Do I need the magesterium to teach me the meaning of this verse?

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With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you
 
Well verses like those ones are indeed straightforward. That’s the reason that encyclicals and sections of the Catechism haven’t been written about what they mean. They are the rare exceptions, though, you must admit.

Even verses that, to Catholics at least, are straightforward on its face like ‘unless you eat the flesh of the son of Man and drink His blood you will have no life in you’, or ‘you are Peter (cephas) and on this rock (cephas) I will build my church (not churches)’ have been interpreted by non-Catholics in many varied and interesting ways.

But it’s quite clear that these verses CAN only mean one thing out of the many. Either the Eucharist is literally His flesh and blood and literally necessary to eternal life, or it is NOT literal and not absolutely necessary. Jesus didn’t mean both things. Either Peter IS the supreme head of the (one) church founded by Christ and thus the ultimate authority, or he isn’t, Jesus didn’t mean both things.

But how DO we determine what the true meaning is in these cases of conflict? Peter himself warns against private interpretation of scripture, the Ethiopian acknowledges that he needs someone of Philip’s apostolic authority to teach him its meaning, and Paul bids us look to the church, not self-interpretation, as the pillar and bulwark of all truth.

So while the Magisterium isn’t usually into micromanaging and setting down black and white definitions of every word of scripture, we do need to heed them when they tell us what verses like the two I’ve quoted mean.
 
Henning said:
With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you
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I doubt if the Magistereum would feel any need to interpret that one for you. It’s several other verses, like some in John 1, 3, or 6 or several in Romans and James, to name just a few, where we may need help because of the disagreement among generally sincere Christians of various stripes on theological issues related to passages found in these places
 
Yes, your personal interpretation would be inline with the Magisterial one. I can see how outside of Magisterial standards though one might have trouble identifying the precise nature of the meanings of words. For instance, in the story of Jonathan & David at their departure when it is said that “David wept the more,” the Hebrew term used here for the identical English translation of “wept” is “gadal,” which quite literally means “became great,” and could be used all the same to describe say something being large in physical size. But that isn’t the case there of course. Between Aramaic, Hebrew, and the Koine Classical Greek the Holy Scriptures were written in there is simply no 100% translations for some if not many contemporary English words. Therefore, the Magisterium over the 2,000 year long Ecclesial history has taken on the task of bringing the authentic Biblical interpretations to the people, preserved in Divine Revelation and Illumination by Jesus Christ, and presided over by the guidence of the Holy Spirit.
 
Henning said:
With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you
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This verse has Jesus showing a very human emotion. Notice how the very people who were there disputed amongst themselves what the action described actually “meant”. Some said “How He loved him!”, but others had perhaps just a touch of scorn, wondering why He who had caused the blind to see would weep at a situation which such a miracle-worker should be able to fix. Fast-forward a couple hundred years, and it seems quite plausible that some people may have used that verse to dispute Jesus’s divinity, since if He were God, He must have known that He would be able to raise Lazarus.
So, you are right that the literal meaning is indisputable, but you are wrong to dismiss the “why” as part of the interpretation.
 
Henning said:
With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you
Click to expand...
The Magisterium probably interprets it in the same way. The best way to interpret scripture is to take it at face value. It says what it says.
 
Henning said:
do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept
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No.

If you wanted the Magisterium to answer this question, where would you find it?

The Magisterium does not answer such questions.

I suppose one could look at the writings of the Pontifical Biblical Commission. But you will not get help there.

Alternatively you could look at the CCC. However John 11:34 and 11:39 are cited but not 11:35.
 
Henning said:
With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means:
Click to expand...
It depends on your background … and if you are a cradle Catholic. This has been said on the subject by Dennis Barton.

A Catholic does not accept doctrines as true because he judges the Bible to say so, but because his Church says they are the teachings of Christ. He studies and ponders scripture in order to deepen his understanding. A Protestant approaches the Bible in a different frame of mind and this needs to be remembered when studing together.

But, on the example you give … I don’t think we need a PBC or magesterial explanation. 😃
 
The three Earthy representatives of the Three Individual Persons of the Most Blessed Trinity are the Sacred Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium, and as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are inseperable, so too are these things. You are true that members of the One, True, Holy, Roman Catholic, & Apostolic - Christian Church accept an article of belief as doctrinally verified if it be one that the Official Magisterial Church Teachings expound them so to be. All Roman Catholics are to believe by mandate of the Faith that each and every single word of the Sacred Scriptures is literal and free from error, not just alone by Themselves as you say, as the “Sola Scriptura” persons do, but precisely also too because They are officially proclaimed by the Magisterial Church.
 
