i have to convert to the roman church
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MarkosC
Guest
Nick,
If you were baptized in the Church of the East (i.e. the real group with bishops both in the US and in Iraq), then you should have no problems moving (i.e. your baptism etc. are considered valid). I would urge you to respect the policies of the church of your baptism on this.
However, the only person who can give you an authoritative answer is the priest at your local parish. I would ask him and believe him before anyone you see online.
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5Loaves
Guest
Could you say more? I can’t tell from this what you are asking.
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nick_adams
Guest
well i follow the catholic church and i dont no if my church i was baptized with is in communion with them or if i have to convert to be
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ConstantineTG
Guest
You can move to the Chaldean Catholic Church
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5Loaves
Guest
Welcome to the Catholic Answers Forum CAF section.
Probably your baptism is valid. However the the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East does not appear to be a valid Orthodox Church.
It isn’t really a complicated thing to find out but your Catholic priest needs to have the tribunal in your Catholic diocese clarify the nature of your baptism and chrismation in the Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East.
If your chrismation was not valid due to the clergy of the Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East lacking the right to celebrate the sacrament then if you want to become Catholic you can be received into the Catholic Church, in any Catholic Church, like any other baptized Christian. That reception into the Church can happen as soon as those working with you determine you are ready. Christians (“candidates”) are received into the Church during any Mass, normally on a Sunday, but it can be on a weekday.
I’m sorry if this is too long. The main thing is to talk with your Catholic priest and he needs to then contact the tribunal to determine whether you can receive communion in your current situation. It is possible that you are not from an Orthodox Church that is recognized by the Orthodox nor the Catholics. If you want to come into the Catholic Church your priest can find out from the same tribunal exactly which Catholic Church you would be “ascribed into” regardless of which Catholic Church the rite of reception takes place in.
As a Christian (assuming your baptism is valid so you are a Christian) you would not “convert” if you decide to become Catholic. Christians are not converting when they become Catholic. You would only be received into full communion with the Catholic Church.
(Are you in the United States or in another country?)
I would encourage you to contact the priest at the Catholic Church you are going to.
Probably your baptism is valid. However the the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East does not appear to be a valid Orthodox Church.
If, as it seems, the Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East in not a valid Orthodox Church then your Chrismation there would not be valid and you likely should not take communion.
It isn’t really a complicated thing to find out but your Catholic priest needs to have the tribunal in your Catholic diocese clarify the nature of your baptism and chrismation in the Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East.
If your chrismation was not valid due to the clergy of the Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East lacking the right to celebrate the sacrament then if you want to become Catholic you can be received into the Catholic Church, in any Catholic Church, like any other baptized Christian. That reception into the Church can happen as soon as those working with you determine you are ready. Christians (“candidates”) are received into the Church during any Mass, normally on a Sunday, but it can be on a weekday.
I’m sorry if this is too long. The main thing is to talk with your Catholic priest and he needs to then contact the tribunal to determine whether you can receive communion in your current situation. It is possible that you are not from an Orthodox Church that is recognized by the Orthodox nor the Catholics. If you want to come into the Catholic Church your priest can find out from the same tribunal exactly which Catholic Church you would be “ascribed into” regardless of which Catholic Church the rite of reception takes place in.
As a Christian (assuming your baptism is valid so you are a Christian) you would not “convert” if you decide to become Catholic. Christians are not converting when they become Catholic. You would only be received into full communion with the Catholic Church.
(Are you in the United States or in another country?)
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5Loaves
Guest
This is true.
It appears however that the Assyrian Church of the East is not in communion with any other churches, either Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, or Catholic. So while OP likely has a valid baptism and is therefore a Christian, the rest will need to be determined by the tribunal. The parish priest at the Catholic Church he goes to can make this contact and get this information clarified. It seems likely he would come in to the Catholic Church like and other Christian, by the Rite of Reception of Baptized Christians into the full Communion of the Catholic Church since he does not come from a valid Orthodox Church, but this is for the tribunal to determine.
Were OP coming from a valid Orthodox Church then as you say he would make a simple profession of faith and confession in order to be Catholic. And of course Orthodox may receive Eucharist in a Catholic Church (from the Catholic Church’s perspective, not necessarily from the Orthodox Church’s perspective), a question OP asked in the EC section.
And as to the wording of the OP’s question, Christians who come into the Catholic Church are not converting. They are only coming into full communion. Only someone who is not Christian converts when becoming Catholic.
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Vico
Guest
You can be received as a baptised non-Catholic and will automatically be enrolled in the Chaldean Catholic Church (unless for some reason your father, mother, or guardian that was responsible for your infant baptism was not Assyrian Church of the East).
