Do I need to confess how I drive?

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Back in the good old days of freedom and states rights, the federal Gov would withhold highway funds if you didn’t have a speed limit of 55. Montana, being the freedom loving realistic wonderful place it is, decided that they would “cave” to the powers that be and set their limit at 55. But… with a 5 dollar ticket. Payable on the spot in cash if you so wished. It wasn’t even called a speeding ticket. It was a waste if a natural resource ticket. Lol! I love Montana!
Obviously in today’s world wasting a natural resource would be one of the highest crimes in the country. Or our church for that matter.
 
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I have to disagree with you here. If everyone is going 65 to 70 in a 55 mph zone, the person going 55 is causing a blockage and distraction which can cause an accident–I mean, collision.
So it’s ok to break the law if everyone else is doing it?
 
Everybody breaks traffic laws. And some of them are no light matter. Others are not even immoral. Speeding is not immoral as long as it doesn’t endanger others or yourself. And in the case of traffic laws it’s a revenue issue, not a moral one. If you wish to not wear a seatbelt, you can buy that privilege. When you extrapolate laws for instance to rural settings there is no reason to follow them. And there is no enforcement or selective enforcement.
 
If the government doesn’t enforce it or cuts people slack, or it would be unreasonable or dangerous, yes, then it’s ok.
 
As far as I’m aware the Church teaches that we should obey secular laws unless they are unjust.

I’m not saying that I’ve never sped to stay with the flow of traffic, but technically that is breaking the law. In reality, you are supposed to stick to the speed limit regardless of “the flow of traffic”. If I am going at 60 and the car behind me chooses to drive too close to my bumper and rear-ends me…My insurance company is going to regard that as his fault. Not mine.
 
Fast starts at green lights can most surely cause accidents/endanger others. The gravity needs to be determined privately, but, this is a bad practice when operating a motor vehicle.
 
Hello.

Within the universe of driving, are you a safe and considerate driver? Are any of the things you’re doing endangering yourself or other drivers?

Do you do any car racing? Maybe that would be something to look into. Do you like to tinker with cars? It sounds like you like cars and driving, so maybe you could safely look for a way to explore this proclivity.
 
mostly tiny little inattentions.
How correlated are these tiny inattentions to speed? My guess, although I have no data to back it up, is that those who drive quicker are actually more attentive to the road, and have quicker reaction times.
 
If you really, really, really believe your argument, then don’t slow down upon the sight of patrol cars, and refuse to pay your tickets
I would argue that no one slows down at the sight of a patrol car because they suddenly start considering the morals of driving fast upon seeing them. The only consideration there is financial (avoiding a ticket), not any sort of belief that driving the speed limit is morally superior to driving over the speed limit. Therefore there is no logical inconsistency here.
 
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If Annie believed she was doing nothing wrong she would not slow down when she saw a patrol car because she was not doing anything wrong, but she does slow down because she is doing something wrong, willfully doing something wrong and knowing it is wrong but with disdain for the truth.
It has nothing to do with morality; it has to do with not wanting to be caught, which is immoral and unpatriotic if you consider that the law comes from the government.
 
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It has nothing to do with morality; it has to do with not wanting to be caught, which is immoral and unpatriotic if you consider that the law comes from the government.
It is immoral to not want to be caught? Do you want to be caught?
 
It has nothing to do with morality; it has to do with not wanting to be caught
This was precisely my point. Slowing down is not done because the driver believes that he was doing something immoral previously and the sight of an officer suddenly awakened his conscience (at least speaking for myself - I can only assume the same is true for most if not all). It has more to do with the fact that the officer is likely to see the speeding as something “wrong”, and is likely to act on it. It is possible that some may decide to stick it to the government in conscientious objection and continue speeding, but the fact that most don’t decide to do this does not support your point that they acknowledge the immorality of speeding as such.
 
I put “wrong” in quotations because I don’t think most police officers would consider speeding morally wrong either. It’s more of a revenue source than altruism I’d say. The existence in the US of things like civil asset forfeiture also support this view of profit-based policing.
 
It is immoral to speed, anarchy is the technical term for willfully denying the being of the State to legislate, and if you consider the conditions on the interstates, it is truly a mobocracy, as supported by the user above named Annie, where she calls the statute observers to be the immoral ones.
It is also immoral to conceal offenses from law enforcement, which is the reason of the sheepish feeling when you get away with it or even when caught. You are making yourself and the state into enemies, which is improper citizenship. And citizenship is the place of morality - the proper relationships of people within a society.