Henning said:
With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you
Click to expand...
Do *you *need their assistance with that verse? Possibly. 🤷 😉 😛

The point of Magisterium guidance when it comes to Holy Scripture is not that each and every verse requires us to go to some magisterial super-decoder-ring. However, private interpretation does get people in trouble, which is why Jesus left us His Church to guide us.
 
rlg94086 said:
Do *you *need their assistance with that verse? Possibly. 🤷 😉 😛

The point of Magisterium guidance when it comes to Holy Scripture is not that each and every verse requires us to go to some magisterial super-decoder-ring. However, private interpretation does get people in trouble, which is why Jesus left us His Church to guide us.
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Private interpretation definately entangles one in grave error! I commend you on saying this! All peoples should read and take close head to your words on this. This private interpreting is the terrific trouble that “PROTEST-ants” once caused, continue to cause, and will always inflict upon themselves if they do never abandon their folly. This is what happens when we stray even for an instant from the True Magisterium and Church. And is there really any one “PROTEST-ism;?” Anglicanism, Episcopalianism, Presbyterianism, Methodism, Calvanism, etc. … It doesn’t appear that there is, because the first err caused through private Reformation interpretation led to more and more, and swiftly seemingly innumerable “private interpretations,” errors within, without, and of themselves.
 
NoelFitz said:
Please explain what this means.

It seems odd to me.
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Dear NoelFitz,
What I meant by that was, say for a moment that the Magisterium did never exist and instead of three foundations of faith we were Divinely left only with the Holy Bible and Sacred Tradition right? Therefore, we as Christians would be obligated to believe everything that the Biblical Scriptures teach even without the interpretations of the Magisterium. If this were the case we would be more akin to the Protestants who are “Sola Scriptura,” but we still wouldn’t be quite that theologically bare, lacking the second indenspensible foundation of the Faith, Sacred Tradition. We are to take the Bible at face value, word-for-word literally, but in of course the cultural, Aramaic, Hebrew, and Koine Classical Greek contexts that It was written. This is why theological and Bible study is so integral. Moreover, just because the Magisterium declares a Scriptural truth does not mean that we only believe it because the Magisterium “says so,” but rather because it is of the Holy Scriptures which the Magisterium has received, as it wasn’t the Sacred Scriptures that received the Magisterium. The Magisterium doesn’t formulate, but rather interprets, clarifies, and declares Biblical truths. In conclusion, it is because a deposite of faith is presented in the Bible that the Magisterium declared, for the Magisterium can teach something that is not precisely Scripturally documented, but It cannot preach a truth in a Biblical context something that quite simply is not Scripturally mentioned.
 
Etruschi

Thank you for your clarification.

There still remains a problem.

How do I find out what the magisterium teaches about specific biblical passages?
 
NoelFitz said:
Etruschi

Thank you for your clarification.

There still remains a problem.

How do I find out what the magisterium teaches about specific biblical passages?
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One of the ways is to consult the biblical references index in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
Henning said:
. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you
Click to expand...
actually there are relatively few bible passages that the Church has interpreted as meaning one and only one thing, or for which a definitive interpretation has been promulgated. There are of course many scripture commentaries through the years published by good theologians and exegists with approved interpretations, but even these authors differ at times. In any case, most passages have multiple levels of meanings upon which various commentators have expounded.

no you don’t need a bible scholar to tell you the meaning of a straighforward verse, but you might to help you understand the fullness of meaning say in the passage from which this verse comes (resurrection of Lazarus).
 
Etruschi said:
The . All Roman Catholics are to believe by mandate of the Faith that each and every single word of the Sacred Scriptures is literal and free from error, ch.
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this is simply not true. we are not required to believe that scripture has a literal meaning only and to believe only that the literal words of scripture are the whole and entire truth. please read Mark Shea’s Makings Sense of Scripture-reading the bible as the apostle’s did --for a full and easy to understand explanation of the four sense of scripture, yes the other deeper spiritual meanings have their root in the literal meaning, but the literal meaning is not the beginning and the end of orthodox interpretation. If it were we would be reducing God to a purely human level of communication and ignoring the deeper higher spiritual senses of his revelation.
 
Henning said:
With respect to private interpretation of scripture: do I need the magesterium of the CC to teach me the interpretation of this simple (yet profound) verse ?

John 11:35 Jesus wept

Even without the magesterium I can tell what this verse means: it means that Jesus wept. Questions do arise like ‘why’, ‘where’, ‘when’ and are important. But their compoundings don’t take away from the basic meaning which is that “Jesus wept” means that Jesus wept. How do my interpretings of this particular straight-forward verse (or partial verses like “…Jesus stood…”) relate to the authority of the CC’s magesterium?

Thank you
Click to expand...
Do you find many people or denominations disputing over the meaning of that verse?
 
NoelFitz said:
Etruschi

Thank you for your clarification.

There still remains a problem.

How do I find out what the magisterium teaches about specific biblical passages?
Click to expand...
Oh dear:-) That is a toughy. Yes take not of DavidV’s advice on the Catechism Of The Catholic Church for one. Your question stirs in me interest of that as well.🙂 Thank you sincerey DavidV!
 
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