Do I need the magesterium to teach me the meaning of this verse?

[NoelFitz]

LilyM

A commission comprised of who though?

Thank you for your reply to me.
I quote from Wikipedai:

In 1963 Pope John XXIII established a commission of six European non-theologians to study questions of birth control and population.[3][4] After John’s death in 1963, Pope Paul VI added theologians to the commission and over three years expanded it to 72 members from five continents (including 16 theologians, 13 physicians and 5 women, with an executive committee of 9 bishops and 7 cardinals).[3][4] The commission produced a report in 1966, proposing that artificial birth control was not intrinsically evil and that Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves about the methods to be employed.[3][4][5][6]

In fact there is a very fair discussion in Wikipedia, which may interest you (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanae_Vitae)).

 

[fhansen]

LilyM

Thank you for your reply to me.
I quote from Wikipedai:

In fact there is a very fair discussion in Wikipedia, which may interest you (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanae_Vitae)).

It’s important to remember that majority opinion has nothing to do with truth in matters of faith and morals. We’d have no need for the Church and her authority if it did. The Arian controversy, for example, is a case where, at one time, a belief was promulgated by leaders and held by a huge part of the Christian community but was later to be defined as heretical.

 

[NoelFitz]

It’s important to remember that majority opinion has nothing to do with truth in matters of faith and morals.

Vox populi vox dei.

The voice of the people is the voice of God.

While most Catholic doctrines and theological teachings either originate in scripture or are established by the higher levels of the Church hierarchy, sensus fidelium works from the ground up, from the beliefs of the masses of the faithful, as inspired by the Holy Spirit left by Jesus Christ to guide the faithful at large within the framework of the Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that:

Christ . . . fulfills this prophetic office, not only by the hierarchy . . . but also by the laity. He accordingly both establishes them as witnesses and provides them with the sense of the faith [sensus fidei] and the grace of the word[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensus_fidelium

 

[fhansen]

Vox populi vox dei.

The voice of the people is the voice of God.

Certainly the whole Church is to be changed by the gospel but the ideal is not always so well realized. The problem to me with this is that, if vox populi is taken as the exclusive rule of faith, contraception might be allowed now, possibly along with abortion, Arianism, and a host of other popular ideas. We have no need for the Magistereum, or the Church, herself, for that matter, unless they are educating us as to the will of God.

 

[NoelFitz]

The problem to me with this is that, if vox populi is taken as the exclusive rule of faith, contraception might be allowed now, possibly along with abortion, Arianism, and a host of other popular ideas.

Arianism is a bad example to show the importance of the magiasterium, since most senior clergy suppored Arianism. It was the ordinary people who defended the divinity of Christ.

It must be admitted that as well as the ordinary faithful Athanasius stood against the prevaioling opinion among senior church-men and the prevailing beliefs. Athanasius contra mundum.

 

[po18guy]

With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you

The magisterium, by the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, can provide the why. That is useful for the deepening of your faith. Much of the OT and NT do not need interpretation, being written in plain language. But, it remains those verses that do need authoritative interpretation which cause the greatest division and thus, brought Kephas’ warning in 2 Peter 1:19-20.

Christ’s peace.

 

[fhansen]

Arianism is a bad example to show the importance of the magiasterium, since most senior clergy suppored Arianism. It was the ordinary people who defended the divinity of Christ.

It must be admitted that as well as the ordinary faithful Athanasius stood against the prevaioling opinion among senior church-men and the prevailing beliefs. Athanasius contra mundum.

The word “magistereum” refers, not first and foremost to a collection of individuals so much as to an office- the teaching authority of the Church as led and guided by the Holy Spirit. We’re guaranteed that, regardless of how people, whether the ordinary faithful, erudite scholars, bishops, cardinals, or the Pope, himself, believe, God will have his way and nothing will be added to or taken from the deposit of faith He’s given us.

 

[packermann]

With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magsterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you

You are misunderstanding what is the purpose of the magisterium is. The purpose is not not to tell us what every single verse in scripture, but to settle controversies when there are different interpretations of scripture. The verse “Jesus wept” is pretty straight forward, so I doubt that there would ever be any need for the magisterium to get involved with this verse. The Catholic Church is like a big playground where we are free to roam as we will as long as we stay withing the boundaries established by the magisterium.

To give you an example, in terms of the predestination vs free will we are free to believe and teach whatever we want to, but we have to stay withing these boundaries:

1. We cannot hold to predestination to the point that we deny man has free will.
2. We cannot hold to predestination to the point that God will that everyone be saved.
3. We cannot hold to free will to the point that we deny that we are saved totally by God’s grace.

These are the boundaries. Protestants lack these boundaries, so Protestant predestinationists tend to make God into the author of evil and Protestant free-willists tend to fall into Pelagianism. What is worse, they tend to split from each other, and being isolated from each other they then construct their own man-made boundaries that are far more rigid than the Catholic boundaries. The Protestant predestinationists become so rigid that they not allow in the hint of free-will in their churches. And the free-willists will not allow even the hint of predestination.

Another controversey is the speaking of tonues. The Catholics Church allows tremendous freedom in this issue. You are free to pray in tongues. You are free not to pray in tongues. The boundaries are:

1. You cannot say that everyone must speak in tongues.
2. You cannot say tonues is of the devil.

Again Protestant don’t have these broad boundaries, so Protestants ususually fall into extremes, and that they cut themselves off who think differently. As as Protestant, I wsas very frustrated by this. I was attracted to the chaismatic movement, but I felt uncomfortable about saying that everyone must speak in tongues. Onlym in the Catholic Church did I find the charismatics accepted and yet tongues was not pushed on everyone.

Again, the Catholic Church is a huge playground with broad boundaries.

 

[NoelFitz]

Packermann
You wrote:

1. We cannot hold to free will to the point that we deny that we are saved totally by God’s grace.

These are the boundaries. Protestants lack these boundaries.

Proestants believe in Sola Gratia. This is one of their fundamental beliefs.

Protestants do not deny that we are saved totally by God’s grace.

 

[DarkNight]

To Noel Fitz,

Last year was the first time I read about the “Birth Control Commission”. Unfortunately I can not find the specific article, it was most interesting because it contained an audio account by a married woman who participated in the commission. Listening to her illuminated the reality that the current ban was not as “divinely inspired” as I had been lead to believe.
I was able to locate a copy of her account

Confessions of a birth control commission Catholic - lay member of Vatican II commission
National Catholic Reporter, Dec 17, 1993, by Patty Crowley

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_n8_v30/ai_14682970

I thought you might be interested in reading her first hand account regarding this “secret” commission

Go with Love, Go with God