There are valid sacraments in the Assyrian Church of the East, per the Vatican:4. Guidelines for admission to the Eucharist
Considering the liturgical tradition of the Assyrian Church of the East, the doctrinal clarification regarding the validity of the Anaphora of Addai and Mari, the contemporary context in which both Assyrian and Chaldean faithful are living, the appropriate regulations which are foreseen in official documents of the Catholic Church, and the process of rapprochement between the Chaldean Church and the Assyrian Church of the East, the following provision is made:
- When necessity requires, Assyrian faithful are permitted to participate and to receive Holy Communion in a Chaldean celebration of the Holy Eucharist; in the same way, Chaldean faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, are permitted to participate and to receive Holy Communion in an Assyrian celebration of the Holy Eucharist.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20011025_chiesa-caldea-assira_en.html
TITLE 17 - Baptized Non-Catholics Coming into Full Communion with the Catholic Church
Canon 896
Whether it is a group or an individual, no obligation except what is necessary can be imposed on the Christian faithful who have been baptized in non-Catholic Churches or ecclesial communities and who ask of their own to enter into full communion with the Catholic Church.
Canon 897
A member of the Christian faithful of an Eastern non-Catholic Church is to be received into the Catholic Church with only the profession of the Catholic faith, after doctrinal and spiritual preparation according to each one’s condition.
Canon 900
- One who has not yet completed his fourteenth year shall not be received if the parents are opposed to it.
- If from the same reception, grave inconveniences are foreseen either to the Church or to the person, the reception may be put off unless there is imminent danger of death.
Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.
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5Loaves
Guest
I find this further confusing. It sound like initially you say this is a Church with valid holy orders. In that case why would OP not come in to the Church as others of the Orthodox do, by a simple profession of faith and confession?
It sounds like you’re saying there were valid baptism and chrismation but that instead of the normal path for Orthodox in this case, he would come into full communion in the Rite of Reception of Baptized Christians into the full Communion of the Catholic Church, which is never used for Orthodox but is used for protestant Christians.
Were he to present himself to our RCIA we’d definitely want to get the directive from the tribunal staff as to the next step.
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Vico
Guest
Surely, the tribunal is requried to know these things (and hopefully they do).I find this further confusing. It sound like initially you say this is a Church with valid holy orders. In that case why would OP not come in to the Church as others of the Orthodox do, by a simple profession of faith and confession?
It sounds like you’re saying there were valid baptism and chrismation but that instead of the normal path for Orthodox in this case, he would come into full communion in the Rite of Reception of Baptized Christians into the full Communion of the Catholic Church, which is never used for Orthodox but is used for protestant Christians.
Were he to present himself to our RCIA we’d definitely want to get the directive from the tribunal staff as to the next step.
Something must be confusing there or you would not ask, so to clarify, I did not mention Chrismation or Rite of Reception.
In total agreement with what you said, the Assyrian Church of the East has valid Apostolic succession and Holy Mysteries so is an eastern non-Catholic, and therefore he would be received by profession of faith as an eastern non-Catholic, as given in the CCEO Canon 897 (which does not apply to members of ecclesial communities but to eastern non-Catholics), and per canon 35, would be ascribed to the corresponding Catholic Church sui iuris.
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nick_adams
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i am in the us i am going to talk to my priest thank you everyone for the answers
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chaldobyzantine
Guest
Based on recent history between the Chaldean Catholic Church and Assyrian Church of the East (led by Mar Dinkha IV), all the sacraments you have had in that church are valid. Likewise, you do not need to convert to receive the sacraments at a Chaldean Catholic church. You can talk to any Chaldean priest and I doubt they would deny you the Holy Qurbana, Anointing or Confession.
Did this answer your question, or are you asking if you want to become officially a member of the Latin-rite Roman Catholic Church?
I’m Chaldean and our language and liturgy is basically the same, plus many, many Assyrians are members of our parishes, so you are much more than welcome to go to our churches.
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Vico
Guest
I didn’t comment on the link and noticed there a statement that no preparation is requried before reception. But that is not actually true per the canons since is stated there that the priest may required some preparation as he deems necessary for the person.I find this further confusing. It sound like initially you say this is a Church with valid holy orders. In that case why would OP not come in to the Church as others of the Orthodox do, by a simple profession of faith and confession?
It sounds like you’re saying there were valid baptism and chrismation but that instead of the normal path for Orthodox in this case, he would come into full communion in the Rite of Reception of Baptized Christians into the full Communion of the Catholic Church, which is never used for Orthodox but is used for protestant Christians.
Were he to present himself to our RCIA we’d definitely want to get the directive from the tribunal staff as to the next step.
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nick_adams
Guest
i follow the roman catholic church and i am tryin to find out if i am fully in communion with the church
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LilyM
Guest
The Chaldean Catholic Church and the Latin Catholic Church are BOTH Roman Catholic Churches since both are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome, aka the Pope. Members of one can worship and commune in the other.
But they are not exactly the same, and what you have to do and where you have to go to be received may depend on whether you want to join the Latin or Chaldean Church.
Really, the priest at your church will be the best person to answer these questions for you.
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Vico
Guest
You may not know that there are 23 Catholic Churches all in communion with the Pope. The Latin Church and 22 eastern Catholic Churches. These eastern Catholic Churches are not the same as the Assyrian Church of the East, the six Oriental Orthodox churches, or the many Eastern Orthodox churches, for those are not in full communion with the Pope.
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