Speed if you wish, but it will make you are a hypocrite, where you have created the law in this nation of government of the people, and then despising the law as if someone villain imposed it upon you.

Police who think speeding is okay if done in moderation of the excess so it is not hyper speeding, are themselves of the same caliber as priests who abuse children - it is okay if no one talks about it or presses the issue.

No. A spade is a spade. Do what you will, but you will be always known as what you do.

John Martin
 
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Police who think speeding is okay if done in moderation of the excess so it is not hyper speeding, are themselves of the same caliber as priests who abuse children
That is an absolutely outrageous statement.
It is also immoral to conceal offenses from law enforcement, which is the reason of the sheepish feeling when you get away with it or even when caught.
Lying is immoral. Not revealing something is not necessarily. Desiring not to be penalized in itself is also not immoral - it is just human nature. If people didn’t have that desire, penalties would be useless as incentives.
 
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Speed if you wish, but it will make you are a hypocrite, where you have created the law in this nation of government of the people, and then despising the law as if someone villain imposed it upon you.
I created the law? I don’t think so.

Anyway, my previous point was less about defiance of the state (which I do believe is immoral except in certain specific instances where civil disobedience becomes a virtue), and more a direct answer to your argument that

People slow down when they see police therefore they must think that they are doing something wrong morally.

which I showed to be an illogical conclusion. This is illogical regardless of whether I personally think that speeding is immoral or not. My reason for pointing this out was to show that this behavioral pattern is a not a basis for assessing morality.

Personally I would assess it more like this: (to be continued)
 
A. Does the state have rightful authority in this matter? - sure, in our current system of publicly owned roads it does.
B. Fine, so the state itself is by and large* the measure of right/wrong in this case. Therefore, what does the state itself believe on this matter. The actual actions of state officials (police) become relevant:
a. it is common practise not to hand out speeding tickets for speeding < 15km over - almost no one takes the strict literal interpretation that going 1km over is a big deal - the actual line is subject to an officer’s judgement call
b. It is commonly understood that going with the flow of traffic is an important consideration, given that the primary purpose of the law is to ensure safety - this fact is commonly accepted by many police officers.
c. Given that no lives are endangered, there is no basis in natural law, or Church teaching for a given speed. The Church simply says follow the law of the land. A primary component of any law is enforcement. Given that minor speeding is almost never enforced, you can reasonably conclude that the state takes no serious issue with minor speeding violations.
d. as per safety, I would not be surprised if a buffer were built into the considerations for any given speed limit (ie: say the actual safe maximum in good conditions was determined to be 120km, and the buffer were ~ 20%, the speed limit would be set at 100, with the understanding that people would drive well under 120 under fear of being penalized.)
C. Granting that a given case of speeding is immoral, it is would definitely only be venial, unless there were some component of endangering life, in which case it could become grave matter. (I don’t think you specifically opined that speeding a given amount over was grave matter, but some have)
D. Reckless driving is a separate question, and may, or may not involve speeding. (Ex: cruising 30 over on a clear road with no traffic is much less dangerous than tailgating and driving erratically at 10 under in a blizzard. Arguably, the first is more likely to get you a ticket though…). Reckless driving could rise to the level of grave matter, while simply defying the state is a such a small matter would not.

My personal conclusion: Speeding in itself is not immoral unless you are endangering lives. However, the state reserves the right to penalize you, at which case you will have the moral duty to comply unless you are successfully able to challenge it in court. By speeding, you accept this risk.

*There are other considerations, such as the duty to not endanger life, which exists completely separately from any legislation
 
I am amazed at how many people on this thread think that unsafe driving (meaning breaking the laws of the road) is nothing to be concerned about because they think they are not driving unsafely. And yet, they are elsewhere on this site telling others how best to lead Catholic lives. It seems a little hypocritical in my eyes.
 
I have to disagree with you here. If everyone is going 65 to 70 in a 55 mph zone, the person going 55 is causing a blockage and distraction which can cause an accident–I mean, collision.
Just wanted to come back to this.

I checked this out and as far as I can see the “keeping with the flow of traffic” argument holds no weight in law. If the speed limit is 55, it’s each individual motorist’s job to stick to the limit. It doesn’t matter if Honky McTailgate is right behind you honking furiously, if you break the limit and get caught, you’ll get a ticket.

The dangerous driving in this case is not keeping to the legal limit, but driving faster than the limit, driving too close to the car in front, or dangerous overtaking.

Impatience doesn’t make it ok.
 
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